Well it started 8.00 pm last night when a driver phoned to say he was feeling poorly and would not be in Monday Morning. Needless to say every driver on the firm had a job this morning including the lad who ducked with a 4.00 am start. Sorted that one out by swapping thing around with other drivers. Came into office 5.30 am Monday, a vehicle VOR air tank problems. Another driver hands his notice in, been with us 3 weeks, he did 3 nights out last week but his partner’s not happy with him being away so he quits to keep her happy. In the last month I have set on 5 new drivers, 2 now remain out of that 5. The annoying part is I have more work than I can shake a stick at but can’t do because of lack of drivers. Was it always like this? Or do we look at the ‘good old days’ through rose tinted specs? 
Sounds like the job may not be what the new lads thought it would be ie they have to work a little and actually use there brain. Ive heard locally someone reporting that a company actually asked fresh driver to them whether or not they could drive a manual
Where are you based.
Sounds like the job may not be what the new lads thought it would be ie they have to work a little and actually use there brain. Ive heard locally someone reporting that a company actually asked fresh driver to them whether or not they could drive a manual
Where are you based.
What have you done to them to have 3 of them leave? 3 nights out a week? You bloody slave driver.
They’d ■■■■ on my last please 6 one week 5 the neat weekended in between.
Bloody ridiculous quitting because they had to night out.
On a positive note at least he have you notice
Where i work the ‘old school’ are welcomed with open arms and the company do their level best to keep them, the job pays top dollar for very reasonable hours so those of us, many of whom who have worked our bollox off in previous lives, appreciate it and put the effort in to make it all work for the company too, only a tiny minority take the P with sickies and can’t-do uncaring attitude.
Indeed some of our younger drivers (early 30’s) stand out by being old school despite their comparative youth, the two i’m thinking of in particular are sons of proper lorry drivers and both have worked for poorly paid outfits in their first few years, and both appreciate what they have now, they don’t do sickies, they do the job well and they look after the tackle and the customer.
A high turnover of drivers like this leads me to (possibly mistakenly) think that there is something flawed, either you are recruiting the wrong type or the terms and conditions arn’t good enough to attract the best and keep them.
Are you recruiting by recommendation by trusted present employees, where i am the company have never advertised outside for staff and i doubt they ever will.
Maybe time to look at why you have such a high turnover of staff.
I’m open to any suggestions. Yes, our type of work can be a bit intimidating for some drivers, given that much of it is flat trailer work with peculiar shaped pre-cast concrete sections that do require a bit of thought on how to secure them properly and safely. The lad who has quit because of his 3 nights out last week was on fridges all week, so the type of work wasn’t the issue and his wages top line for last week is £520 plus £75 nights out allowance. I believe that our pay rates are average for the industry. We are based at Bolton and it is within easy travelling distance of several RDCs who offer non-demanding work without nights out. I’ve been down the recruiting by recomendation route but that doesn’t seem to work either, as there have been very few showing any interest.
Some of the buggas don’t WANT to work, the only thing they are good at is holding their hand out for the pay slip. Yes, your own bed is best, but in lorry driving you have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth and if all else fails…the state will provide. 
No offence but unless that top line was for around 40 total hours then the money simply isn’t good enough to attract and retain the better drivers, they will most likely earn more than that for sitting on their arse at the supermarket loading bay and going home every night, and for that sort of rate a man with a young family might take home more by earning less and the state topping it up, so you have to go above the subsidy threshold.
From an experienced drivers perspective, RDC or similar no night out work is attractive to those who have served their time and have the experience, sensibly they don’t want to sleep in tin cans any more, they can usually go home as clean as they started work, and the hourly rates are usually in the upper reaches.
I’d look at terms and conditions first of all, good drivers who look after their tackle and do the job economically are worth extra.
Also i don’t know what your fleet is like, well kept properly painted undamaged well specced lorries (not necessarily bling) that the proper driver can take a pride in can make a difference too, proper drivers still like lorries they can drive.
