Another Dumb Question About Hours

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

i know there s no such thing as a dumb question except the one you dont ask but i think i have one. i have looked at the WTD numerous times and i just about have my head around it but… :cry:

i work weekends doing class 2 work to get experience before i change careers full time.

my question is this

during the week i am in the navy and basically work from 0800 to 1600 Mon-Thurs with a break at 1000-1030 and another at 1200-1315 and Fri its 0800 to 1200 with a break 1000-1030. (total max hours worked per week in day job is 28 ). (most weeks i tend to finish on a thursday evening so work time is usually 25 hours a week)

i understand about keeping tachos for 28 days and then send them to the agency but if i work weekends do i need to record all work done during the week and have a normal weekly break?

the reason i cant quite grasp it is that there is numerous things in there about the armed forces not needing tacho’s and such. :exclamation:

if i got stopped by VOSA would i need a record of all the hours i have worked for the past week (if i did need this could it just be a written record or does it need to be on the back of discs.) :question:

and also do i have to take a weekly rest because in my day job the only thing i drive is a desk and a computer. absolutely no driving at all!

if anybody can grasp what i am asking and answer it would be very much appreciated. :unamused: :question:

2

OOH, I love to have a go at these :slight_smile: :slight_smile: - BUT I usually get at least some of it WRONG :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
I aint the expert on this…

Giblsa:
I know there’s no such thing as a dumb question except the one you don’t ask but I think i have one. I have looked at the WTD numerous times and I just about have my head around it but… :cry:

I work weekends doing class 2 work to get experience before I change careers full time.

My question is this

During the week i am in the navy and basically work from 0800 to 1600 Mon-Thurs with a break at 1000-1030 and another at 1200-1315 and Fri its 0800 to 1200 with a break 1000-1030. (total max hours worked per week in day job is 28 ). (most weeks I tend to finish on a Thursday evening so work time is usually 25 hours a week)

Thats the daily bit that matters

Giblsa:
I understand about keeping tachos for 28 days and then send them to the agency but if I work weekends do I need to record all work done during the week and have a normal weekly break?

The reason i cant quite grasp it is that there is numerous things in there about the armed forces not needing tacho’s and such. :exclamation:

if i got stopped by VOSA would i need a record of all the hours i have worked for the past week (if i did need this could it just be a written record or does it need to be on the back of discs.) :question:

and also do i have to take a weekly rest because in my day job the only thing i drive is a desk and a computer. absolutely no driving at all!

if anybody can grasp what i am asking and answer it would be very much appreciated. :unamused: :question:

You need to record your name, start & Finish time on a seperate tacho for each day that you worked (driving or not) if you came under EU rules for any fixed week between Sunday midnight & Sunday midnight.
To make things easy, you could reduce the first weekly break but the second one would then need to be 45 + the hours you lost on the first one.
If you only work Mon to Thu then you could drive on Fri & Sat unless that was the weekend that you needed to catch up on the previous one, in which case, you could only drive on the Fri.
Yes, you need to retain 28 days of work records but only for the weeks that you came under EU rules, so if you only came under them every other week, then you would only have 2 weeks records for the 4 week period - that is OK.

NOW watch coffeeholic, tachograph or geebee45 SHOOT ME :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :wink: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

3

Thanks ROG

so the way i understand it, i need to keep a manual record of the hours i work in my office (working for the navy) and if i finished at 1600 on a thursday and didnt work for 45 hours that would be my weekly break, therefore i would effectively be able to work from 1300 on saturday, and the sunday. is this correct?

4

Giblsa:
during the week i am in the navy and basically work from 0800 to 1600 Mon-Thurs with a break at 1000-1030 and another at 1200-1315 and Fri its 0800 to 1200 with a break 1000-1030. (total max hours worked per week in day job is 28 ). (most weeks i tend to finish on a thursday evening so work time is usually 25 hours a week)

Total hours you work is not relevant as they do not count toward the WTD for mobile workers. The only thing relevant is teh number of days you work in a week in which you drive.

Giblsa:
i understand about keeping tachos for 28 days and then send them to the agency

Records must be returned to the organisation under whose order a driver was working, so in the case of agency drivers, that will be the operator of the vehicle, not the agency.

Giblsa:
but if i work weekends do i need to record all work done during the week and have a normal weekly break?

In weeks in which you drive you have to observe a weekly rest period, and daily rest periods on those days you drive on. You also need to record all work done for any employers during those weeks.

Giblsa:
if i got stopped by VOSA would i need a record of all the hours i have worked for the past week

You would need records covering the current day plus the previous 28 days. This doesn’t mean you would necessarily need records covering 28 days as you only need them for weeks in which you have driven under EU rules.

Giblsa:
(if i did need this could it just be a written record or does it need to be on the back of discs.) :question:

Written record on a bit of paper or whatever is no good. It needs to be recorded on a chart - back or front it doesn’t matter, print out from a digi tacho or by means of the manual input facility on a digi tacho. Charts would be the easiest option and the only thing you need to record is name, date, start and finish times.

Giblsa:
and also do i have to take a weekly rest because in my day job the only thing i drive is a desk and a computer. absolutely no driving at all!

Yes, you cannot work every day just because your first job doesn’t include driving.

5

thanks coffeholic, that is what i needed to know. so if i worked all week for the navy and did a driving job on the friday and saturday night i would fall foul of the law if i did that?

do i need to have taken a 45 hour break before the midnight on the saturday/sunday?

6

Giblsa:
if i finished at 1600 on a thursday and didnt work for 45 hours that would be my weekly break, therefore i would effectively be able to work from 1300 on saturday, and the sunday. is this correct?

