apathy????

[johnny]

as most of you know i like to make my opinions known when new regulations or changes to the industry i work within are in the offing.

i have this week received a reply from DVLA reference the proposed fee for smart cards.

Dear Mr Hunt

Digital Tachograph Fee Consultation

Thank you for responding to our consultation exercise issued on 21 December 2004.

438 consultation documents were issued and a total of 32 responses were received.

Nine of the respondents did not wish to comment on the consultation and two were happy with either option.

Only seven of the respondents stated a preference for either of the proposed fee structures.

Three chose Option one, which provides for some subsidy of driver’s fees by the companies, and four chose Option two, which provides for a greater degree of subsidising of the system by the driver.

There was also an opportunity in the consultation for respondents to declare that they did not support either proposal and 14 of them took this option.

The replies we had that were in favour of neither Option were mainly from drivers and their representative bodies.

In response, Ministers have decided that the fee structure set out in Option
One should be introduced.

The key benefit of this option is that it offers a fair distribution of the costs.

Although slightly more responses were in favour of Option two, the strength of feeling from those who favoured neither option on the basis that drivers should not be asked to pay a fee at all could not be ignored.

As Option one proposes lower fees for drivers it is felt that this can
be interpreted as the option representing the majority view.

The necessary legislation will be put in place as soon as possible.

all well and good and i was pleased to receive a reply which quite often is not the case but was really gets me is the fact that 438 consultation documents were sent out, a mere 438 - is it any wonder the industry is in such a mess and we get trampled on by government and europe at every opportunity.
then on top of that (as if that isn’t bad enough) only 32 responses were sent back, i have to wonder if i should just stick my head up my backside like most of the others in this industry? out of those respondents 9 did not wish to make a comment, what is the point of that?
if this is an example of how the industry deals with such legislation then we may as well drop our pants now, and get ready for more by this government, europe and anyone else that wants to have a go at our industry.
a quick look at the political parties manifesto’s should tell us all we need to know, not one single party (with the exception of snp) gives a mention to what they will do for road transport or the road transport and haulage industry, the answer must be to move to scotland and vote snp.

i have had to edit this because of my strong feelings regarding proposed legislation coming our way.
if something doesn’t make any sense it’s because i took out the swear words.

[mike_bartlett]

If this was a typical government consultation document, I’m suprised that 8% of those who asked for one actually understood it

[kitkat]

out of the 438 consultation documents,who received them our drivers never

[allikat]

So, 14 drivers and organisatiosn said no fees, and 3 companies went for option 1, and 4 for option 2…

So, of course, they go with the least popular choice■■?

[jonah_1]

johnny:
In response, Ministers have decided that the fee structure set out in Option
One should be introduced.

The key benefit of this option is that it offers a fair distribution of the costs.

Although slightly more responses were in favour of Option two, the strength of feeling from those who favoured neither option on the basis that drivers should not be asked to pay a fee at all could not be ignored.

As Option one proposes lower fees for drivers it is felt that this can
be interpreted as the option representing the majority view.

The necessary legislation will be put in place as soon as possible.

I think this section here answeres your question Johnny.

Even tho the majority wanted no fee they still went ahead with the fee anyway thereby ignoring the result of the consultation process.

It’s the same when local authorities “consult” local people on projects such Building tram routes.

The local people turn out to voice their concerns then the local authority ignores them then advertise they “consulted the local residents at every stage”

BOVINE EXCRETIA BAFFLES BRAINS

[david5l]

The simple answer is for all drivers to refuse to pay a fee.
If we all refuse and they want to introduce it then they’ll have to give us the cards for nowt

[johnny]

David5l:
The simple answer is for all drivers to refuse to pay a fee.
If we all refuse and they want to introduce it then they’ll have to give us the cards for nowt

absolutely spot on david.

that is exactly what every driver should do but we/they need support from the industry bodies which could prove difficult due to the fact that everybody is in each others pocket or looking out for themselves.

how will the truck manufacturers view the prospect of no drivers to drive new trucks when the regs start?
employers are not going to want to invest in equipment when they have no drivers with the correct tools to drive the new equipment, this may entice some employers to offer to pay for the new smart cards but others won’t and will not which then splits the driving force of the country and once more we are back where we are now.
it’s going to take a united front from every driver and every transport body.
we must all work as one, the unions to ask it’s members not to spend £38, then to inform the members’ employers of what they propose, then for the transport bodies to ask that it’s members (the operators) do not try to entice drivers to apply for the new smart cards.
it’s got to be easier to get done than that strike everyone kept talking about last year, we all know how difficult it is to get any money from us drivers and how reluctant we all are to fill out forms.
i still use the old style driving licence for 2 reasons, first is that i don’t see the point exchanging it for the new type that also includes a paper attachment that is bigger than the paper i currently have.
secondly the dvla are looking at a new style driving licence that will replace the 2 parter and can be used anywhere in europe so why spend money now when i know they won’t be giving the new, new licences away when they eventually decide what they are doing.
i have been informed that smart cards will be issued to drivers with the new 2 part drivers licence.

