Zac_A:
stu675:
[The op says it’s LLCs not DVS
londoncouncils.gov.uk/servi … about-llcs
Which is only specific roads.I’ve found it best not to assume TN posters are pedantic or up to date about the words they use, just look at how many posts mention VOSA (nine years out of date), or even Vosser, which was never “a thing”.
I don’t think class 1 and 2 and even HGV will ever go out of common parlance.
I always wondered how “cameras” can tell one truck from another, when apparently a main road is “OK for firm A” to use, but “Firm B” using exactly the same road - is considered “Off Route” and likely to get fined in the manner described by OP here…?
I have often asked for a “Map for THIS firm I’m working at” to show the different routes permitted for THIS firm over another…
Example: Waitrose told me that “I must not use Shooter’s Hill Road” despite it being Main Road A2.
Other supermarkets - don’t seem to have this restriction, but I was told by them “Don’t use the A23 north of Streatham” which was OK to use @ Waitrose… 
FFS both are main truck routes, and how the hell are we supposed to know what’s good and what’s not - if no MAP is ever provided for the particular firm in question, seeing as the routes seem to be totally randomized among the many hauliers likely to need to use them on a daily basis…
Then there’s these “Forms” you fill out “If you deviate off the approved LBTS route”
Plenty of road works around likely to make you do THAT eh?
stu675:
Zac_A:
stu675:
[The op says it’s LLCs not DVS
londoncouncils.gov.uk/servi … about-llcs
Which is only specific roads.I’ve found it best not to assume TN posters are pedantic or up to date about the words they use, just look at how many posts mention VOSA (nine years out of date), or even Vosser, which was never “a thing”.
I don’t think class 1 and 2 and even HGV will ever go out of common parlance.
I’d also add EU Drivers Hours to that list, it’d take a generation to drop that monicker
Winseer:
I always wondered how “cameras” can tell one truck from another, when apparently a main road is “OK for firm A” to use, but “Firm B” using exactly the same road - is considered “Off Route” and likely to get fined in the manner described by OP here…??
London lorry control not done with cameras at the moment. I believe
It’s done by 5 people who work for llc. They are trying to get it done on anpr camera’s in the near future.
Big mistake they do use cameras been using them since 2021
transportxtra.com/publicati … rol-scheme
google.com/maps/@51.6123878 … 384!8i8192
And the opposite direction at the junction of Green Lanes and the A 406
Are we talking about traversing the A406 here, E/W or turning into the Palmer’s Green road from the A406?
It makes sense to avoid the “18t” or “16.5t” signs, but what happens if you get a ticket for this particular junction - despite staying on the A406 throughout?
Winseer:
Are we talking about traversing the A406 here, E/W or turning into the Palmer’s Green road from the A406?It makes sense to avoid the “18t” or “16.5t” signs, but what happens if you get a ticket for this particular junction - despite staying on the A406 throughout?
no
cav551:
Google MapsAnd the opposite direction at the junction of Green Lanes and the A 406
Thanks cav
Fair enough there are signs from nth circular onto green lanes heading south.
Not a single sign the other direction though coming from seven sisters road ERN.
Yes we should have checked the map more carefully, but just so used to running out well before midnight.
Will still appeal as seems brutal for running 10 minutes late, but expensive lesson learned here I suppose.
idrive:
Sorry, “they” refers to London Councils who issued the fine and rejected the appeal.
The enforcement agent was the person who reported the offence, rather than a camera…
The onus is on the operator to ensure, they are complying with dais restrictions. Green lanes is not a designated route. There is plenty of info here. So no excuses
I am sure they would have provided the photographic evidence when the penalty was issued, however who cares if not your truck, it’s a company problem.
londoncouncils.gov.uk/servi … ry-control
It shows permitted routes… so, good luck with an appeal, not like they are not transparent… oh and the London councils are the government.
idrive:
cav551:
Google MapsAnd the opposite direction at the junction of Green Lanes and the A 406
Thanks cav
Fair enough there are signs from nth circular onto green lanes heading south.
Not a single sign the other direction though coming from seven sisters road ERN.Yes we should have checked the map more carefully, but just so used to running out well before midnight.
Will still appeal as seems brutal for running 10 minutes late, but expensive lesson learned here I suppose.
.
London lorry control starts at 2100 to 0700 Monday to Saturday then on 1200 Saturday till 0700 Monday.
Sorry its starts 1300 on Saturday not 1200
fingermissing:
idrive:
cav551:
Google MapsAnd the opposite direction at the junction of Green Lanes and the A 406
Thanks cav
Fair enough there are signs from nth circular onto green lanes heading south.
Not a single sign the other direction though coming from seven sisters road ERN.Yes we should have checked the map more carefully, but just so used to running out well before midnight.
