Are rates set to rise & is there a driver shortage?

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

HI All, I’m new to the forum and considering a career change into the LGV driver business. I’ve looked around a lot (this forum is great!) and would love to get some UP TO DATE pulse feedback from people in the industry, and not from training companies trying to separate me from my cash. After all, before I spend thousands of pounds getting my licences, I need to be sure I can get work and that I wouldn’t be better off stacking shelves in the local supermarket. There seems to be quite a bit of disparity in job rates, varying from about £8 per hour to £15+ an hour. Obviously an inexperienced driver will start at the bottom, and also struggle to even gain experience. But if there is a driver shortage, a new inexperienced driver should be be able to get their feet on the ladder, even if it is on low wages to start.

I’m aware that this topic has been discussed in detail before, so please forgive me. But I’d like to ask for up to date opinions and not rely on posts that are 3+ years old.

Logically (to me) all the new legislation and requirements (while they are a pain) SHOULD help improve pay rates in the industry. As it is taking what is considered (by many) an unskilled/semi-skilled job, and making it firmly by the very least a semi-skilled job that not just any Tom, ■■■■ or Harry can do after a couple of weeks training and a test. (Sorry to all Tom’s, ■■■■’s and Harry’s!) :smiley: - I think/believe this, as 25-30 years ago Gas fitters (and more recently Electricians), went through a period of regulation, and as a result have seen their jobs become more respected, protected and better paid. Would you agree/or not, that improved regulation (bureaucracy), while it is painful and currently hurting drivers, could ultimately be helpful to drivers, improve their pay and job security?

Additional to this, I have read that a few years ago there was a glut of foreign drivers flooding the UK driver market, and because of this driver wages remained low. I’ve also seen/read that this glut is now drying up, and as a result, there really is a shortage of drivers. Which hopefully (for the industry) improves wages, and for new inexperienced drivers, allows then to get a foot on the ladder. Is this true, or just something that cows produce that smells funny?

In summary (before I write an essay), I’d like to enter the industry, but don’t want to shell out thousands of pounds for a job that pays essentially minimum wage (Assuming I can even get a job, without the initial experience).

Thanks for anyone’s views in advance!

2

I would happily give you an honest answer - but I am one of the dreaded training companies!!

Seriously, happy to give impartial advice if you want it.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

3

Hi Pete,

Thanks for replying, I was starting to feel liker a leper and wondering why no one would talk to me! lol :unamused:

I’m interested in all opinions, good bad and ugly… But I guess above all else HONEST! - Besides, I doubt you (as a trainer) would be motivated to try and sell me your courses anyway, as I’m in Southampton.

To me, it look like the industry is pretty much at it’s lowest ebb, and currently wages are rubbish. This is obviously a supply and demand situation, and from what I read, while the wages are still low, the demand for drivers is high and climbing. This may not be not necessarily an ideal situation for experienced drivers (until wages rise), it may be good thing for newbie drivers, as they can get their foot in the door, gain experience and hopefully benefit (when, and if) wages go up.

I’m aware that you’re never going to earn a fortune driving a truck, but all I’m looking for is a reasonable wage and some job security.

Cheers,

Alan

4

Depends where you are sorry but my crystal ball broke

TBH there is not a real shortage of drivers more like a shortage of jobs but yep things are improving apart from wages here in the North East for Cat CE it can be anything from £7.00 ph up depends on the company for instance Fowler Welch in this area pay there drivers £7.75 ph but there is another company paying £500 pw but you will have to max your hours out with them & he struggles to get & keep drivers

All the legislation regulation dont necessarily make it better for all ( my uncle is a retired electrician still know a lot but not allowed to change a light switch in his house as he dont have the paper to say so, so just because they have the paper means not a lot as would trust him over a lot of sparky now no offence & yep this is with recent experience ) yep there was a glut of foreign drivers that came over some have stayed while other have gone back but no they arnt all bad I have met both good & bad in both tbh some of the ones that have helped me most are in fact the foreigners

It wont be easy getting a job as a newbie but not impossible as there are a lot of experienced drivers out there you will have to go out & look

After passing all the relevant licence you will have to replace it every 5 year after a medical ( sometimes at your expense ) digi card ( again your expense ) dcpc ( again your expense ) ok recently have had my medical £100 separate eye test I dont have to pay digi £19 have 21 hour dcpc so far £180 & that was cheap this is every 5 years btw

Although you said no trainers ask some of them on here for advice as most will give it with out the sales pitch as they know they are not allowed to do ( for your info ) they may say who to avoid mind like the rest of us

Please if you thinking of doing it avoid brokers go visit several trainers talk to them before parting with any cash

5

To me, it look like the industry is pretty much at it’s lowest ebb, and currently wages are rubbish. This is obviously a supply and demand situation, and from what I read, while the wages are still low, the demand for drivers is high and climbing. This may not be not necessarily an ideal situation for experienced drivers (until wages rise), it may be good thing for newbie drivers, as they can get their foot in the door, gain experience and hopefully benefit (when, and if) wages go up.