The attitude of the boss/company can make or break the job, again no offence meant to you i’m sure you are that man, only saying what worked for me.
I drove for a 15ish vehicle fleet for some years till i got a good break into far better money (and never looked back), i’d driven for a few local hauliers in my early days but i got a job for a very long established haulier, he was a complete gentleman, always polite to a fault always asked you to do a job with a please and thankyou, that went such a long way, most of us bend over backwards for someone who simply treats us as decent people.
To be fair he paid better than the rest of the haulage in the area (no RDC logistics operators then, and few steering wheel attendants either) but we worked harder than most, however he overspecified the engines and vehicles to provide the tool for the job, and his vehicles were by far the best maintained and presented fleet in the county.
Part of the attraction of where i work now, and its a large privately owned company, is the attitude, from the moment i shoved me ugly mug through the door and asked for a job i’ve been treated with nothing but respect, and there is a culture of respect throughout the company from the very top, that makes all the difference.
Sorry about the waffle but you did ask for suggestions, if you want to know what sort of pay scales i’m talking about it would have to be by PM.
It may well not be you, driving today is the absolute pits to what it was years ago, yes the wagons are simple to drive but there lies one problem, auto boxes, speed limiters and other “aids” reduce the job to boredom. The laws, regulations and rules require a lot of knowledge, add in congested roads full of idiotic and selfish drivers makes the job a lot harder, if you consider the same wage can be earned in other area’s of work with non of this hassle it’s not hard to understand why good drivers are getting difficult to find.
I’ve been driving wagons for 40 years, few of the skills I learned are needed any more, there is no craic or camaraderie, it’s a completely different world and NOT for the better !
I agree with every comment made and I do think that we are a fair employer that treats its drivers with respect and courtesy. I would like to pay higher wages but the truth is that with general haulage there is only so much wages money in the pot. Our fleet is well maintained and we run to the letter of the law at all times. Our vehicle specs are middle-of-the-road fleet specs, nothing too fancy, but again we’re a general haulier and costs are our prime consideration. We have two pay schemes, new drivers commence on a hourly rate, then we put them onto a fixed daily rate after a probationary period. We also pay extra for Saturday and Sunday. To pay £520 for 40 hours (£13 / hour) would bankrupt us, and I don’t know of any general haulier that could pay that.
Even back in the 70s there were drivers like that. We had a contract to shift North Sea Gas condensate from Spurn Head to the NCB refinery at Wath or Immingham Storage and some drivers got it regular.Some lads including me didn’t want it because of the queuing at both ends,sooner be tramping, although we did do the job now and again. The regulars were happy to have nights out at Doncaster/Dunsville/Keadby and fiddle home to Sheffield sometimes five nights a week,but when the condensate work dropped off in summer because of lower demand for gas,and they got a genuine night out they would invariably bloody knock and somebody else would fall for the job. I was used to nights away but when you expected to be home that night and found you had to go down the road int afternoon to cover for a knocker, myself and some other lads complained but nowt were done about it. Why they took the job on int first place I don’t know.
The last time I covered for one of them I did it under protest so the gaffer told me to run with the load,tip it at Caerphilly and come home empty - there was no work in Sth Wales that week anyway.I got back as far as Derby and had a dodgy meself and when I ran in next morning the regular driver was waiting for his shed,asking me where I had been as he wanted an early finish to play snooker that night. 
I could have twa**ed him. 
There have always been blokes like that Chris. We had one who used to volunteer to do a Saturday job with Caustic Soda to I.C.I. Ellesmere Port, guaranteed ten hours. Five hours at time and a half and five hours at double time and you could bet your house on it that he would phone up at 8 o’clock on Monday morning and say that he was too ill to come in or the cat had died.
I packed in driving commercials ( vans and 7.5t ) in 1975. For every good bloke I worked with - they were HGV drivers - There were at least 2 gobby back stabbing good for nothing tossers. Conditions and atitudes have changed for the worse now so the ratio must be astronomic. Sounds like you are going through a bad patch. Keep hold of the good uns and thank him upstairs the lazy gits are jacking it in and not destroying your reputation.
