Right still don’t really understand about the hours.
What it is i work for local council i work 4 days on 4 days off
we start at 06.30 finish about 17.00 dinner 12.00-13.00 just now we are doing overtime but it’s 2 night’s nightshift 20.00-06.30.
Question are the drivers working over their time over a seven day period?
Thanks for any help.
keithy:
Right still don’t really understand about the hours.
What it is i work for local council i work 4 days on 4 days off
we start at 06.30 finish about 17.00 dinner 12.00-13.00 just now we are doing overtime but it’s 2 night’s nightshift 20.00-06.30.
Question are the drivers working over their time over a seven day period?
Thanks for any help.
OK lets see if I got this right…
I’ll start with 4 days off then…
MON - Day 1 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
TUE - Day 2 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
WED - Day 3 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
THU - Day 4 0630 - 1700 weekly rest = 27
FRI - Day 5 2000 - 0630 daily rest = 13.5
SAT - Day 6 2000 - 0630 weekly rest = 
tachograph 
SUN - Day 7 off
MON - Day 8 off
Day 1 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
Day 2 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5…
Have I got the pattern correct
That’s right Rog each week we start one day later ie we started friday this week then start sat this week.
keithy:
That’s right Rog each week we start one day later ie we started friday this week then start sat this week.
As this is complicated because it runs through the fixed week I will leave tachograph or another EXPERT to give you the definitive answer - it’s beyond my knowledge 
Rog,
from what i can make out fixed weeks dont really come in to it apart from the 17/26 week average, as long as a full or reduced weekly rest is taken it basically “resets” the days you can work before needing another rest and as you seem to be taking at least 48 hours between finishing and then starting again it should not be a problem, i wouldnt take the 27 hours as a weekly rest as you are getting a full weekly rest every six days on the two full days off anyway.
i dont think it will anyway but we will wait and see.
i’ll join rog on the firing line and await the cross hairs
Ok before everybody dives in and gets excited;
Keithy, exactly what is it that you do for the council? Are you on the bins? Highways maintenance or something else? What gross weight vehicle do you drive? How far from base do you travel and what sort of records do you keep; tacho or log book or none 
.
Many functions carried out by Councils are outside the scope of EU drivers hours rules, which means the Domestic Hours code applies. Some stuff they do comes outside that and no hours rules apply, but there is still a duty of care owed to you by your employer.
If you can give us some more details then we’re in a better position to provide the correct answer
keithy:
Right still don’t really understand about the hours.
What it is i work for local council i work 4 days on 4 days off
we start at 06.30 finish about 17.00 dinner 12.00-13.00 just now we are doing overtime but it’s 2 night’s nightshift 20.00-06.30.
Question are the drivers working over their time over a seven day period?
Thanks for any help.
If the shift pattern is as ROG has said then as far as I can see you’re not working over your hours.
If you’re working to the WTD for mobile workers then you would need to watch the WTD average 48 hour week, that is if the overtime lasted for any length of time.
Weather or not you’re driving over your hours is another question and one that could only be answered with more information.
Assuming you have a 1 hour break when working nights then you’re doing 57 hours between weekly rest periods.
As you’re always having two consecutive days off then as far as I can see you can only ever do a maximum of six shifts in a fixed week, 6 shifts = 57 hours, 3 hours inside the 60 hour WTD limit so that’s OK.
You’re having a weekly rest period of well over 45 hours after six 24 hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period, so that’s OK.
The one thing you may need to look out for if this shift pattern continued for some time is that you can always fit a 45 hour weekly rest into a fixed week, but given that you’re having 72 hours of rest I don’t think this will be a problem, and you’ve always got that 27 hour rest to play with anyway.
As you’re working over 10 hours on nights I assume that either you’ve opted out of the 10 hour rule or you’re not working to the WTD for mobile workers.
So even if you’re working to EU regulations as long as you’ve opted out of the WTD 10 hour night workers rule I can’t see anything wrong with this as long as you keep an eye on the weekly average over the reference period.
If you’re not working to EU regulations then it’s all irrelevant anyway 
GeeBee it’s the sweeper motors and bin motors we work within the remit of council boundary’s where could i find out more about domestic rules?
Thanks for all you’re answers
keithy:
GeeBee it’s the sweeper motors and bin motors we work within the remit of council boundary’s where could i find out more about domestic rules?
Thanks for all you’re answers
vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 202008.pdf
got to - PAGE 24 SECTION 3 
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005
geebee45:
It depends exactly what it is you’re doing as to whether you are exempt EC drivers hours. Usually, if you’re exempt EC then you come under Domestic, although there are some exemptions from this.
For HGV drivers the rules are pretty simple;
No more than 10 hours driving
No more than 11 hours duty
That’s IT!! No midshift breaks, no continuous rest requirement, no weekend rest requirement, you can drive every day 365 days a year if you want to.
The example you give, actually looks legal. Assuming you were able to rest between 10:00 and 18:30 your day is only 8 hrs as the bit in the middle doesn’t count. What you couldn’t do is start work before 06:00 the following day, then the shifts would be added together.
The RTR regulations introduced in April this year don’t apply to work done under domestic regs, but the WTD 48 hour limit does. But you can opt out of that if you want to.
Thank’s Rog
tachograph:
The one thing you may need to look out for if this shift pattern continued for some time is that you can always fit a 45 hour weekly rest into a fixed week,…
Err, why does he need to fit the 45 hour weekly rest into the fixed week? 