I’m aware that you’re never going to earn a fortune driving a truck, but all I’m looking for is a reasonable wage and some job security.

You’ve answered your own question beautifully except that I would argue that wages are not “rubbish”. Drivers earn a wage that varies no-end according to location, type of work, hours etc etc. There is no doubt that you can earn as much stacking shelves as some of the poorest paid drivers. But if you are prepared to put in the hours, do nights out and generally behave yourself, there’s decent living for you. Work it out by the hour and I suppose you could argue it’s still “rubbish”.

Driving is very much a lifestyle choice where you’ll earn a living - and a good one if you get to the right job. But it’s not a quick road to wealth and never has been.

There is as much (or as little) job security driving trucks as there is doing anything. For most, their security is from one wage packet to the next in any field of work.

So, to summarise, my honest answer is that if you want to do it, get on with it. If you need to earn loads of money to pay the bills, think of something else maybe.

Pete :laughing: :laughing: - - - and all that without any attempt at selling you a course!!!

6

Besides, I doubt you (as a trainer) would be motivated to try and sell me your courses anyway, as I’m in Southampton.

Clearly not aware of the amount of residential work we do!!

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

7

Thanks for the answers guys, and I’m just trying to clarify what state the industry is in right here and now before I take the plunge into something that will cost me thousands any may not even get me a start. I’m fully aware that without commitment the rewards will be limited, and it takes time to find the right job. My references to wages being rubbish, is not to scoff at them, but to say that no shelf stacker spends close to 3K to do their job, and at present I believe professional driving is underpaid considering the responsibility and consequences of driving an 18+ ton truck. A shelf stacker doesn’t have the concern of killing someone by dropping a tin of beans! Or lose their livelihood because of it either.

My query is more based around will a new INEXPERIENCED driver get a start, and are the rates of something above minimum wage realistic, and POSSIBLY set to rise.

I am in no way criticising, mocking or belittling the industry. Quite the opposite, as I think the job should be given greater respect.

8

Driving a truck covers a multitude of industries. A lot of people think it’s all about nights out and working the maximum hours in general haulage.

This is not the case you can find 8.00am-5pm jobs such as local authorities refuse and highways also you have the builders merchants and skips etc.

Treat it as an investment, I’m sure you will find a job to suit.

Good luck

Paul :smiley:

9

Inexperienced drivers do get a start provided they put the effort in. The start pay may not be attractive - - you have to prove yourself and make yourself valuable to the employer.

BTW, no need to spend £3k to drive an 18 tonner. For that money you should have class one and some change.

Look around - there are some good deals to be had.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

10

Can I ask what it is you do for a job now? If you are on minimum wage now and you can afford to train then it would be an investment in yourself. I’ve just passed my C and C+E this year and I’m now in the process of looking for my first job. I’m having a mixed reception as I expected I would, I’ve sent emails that have been unanswered , I’ve had emails saying to go thru the agency they deal with so they can have a look at me that way. Also I’ve had a couple of good leads with one big local firm letting me sit in with one of there drivers to see how things go, if nothing comes of that at least its a bit of experience.

What I’m trying to say is there hope for a new driver and when you get your foot thru the door you can earn decent money maybe not at first but with experience.

11

Just to give some hope: I’m a new driver and started on the same level of pay as the regular drivers who have been their donkeys years! There are companies who treat newbies equally :sunglasses:

12

Evil8Beezle:
HI All, I’m new to the forum and considering a career change into the LGV driver business. I’ve looked around a lot (this forum is great!) and would love to get some UP TO DATE pulse feedback from people in the industry, and not from training companies trying to separate me from my cash. After all, before I spend thousands of pounds getting my licences, I need to be sure I can get work and that I wouldn’t be better off stacking shelves in the local supermarket. There seems to be quite a bit of disparity in job rates, varying from about £8 per hour to £15+ an hour. Obviously an inexperienced driver will start at the bottom, and also struggle to even gain experience. But if there is a driver shortage, a new inexperienced driver should be be able to get their feet on the ladder, even if it is on low wages to start.