[davey_driver]

My Opinion is simply refuse to pay for the New Smart Card Licences

I know it sounds stupid but at the end of the day the Government have introduced these licences so they should be responsible for the costs, I’ve got my medical due and will send off my licence to be renewed, however, I wont be paying any fee for the smart card so if I dont get one back then it looks like I wont be driving the trucks simple as that, I know its unfair as I dont rely on driving now, but at the end of the day, if everyone sends back their licence without the fee then DVLA will be in one big mess.

Just make sure you have a photocopy of it before you send it

If drivers refuse to Pay then something will have to be done, your not refusing to drive trucks your just refusing to spend your wages on a government tax to do your job.

[johnny]

it’s not a licence davey, it’s for the new digital tachograph and will only be needed once the digital tacho is installed into trucks which could be from this year but is more likely to be from next year.

[rikki-uk]

I replied to this consultation, and this week got the same letter as Jonny…

I also stated my opposition to drivers being charged for the “Drivers card”.

It is obvious that most respondants said they believed in NO fees to drivers, and that has been ignored, this was never going to be a fair consultation, the options offered did not include a "no fee to drivers "choice, the decision was already made and this was just a paper exercise to justify some civil servants wage

[allrighty]

I for one will not be paying anything. I’m fed up of this country where we are just taxed to the hilt. It’s a great idea for new technology to be brought in, but why should we have to pay? Dont we pay enough in Income Tax, and not to mention fuel duty, and road tax? It sounds like a similar scenario to the Identity card plan, a great idea but everyone will be forced to pay for it separately. I will not pay you another penny Mr Blair so go ■■■■ yourself, you grinning imbecile.

[simonrs2k]

When these new “drivers cards” come into effect are the powers that be going to make all the operators of older trucks change from tachos to this new system or will it only be new trucks from a certain date?

simon

[johnny]

at the minute it’s only new trucks that require them, older vehicles will have to have them installed should the older tachograph breakdown beyond repair but if the tacho can be repaired then it will not require a new style tacho.
no date has yet been set although august has been the target date (august 2004 that is). the start date was moved back by one year due to prototype failure.

[mezzzz1211]

last year i spent £2000 gaining my hgv licence plus various other misc expenses
in a couple of years i have to pay for another medical,
any fines i get for being naughty i have to pay
in return i get
(apart from the love of driving)

hang on itll come to me in a mo

just a tick

hmmmm

no really ill have it soon

then again maybe it wont

[simonrs2k]

johnny:
at the minute it’s only new trucks that require them, older vehicles will have to have them installed should the older tachograph breakdown beyond repair but if the tacho can be repaired then it will not require a new style tacho.
no date has yet been set although august has been the target date (august 2004 that is). the start date was moved back by one year due to prototype failure.

Well to me that says the companies who have new fleets will struggle to get drivers unless either they or the drivers are willing to pay out for this new card

simon

[johnny]

i don’t feel that the companies should have to pay for the digital tacho licence.
i feel that transport uk already pays too much to operate through high fuel taxes, operator licencing costs, insurance, taxes etc. it isn’t right that we should try to pass the cost of a european directive onto them (our employers), either europe should pay for their ideas or our own government should subsidise the costs in full. what really annoyed me about the initial consultation document was this;

The second suggestion (ii) would not be popular with ordinary driving licence holders or vehicle keepers, as they would be paying for a service from which they would derive little or no benefit. The fees would have to be recouped from first driving licence applications, vehicle first registration applications or both driver and vehicle applications.

the highlighted section that claims that ordinary licence holders derive little or no benefit from us.

so how exactly does the fuel get to the forecourt then?
when mr ordinary driver buys that brand new car how come it travelled from the other side of europe but it has only 2 miles on the clock?
when mr ordinary licence holder is sitting in the car waiting for mrs ordinary licence holder to come out of the supermarket with the weekly shopping how does he think the weekly shopping got to the shelfs from the rdc and to the rdc from the manufaturer?

beyond belief and you can just imagine what my correspondance regarding this fiasco contained.

[mrpj]

How much will they be?

[johnny]

the estimate at the moment is between £35 and £40, probably closer to 40 than 35 but you never know with these lot.
the unions (urtu anyway) are talking about lobbying government reference this fee but i wouldn’t hold your breath on that one either.
they have been lobbying for the medical fees too and we still have to pay for that.

[mrpj]

They will be valid for no more than 5 years, is this correct?