Will still appeal as seems brutal for running 10 minutes late, but expensive lesson learned here I suppose.
.
London lorry control starts at 2100 to 0700 Monday to Saturday then on 1200 Saturday till 0700 Monday.
He’s not telling the whole truth. 20:50 is not midnight.
discoman:
fingermissing:
idrive:
cav551:
Google MapsAnd the opposite direction at the junction of Green Lanes and the A 406
Thanks cav
Fair enough there are signs from nth circular onto green lanes heading south.
Not a single sign the other direction though coming from seven sisters road ERN.Yes we should have checked the map more carefully, but just so used to running out well before midnight.
Will still appeal as seems brutal for running 10 minutes late, but expensive lesson learned here I suppose.
.
London lorry control starts at 2100 to 0700 Monday to Saturday then on 1200 Saturday till 0700 Monday.He’s not telling the whole truth. 20:50 is not midnight.
Ok I put my hands up, thought it started at midnight.
Also thought green lanes was permitted.
I was wrong on both counts.
It is my truck and the fine will be paid. Lesson learned.
Apologies,
I didn’t realise you thought it was a midnight start, it used to be 23:00 start many years ago.
I think, it’s unfair you have been fined, a truck noise is no different to a bus at night imo, and plenty of buses run down green lanes.
Did they not provide a photographic evidence at the time, of as I assume you are an owner operator, then you would have got the should provide photographic evidence, as it could technically be a cloned vehicle or could be wrong digits etc.
Make sure you request also, there maybe camera footage.
Hope the links help you.
fingermissing:
.
London lorry control starts at 2100 to 0700 Monday to Saturday then on 1200 Saturday till 0700 Monday.
I wish the signs expressed it that clearly!
Why do they have to complicate things? [emoji849]
https://images.app.goo.gl/KxJkyyPEurPLj6vx6
Maybe the answer is for all haulage companies to ban London deliveries for a month or so and see what happens when they got no supplies.
miketdt:
Maybe the answer is for all haulage companies to ban London deliveries for a month or so and see what happens when they got no supplies.
Maybe a better answer is for firms to swallow the fines, and not pass them onto their drivers?
There’s no obligation for firms to pass on fines levvied by the authorities onto them as “Keeper of Vehicle” after all.
I wonder if firms that do pass on the fines to their drives - are in breach of the data protection act by revealing “Who was driving” at the time?
Winseer:
miketdt:
Maybe the answer is for all haulage companies to ban London deliveries for a month or so and see what happens when they got no supplies.Maybe a better answer is for firms to swallow the fines, and not pass them onto their drivers?
There’s no obligation for firms to pass on fines levvied by the authorities onto them as “Keeper of Vehicle” after all.
I wonder if firms that do pass on the fines to their drives - are in breach of the data protection act by revealing “Who was driving” at the time?
So you think the driver that went from Croydon to Enfield through Trafalgar Square instead of the M25 against company instructions should get off scot-free?
stu675:
Winseer:
There’s no obligation for firms to pass on fines levvied by the authorities onto them as “Keeper of Vehicle” after all.
I wonder if firms that do pass on the fines to their drives - are in breach of the data protection act by revealing “Who was driving” at the time?So you think the driver that went from Croydon to Enfield through Trafalgar Square instead of the M25 against company instructions should get off scot-free?
You need to lower the bar a bit, this is Winseer you’re replying to 
If he know anything at all he would know that there is a legal requirement for the owner of a vehicle to share information relating to the driver of a vehicle at the time of any offence committed.
And the owner/keeper of a vehicle is entitled to expect the driver to follow Highway Code rule 109
gov.uk/guidance/the-highway … 103-to-158
Rule 109
Traffic light signals and traffic signs. You MUST obey all traffic light signals (see ‘Light signals controlling traffic’) and traffic signs giving orders, including temporary signals & signs (see ‘Traffic signs’). Make sure you know, understand and act on all other traffic and information signs and road markings (see ‘Traffic signs’, ‘Road markings’ and ‘Vehicle markings’).
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD schedule 3 part 4, schedule 9 parts 7 and 8, schedule 14 parts 1 and 5, schedule 7 part 6, schedule 15 part 1
Winseer:
miketdt:
Maybe the answer is for all haulage companies to ban London deliveries for a month or so and see what happens when they got no supplies.Maybe a better answer is for firms to swallow the fines, and not pass them onto their drivers?
There’s no obligation for firms to pass on fines levvied by the authorities onto them as “Keeper of Vehicle” after all.
I wonder if firms that do pass on the fines to their drives - are in breach of the data protection act by revealing “Who was driving” at the time?
AFAIK the LLC fine is split, £130 for the driver and £550 for the operator.
njl:
]AFAIK the LLC fine is split, £130 for the driver and £550 for the operator.
With 50% discount if paid in 14 days