I’m aware that this topic has been discussed in detail before, so please forgive me. But I’d like to ask for up to date opinions and not rely on posts that are 3+ years old.

Logically (to me) all the new legislation and requirements (while they are a pain) SHOULD help improve pay rates in the industry. As it is taking what is considered (by many) an unskilled/semi-skilled job, and making it firmly by the very least a semi-skilled job that not just any Tom, ■■■■ or Harry can do after a couple of weeks training and a test. (Sorry to all Tom’s, ■■■■’s and Harry’s!) :smiley: - I think/believe this, as 25-30 years ago Gas fitters (and more recently Electricians), went through a period of regulation, and as a result have seen their jobs become more respected, protected and better paid. Would you agree/or not, that improved regulation (bureaucracy), while it is painful and currently hurting drivers, could ultimately be helpful to drivers, improve their pay and job security?

Additional to this, I have read that a few years ago there was a glut of foreign drivers flooding the UK driver market, and because of this driver wages remained low. I’ve also seen/read that this glut is now drying up, and as a result, there really is a shortage of drivers. Which hopefully (for the industry) improves wages, and for new inexperienced drivers, allows then to get a foot on the ladder. Is this true, or just something that cows produce that smells funny?

In summary (before I write an essay), I’d like to enter the industry, but don’t want to shell out thousands of pounds for a job that pays essentially minimum wage (Assuming I can even get a job, without the initial experience).

Thanks for anyone’s views in advance!

Unfortunately there are too many newbies flooding the industry that have shelled out thousands of pounds for their tickets and this is what is preventing rates from rising and there being any driver shortage.

13

Left hand down!:
Unfortunately there are too many newbies flooding the industry that have shelled out thousands of pounds for their tickets and this is what is preventing rates from rising and there being any driver shortage.

What a load of rubbish, can you actually prove there has been a flood of new drivers?
I have heard from local drivers in my area, that when the Cpc September deadline comes up, a lot of the older drivers are going to retire.

14

jimmie:

Left hand down!:
Unfortunately there are too many newbies flooding the industry that have shelled out thousands of pounds for their tickets and this is what is preventing rates from rising and there being any driver shortage.

What a load of rubbish, can you actually prove there has been a flood of new drivers?
I have heard from local drivers in my area, that when the Cpc September deadline comes up, a lot of the older drivers are going to retire.

Where? In your local RDC waiting room? It’s a load of old ■■■■. As I’ve said in the other thread on this, all the other old ■■■■■ talk a good story but after rattling around in the house for a fortnight they’ll be bored to tears so will rustle up the £300 needed, do the DCPC and then go back driving. I’ll bet you any money you like.

And there are tons of newbs flooding the industry. All the driver trainers on here report excellent thriving business and a day doesn’t go by without a fresh thread in the newbs section from people starting in the industry after moving from other trades.

15

Evil8Beezle:
There seems to be quite a bit of disparity in job rates, varying from about £8 per hour to £15+ an hour. Obviously an inexperienced driver will start at the bottom, and also struggle to even gain experience. But if there is a driver shortage, a new inexperienced driver should be be able to get their feet on the ladder, even if it is on low wages to start.

25-30 years ago Gas fitters (and more recently Electricians), went through a period of regulation, and as a result have seen their jobs become more respected, protected and better paid. Would you agree/or not, that improved regulation (bureaucracy), while it is painful and currently hurting drivers, could ultimately be helpful to drivers, improve their pay and job security?

Additional to this, I have read that a few years ago there was a glut of foreign drivers flooding the UK driver market, and because of this driver wages remained low. I’ve also seen/read that this glut is now drying up, and as a result, there really is a shortage of drivers. Which hopefully (for the industry) improves wages, and for new inexperienced drivers, allows then to get a foot on the ladder. Is this true, or just something that cows produce that smells funny?

In summary (before I write an essay), I’d like to enter the industry, but don’t want to shell out thousands of pounds for a job that pays essentially minimum wage (Assuming I can even get a job, without the initial experience).

Thanks for anyone’s views in advance!

Good sensible post.
Can I add a bit to the above answers?

Professional drivers seem to (very broadly) fit into two different categories. Those who want (or need) to make big money and those who will accept less income in return for a steady (maybe easy) job and sociable hours. I am in the second category, but maybe that is down to my age.