Good luck for the future. Jim
When the dcpc kicks in,which is a few months away, a lot of the older drivers will be gone from haulage. The rate Gingerfold is paying would be decent money in the area where I live, but quite a bit less than a lot of other firms in other areas are paying.
I appreciate what he is saying. You can only pay the rate that your type of haulage allows. A lot of hauliers are struggling to get decent rates.
Its one of the few industries that the person that does the work can’t dictate the charge.
Cheers Dave.
(We) my brother pays the highest wages I know of for general rigid flat work ,drivers come full of them selves but don’t last either they don’t like or can’t drive Erf s or 10 year old Dafs or can’t stick nights out or the variation of loads ,one lad came his wages here were double what he was getting on a 8 wheel tipper but he couldn’t do it ,you’d think he had to arrange his own work to hear him moaning .
It appears to be good money to me, however I only drove tippers where the rate was dictated by Tilcon, Tossmac, RMC etc and if the rates are poor then the wages are not going to be spectacular either. It makes me chuckle when I read on the ‘Professional’ drivers forum that the wages are poor even though they are hourly paid and get good money sitting in RDC’s etc when the truck is earning zilch! To my way of thinking if the gaffer isn’t getting paid then how can the driver expect to be, maybe I am WAY out of touch with the modern transport world? 
Just wish that I had been paid for all the wasted hours sitting in quarries and on road jobs, might have been on my way to being a millionaire haha. 
I realise that none of this helps Gingerfold, just an observation of mine on the way things are. Getting back in my box now:wink:
Pete.
If the company isn’t being paid for waiting time (after a specified time) then the people running that company should not be running a company 
newmercman:
If the company isn’t being paid for waiting time (after a specified time) then the people running that company should not be running a company
I take it that you have never hauled for a big quarrying company newmercman. A lot of good hauliers have battled with them for years to get better rates and to be paid more for waiting time. They don’t care about the hauliers. The only way the rates would go up, is if all the hauliers would stick together. A lot a Barrack room lawyers, but won’t say boo when it comes to the crunch.
Cheers Dave.
Dave the Renegade:
newmercman:
If the company isn’t being paid for waiting time (after a specified time) then the people running that company should not be running a companyI take it that you have never hauled for a big quarrying company newmercman. A lot of good hauliers have battled with them for yearsto get better rates and to be paid more for waiting time. They don’t care about the hauliers. The only way the rates would go up, is if all the hauliers would stick together. A lot a Barrack room lawyers, but won’t say boo when it comes to the crunch.
Cheers Dave.
No I didn’t, one of the reasons, well the only reason as it happens, was because the rates are terrible 
I learned the hard way to speak up for myself and add the word NO to my vocabulary, once I grew a pair I earned a lot more money 
Evening all, what a subject, what a can of worms! Where can one start, or even where can one go, in such a discourse!
I can remember m y Grandfather, (posseser of a certificate of merit, for working as a Lock Keeper through the 1926 General Strike),relating how the “number 1s”, the Canal Boat “owner drivers” had cut the rates for carriage of goods on the canal system in the 1900s!
Its no use going back over well turned ground, but the death knell of a realistic rate for road haulage was rooted in Labour politician Barbara Castles 1964 Transport Act. This was the basis of the gross overcapacity in the industry that we see today, and the net result …the dire return on effort for all employed in the Hire and Reward industry.
And it is not just here, for I remember the “stagnant” French industry of the 70s, with Governmental set road haulage rates, yet coupled with proper credit regulation enabled many firms to operate profitably, and provide reasonable working enviroments, purely based on positive cash flow…they got paid for what they did!
Yet today, with open competition, the dog eat dog mentality so prevalent in the UK for the last nigh on 50 years pervades the French market also. And who feels the strain…the man behind the wheel…and who is he?..but the cheapest man available…wherever he comes from!