No, if you worked on both the Saturday and Sunday you wouldn’t be having a weekly rest period. This rest period isn’t just from your navy job, it is from all work.

The easiest way for you to stay legal is to work one day every second weekend, ensuring there is at least 9 hours between you finishing the work and starting back at your navy job on the Monday. You must take at least two regular rest periods - a regular rest is continuous period of at least 45 hours, or one regular and one reduced - a reduced rest is a continuous period of between 24 and 45 hours in any two consecutive weeks. It may be possible by careful planning and short shifts to work one day every weekend but it would be complicated. You cannot work both days of any weekend if you have already done five days at your navy job.

7

Giblsa:
thanks coffeholic, that is what i needed to know. so if i worked all week for the navy and did a driving job on the friday and saturday night i would fall foul of the law if i did that?

Yes

Giblsa:
do i need to have taken a 45 hour break before the midnight on the saturday/sunday?

No, you need to have taken a weekly rest period before resuming work for the navy at 08:00 Monday morning. So to fit a regular rest period in you must work no later than 11:00 Saturday and for a reduced weekly rest, no later than 08:00 Sunday.

8

Said I would not get it all right :blush: :blush: :blush: …

… now runs and hides from gunsights :wink: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

9

Coffeeholic:
You cannot work both days of any weekend if you have already done five days at your navy job.

but if i finish on thursday evening could i work friday and saturday as long as i have the sunday off and monday off (from the navy) as well, to make sure i get my 45 hours off completely.

10

ROG:
Said I would not get it all right :blush: :blush: :blush: …

… now runs and hides from gunsights :wink: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

you did better than i did ROG! thanks anyway.

coffeeholic - you are the man with the knowledge of hours. im goign to call you the guru from now on

11

Giblsa:

Coffeeholic:
You cannot work both days of any weekend if you have already done five days at your navy job.

but if i finish on thursday evening could i work friday and saturday as long as i have the sunday off and monday off (from the navy) as well, to make sure i get my 45 hours off completely.

If you only did Mon - Thurs for the Navy you could work both Friday and Saturday driving. whether you would need the Monday off from your navy job as well would depend on what time you finished on the Saturday and/or whether you had taken a regular or reduced weekly rest the previous week. If you hadn’t worked the previous weekend you could work Monday for the navy as normal, if you are finished by 11:00 on the Saturday it doesn’t matter whether you worked the previous weekend or not.

Giblsa:
coffeeholic - you are the man with the knowledge of hours. im goign to call you the guru from now on

I have been called that in the past. along with a whole load of other, less flattering names. :wink: :smiley: :smiley:

12

Coffeeholic:
[
I have been called that in the past. along with a whole load of other, less flattering names. :wink: :smiley: :smiley:

:bulb: I could think of some :exclamation: …

… still looking out for gunsights :wink:

13

Giblsa:
coffeeholic - you are the man with the knowledge of hours. im goign to call you the guru from now on

Hi Giblsa, the rest of us call him that too. :wink: :grimacing:

I’ve never known Coffeeholic to get an hours question wrong, unlike myself… :blush:

14

ROG:

Coffeeholic:
I have been called that in the past. along with a whole load of other, less flattering names. :wink: :smiley: :smiley:

I know some for you :wink:

… still looking out for gunsights :wink:

I know where there is one! :wink:

15

that is now crystal clear. thanks fella’s.

i guess i will have to have a serious think about when to take time off from the navy and do a proper job. hopefully i will be leaving in a few months with a medical pension so i can seriously start doing it.

would you recommend to go into tramping? the reason i am thinking about it is this (you may laugh but please see my side of it)

i have been in the navy since i was 16 (a few years ago now) and have spent about 80% of my career living away from home. when i have a few weeks off and me and the wife go on holiday or just chill around the house we really do each others head in, as i believe we are used to having our own space, this doesnt mean we love each other any less, its just the way we are. therefore if i could spend a few night away a week it would help us get on better.

what are your thoughts on it?

16

Giblsa:
that is now crystal clear. thanks fella’s.

i guess i will have to have a serious think about when to take time off from the navy and do a proper job. hopefully i will be leaving in a few months with a medical pension so i can seriously start doing it.

would you recommend to go into tramping? the reason i am thinking about it is this (you may laugh but please see my side of it)

i have been in the navy since i was 16 (a few years ago now) and have spent about 80% of my career living away from home. when i have a few weeks off and me and the wife go on holiday or just chill around the house we really do each others head in, as i believe we are used to having our own space, this doesnt mean we love each other any less, its just the way we are. therefore if i could spend a few night away a week it would help us get on better.

what are your thoughts on it?

Whatever suits your needs the best :smiley:

PS - use the search facility and put in TRAMPING :slight_smile:

17

my pennies worth on this would not be considered legal.
here goes.
you are driving heavy goods when not working in your navy job.
suppose you get a pull by vosa.
you are not going to say anything about your other job.
it would give you away.
if vosa want to know why you only do short driving hours,your answer is that you just drive part time.
family grown,mortgage paid etc.
theres no need to worry yourself about wtd,its a load of crap anyway.
just carry on suiting yourself,if you want the money and it suits,do 7 days.
and keep quiet.
i will get a lot of stick for this post,but its the way i feel about it.
i dont rob banks or murder or break the laws that are practical.,but some laws are just pure silly.
this wtd is one of them in my opinion.
how much money are these guys getting paid in brussels to sit in their offices making up stupid rules and regs to annoy us more.
if there wasnt enough to be done getting on with your life without all the crap.