With regards to the ‘shortage of drivers’. This varies geographically. I moved from the North East (where Animal is based - hi Ang) to Essex last year. My experience is not great (just over a couple of years) and I have worked continually since I moved. The week after next I am on a CPC course (paid for by may employer) and on wages at the same time. Why? because they want to keep me working for them as they find it hard to recruit and keep drivers.

Other posters have commented on the increasing number of people learning to drive HGVs. This was certainly the case when the Job Centre was almost automatically sending unemployed people on HGV training courses. I don’t know if that is still happening though.
If you look at average driver ages it is obvious this is an mainly industry of ‘older’ people. A lot of us will be out in the next 5 to 10 years anyway.

Reference the CPC and comparing it to gas-fitters and electricians. That is a good point but remember the requirements for both these professions didn’t come in overnight - they were phased in. I suspect we will see the same with HGV drivers. I think there will be more to come after the CPC, but maybe not in my own driving career.

‘Foreign’ drivers coming to Britain is much like the 70s and 80s when British construction workers went to Germany. A lot worked there but not many chose to live there, and came home as the work in Britain picked-up. We will see the same here as overseas economies improve and drivers go ‘home’.

Personally, I would not (could not, even) work stacking shelves. As a driver I work on my own initiative, have no ‘factory politics’ to worry about and can ■■■■, sing, pick my nose, etc if I choose.
Would I encourage a young person to become a HGV driver? No, I would advise them to be a doctor or an engineer but I would advise HGV driving before I would advise factory work or shelf stacking.

16

Left hand down!:
And there are tons of newbs flooding the industry. All the driver trainers on here report excellent thriving business and a day doesn’t go by without a fresh thread in the newbs section from people starting in the industry after moving from other trades.

And how many of them walk straight into jobs? Hardly any.

If the rates are set deliberately low (which then refers to companies making money but not passing it on to employees) then how comes so many well established companies have hit the wall in recent years?

There is no money in the industry. The margins are tight, profit margins low. That’s the fact of it.
No driver shortage will ever see rates go up. There is no spare money in the pot simple as that.

17

Thanks to all who have added their 6 (or 7 eggs) into this thread, which (along with other threads) shows their isn’t much agreement/consensus on my questions.

From looking at another thread, there is even disagreement on whether newbie drivers should consider working for low/minimum wages. For me, starting on minimum wages is not the issue, as when you’re greener than grass, you can’t expect (or deserve) the same money as experienced drivers. Employers are taking a risk with inexperienced drivers, and need an incentive to do so while newbies make the inevitable mistakes. So I really don’t think you can get upset, if your not on the same money as an experienced driver. I suspect that some drivers will say that if newbie drivers didn’t accept working for lower wages, their own wages would be higher. But I really don’t want to spark that debate, as what would you have the newbies do, not work at all? And the only real/logical way wages will really rise, is if demand outstrips supply.

So the answers I’m looking for are: If I spend 2-3k training (to get C and C+E) will I be able to get a start? And once I’ve got some experience, will I be able to improve my wages as my experience grows?

18

Evil8Beezle:
Thanks to all who have added their 6 (or 7 eggs) into this thread, which (along with other threads) shows their isn’t much agreement/consensus on my questions.

From looking at another thread, there is even disagreement on whether newbie drivers should consider working for low/minimum wages. For me, starting on minimum wages is not the issue, as when you’re greener than grass, you can’t expect (or deserve) the same money as experienced drivers. Employers are taking a risk with inexperienced drivers, and need an incentive to do so while newbies make the inevitable mistakes. So I really don’t think you can get upset, if your not on the same money as an experienced driver. I suspect that some drivers will say that if newbie drivers didn’t accept working for lower wages, their own wages would be higher. But I really don’t want to spark that debate, as what would you have the newbies do, not work at all? And the only real/logical way wages will really rise, is if demand outstrips supply.

So the answers I’m looking for are: If I spend 2-3k training (to get C and C+E) will I be able to get a start? And once I’ve got some experience, will I be able to improve my wages as my experience grows?

I agree with everything you have said.

As for wages, depending on where you live, it may be possible to get better wages at a different company after a few years experience. I have just started at a big haulage firm here in Spalding, although wages are not great, the majority of drivers who have worked here a while have told me they do take care of the drivers, unlike other firms, who pay better wages but expect you to break the rules.