Who on earth would wish to drive a lorry in the UK today? Facilities…not available…Status…even below estate agents and bankers…no one outside our industry has any concept of the legal restraints, and responsibilities foisted upon the person behind the wheel…and no one cares, for lorries, trucks, are an inconvenience that "we " can do without.
As a contra argument may I suggest an examination of the alternative , the HS2 furore…Why on earth have not the "Trade Organizations majored on what the industry does, and can still increase doing as an alternative…B… Suet Puddings, too self satisfied to get off their backsides and seize the moment!
I hate the industries lack of self promotion, the total lack of positive image, the total and very apparent lack of pride in what you do!..only Stobart has promoted the positive image…(however negative may be the reality of its activity), yet throughout the land there are really professional outfits quietly keeping this failing society going!
But there is no concentrated effort to increase the bed rock, the rate for the job…why…because there are too many in the industry…too many with enormous debts, too many with real lack of business training,
( no personal criticism of individual operators intended), but given the colossal amount of effort poured into “the job” by so many, it is a wicked sin that they do not have the business training to differentiate between a potentially profitable revenue stream…and just hard work for nowt!!! And so many do, (and have done), the latter!
Education in the UK has failed so many, so many with real potential, ignored by the “pseudo” academic arty-■■■■■ system, to the detriment of the Artisan Entrepreneur, the man, or woman, who have the potential to succeed, yet the basics of business were never given to them…shame, oh shame on our educational system!!! Cash flow analysis, Profit and loss, ratio analysis…simple, (and enjoyable), techniques, yet we alone in Europe never touch on these bed rocks of business!
Quarries, and their corporate owners…let me regale you with a little tale from my past…A major Midland Quarry owner decided to divest himself of the burden of running his own lorries, across all his operations…
Adeal was struck with a major manufacturer, and financier…His drivers were offered redundancy, (the minimum possible), or the “gateway” to their own business, the purchase of a chassis cab, suited to the Quarry owners work, plus the bodywork…and “work” at the discresion of the Quarry owner! And at his rate…
Shall we examin the mechanics of the job?..Manufacturer supplies chassis against a “fleet” order @ 20% discount off list. The supplying Dealership gets a figure, (modest), for pdi, and delivery, plus a nominal cash amount for supply, The Quarry owner receives an additional 2.5% rebate against list price for taking X number of chassis. The same system applies for the bodywork supplier…
Then of course comes the financier…and of course Mr Quarry owner receives a rebate against the rate charged to the prospective…“Contract Haulier”…Good business eh!!! No wonder Contract Hauliers look so worried…and if they do not…I refer to my above paragraphs on Business Training…IT IS A SCANDAL…but it carries on…and on…and on…
And I fear that I am so doing…but the truth is…(and I have no pleasure in saying this), that if you cannot pay a good rate for the man doing the job, and provide him with good working conditions and equipment, then you are not getting the proper rate for the job anyway…and that has been the problem in the UK for over 40 years, so no doubt it will continue…
What overcapacity do each of you Gentlemen estimate that our industry runs at?? Worth a guestimate at least…My own estimate is (pure UK) operators 40%…but if you factor the enlarged European Union, and its bloated over (very discreetly), subsidised former State Controlled Haulage operations then the gross overcapacity verges in Europe @ around 48%, and given cabotage, in the UK 62%!!!
I would love to be shot to pieces, and proven wrong on these figures…but I do not think that it will happen!
I have no pleasure in this post, for I love our industry. But I , as you, have seen, and been witness to its decline. gingerfold, I truly wish you well, but the standards have fallen, and perceptions of entitlement have risen, and the industry has proven to be its own worst enemy personified. Throughout the UK there is a blatent aversion to physical work, in favour of sedentary , (seemingly) cerebal ones .
So I shall away to a sedentary consumption of the nectar Bollinger, and remember fondly my physical work of my younger days…and today, in the twilight of my life)!
Good luck Gentlemen