It is perfectly acceptable for a weekly rest period to commence in one fixed week and end in the next. A weekly rest that does start and finish in different fixed weeks may be counted in either week but not both. If the EU rules do indeed apply to him then all he has to ensure is that he commences a weekly rest period in each fixed week and he will be okay with that shift pattern, he doesn’t have to fit the entire rest period into the fixed week.
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
The one thing you may need to look out for if this shift pattern continued for some time is that you can always fit a 45 hour weekly rest into a fixed week,…Err, why does he need to fit the 45 hour weekly rest into the fixed week?
It is perfectly acceptable for a weekly rest period to commence in one fixed week and end in the next. A weekly rest that does start and finish in different fixed weeks may be counted in either week but not both. If the EU rules do indeed apply to him then all he has to ensure is that he [i[commences[/i] a weekly rest period in each fixed week and he will be okay with that shift pattern, he doesn’t have to fit the entire rest period into the fixed week.
ROG:
OK lets see if I got this right…
I’ll start with 4 days off then…
MON - Day 1 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
TUE - Day 2 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
WED - Day 3 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
THU - Day 4 0630 - 1700 weekly rest = 27
FRI - Day 5 2000 - 0630 daily rest = 13.5
SAT - Day 6 2000 - 0630 weekly rest =
SUN - Day 7 off
MON - Day 8 off
Day 1 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5
Day 2 0630 - 1700 daily rest = 13.5…
Thats why I did not commit on this bit as I was not sure either
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
The one thing you may need to look out for if this shift pattern continued for some time is that you can always fit a 45 hour weekly rest into a fixed week,…Err, why does he need to fit the 45 hour weekly rest into the fixed week?
It is perfectly acceptable for a weekly rest period to commence in one fixed week and end in the next. A weekly rest that does start and finish in different fixed weeks may be counted in either week but not both. If the EU rules do indeed apply to him then all he has to ensure is that he commences a weekly rest period in each fixed week and he will be okay with that shift pattern, he doesn’t have to fit the entire rest period into the fixed week.
I phrased it badly, what I meant to say was that you need to be able to have a 45 hour rest that will count for the fixed week.
As you know you have to have a weekly rest each fixed week, true that the entire rest period doesn’t need to be in the week that it’s to be counted for.
I haven’t worked it out but with a shift pattern changing by one day after every eight days it’s possible that at some point it could be difficult to have a full weekly rest period that can be counted for the fixed week in which it’s needed, though given that at one point a 27 hour rest is taken which could be used as a reduced weekly rest period I don’t really think it’s going to be a problem but still worth keeping an eye on I would have thought.
Apologies for the delay in answering after you provided the answers to my questions, I wanted some time to think about this one.
Bins; provided you are doing door to door collections of household waste from domestic properties you satisfy the requirements for one of the derogations from EU rules. This derogation would also include doing collections of material for recycling (glass, cans, paper, garden waste) from domestic properties.
Sweepers; provided that you are sweeping public roads and not travelling any great distance from the depot, again this work comes under a derogation form EU drivers hours rules.
As both jobs come out of EU, they by default fall into the Domestic Hours Code. Quite simply for HGV drivers (PSV are different) you can do 11 hours duty and 10 hours driving.
Forget all about the RT(WT)D limits of 48 hours per week average, 60 hours maximum, they do not apply to drivers under Domestic Hours. The WTD limit of 48 hours does apply . however, you may opt out of this if you wish, you may find that you already have. Europe is currently taking about ending this option, but as yet it’s just that; talk.
Now looking at your shift pattern; 06:30 to 17:00 with an hour off for lunch. Not a problem as you have only worked for 9 hours 30 minutes (the hour lunch doesn’t count in the calculation of working time). Provided that in the shift you do not drive for more than 10 hours, everything is OK so far.
I’ll assume that Rog’s illustration of your shift pattern is correct in that;
Monday 06:30 > 17:00 (day 1)
Tuesday 06:30 > 17:00 (day 2)
Wednesday 06:30 > 17:00 (day 3)
Thursday 06:30 > 17:00 (day 4)
Friday 20:00 > 06:30 (day 5) overtime
Saturday 20:00 > 06:30 (day 6) overtime
Sunday day off (day 7)
Monday day off (day 
Tuesday 06:30 > 17:00 (day 1, cycle repeats)
Not a problem with this. People forget that under Domestic Hours Code for HGV drivers there is NO requirement to have a weekly rest period. I know this sounds daft but thems the rules.
Where you could have a problem is where you begin the shift on day 2 (or any other day) earlier than 06:30. In other words within 24 hours of your previous days’ shift starting. For example, you’re on the bins, it’s coming up to Christmas and there is a big rush to get peoples bins emptied in time for the Big Day. Your Manager wants you to start at 03:30 on the second morning. The time between 03:30 and 06:00 ( 2 hours 30 minutes) will be added to your working time for the previous day (9 hours 30 minutes) totalling 12 hours, you have bust the duty limit of 11 hours by an hour. You have now committed an offence. Just make sure that you don’t start a shift again within the 24 hours your last shift started. Or, if you do, that the combined working and driving totals in the 24 hour period do not exceed 11 hours work or 10 hours driving.
Hope this helps 