Hi Guys, i hope you can offer some guidance on these querys please.
We are currently in the process of updating our fleet and have currently got 5 hire vehicles in with Digitachos - as i am one of a few drivers with a digi card obviously i’m having to drive one of the hire trucks as well as our old fleet on occasions on analogue tachos.
No one in our transport office really knew anything about Digis etc so between us as drivers we fiddled about & learnt the basics from eachother etc…but now we have had 8-10weeks of these hire trucks and still have had no formal training or seen a handbook on what exactly we should be doing, do we print off daily ? management say we dont need to, joe bloggs says we do etc…also we dont know what some of the symbols mean etc…its hard to really explain as its just little querys & questions are cropping up every day and no one is helping us. Our lead driver is mainly office based now and all he says is i dont know its you guys that are using them, but i told him today that hes being saying this for 2 months and that bye now he should have been trained up on digis to help us, also my boss said dont do any printouts as it is the equivalent of opening the analogue tachos etc…im thinking of writing to my boss & HR saying that if i have not had training on digicards by April 30th i am not going to drive the Digi trucks, after all its me thats going to be in trouble if im doing things incorrectly, how would i be fixed giving that ultimatum to my company ? Cheers!
I’ll try and explain some of what i know.
Your boss is incorrect when he says printing out is the equivalent of opening the tacho head. However he is right when he says you do not need to print out. The only reasons you would need to print out are if he tells you to get a printout because he wants one off you or you need to print out so you can make a manual entry or explanation on the rear of the print out.
Apart from popping it in and making sure you change the modes as applicable there isn’t an awful lot to know about them. The main one i can think of is making manual entries on the card to update your start and finish times. If you have a Siemens VDO i can tell you how to do that, if its a Stoneridge then someone else will have to tell you.
This is actually one of the easiest questions that’s come up for quite a while…
The trucks on your fleet are operated under an ‘O’ licence…
The grant and continued validity of an ‘O’ licence depends on several ‘untertakings’ (promises) being kept…
The important one here is the legal promise to monitor and control drivers’ hours…
IMHO, your boss can hardly demonstrate that he has a grip on this promise by his apparent attitude in letting you guys get on with training yourselves and each other in such a haphazard way.
I’d suggest that your boss considers getting some proper training for himself, along with the relevant office staff and drivers before he comes to the attention of VOSA or the Traffic Commissioner.
Another thing I’d suggest that your boss considers is how he’s going to comply with the requirement to download and store the digital drivers’ hours records in a timely fashion and for the required length of time.
I wouldn’t fret too much here mate, cos quite a lot of this isn’t really your problem.
I’ve only mentioned my suggestions above, because drivers’ hours lessons given to bosses and drivers by Magistrates tend to be quite expensive.
Cheers Dave, yes long time mate, i dont get on as much now i’m a proper trucker lol…too much work on But yes we have been discussing this today and i think i’m going to email my concerns next week & point out that if we dont get training asap that we as drivers will take advice from VOSA / TC and see what reaction that brings. My work as a digi card reader etc and keeps records of our hours etc but its all to cover their back, i want to cover mine too. We work for a very big company and someone is supposed to be coming to train relevant people from the organisation, but When ? i think 8 week so far is long enough myself.
tobytyke:
Cheers Dave, yes long time mate, i dont get on as much now i’m a proper trucker lol…too much work on But yes we have been discussing this today and i think i’m going to email my concerns next week & point out that if we dont get training asap that we as drivers will take advice from VOSA / TC and see what reaction that brings. My work as a digi card reader etc and keeps records of our hours etc but its all to cover their back, i want to cover mine too. We work for a very big company and someone is supposed to be coming to train relevant people from the organisation, but When ? i think 8 week so far is long enough myself.
Hi tobytyke, Agreed mate, 8 weeks is quite a long time…
Maybe you’re so busy that you don’t read the trucking press, but there’s a story about a certain haulier that recently lost their ‘O’ licence that was covered in some depth in the legal section of Commercial Motor and possibly some other publications too…
Although your firm might not be quite so uncompliant, there’s a specific mention of the lack of training and updated info on drivers’ hours in this article from Road Transport . com Just have a look at what was going on and the penalties imposed… CLICK HERE
As I said, most of this is your boss’ responsibility.
i fully agree with you that you should have some form of formal training and have this effect recorded but can the company afford it? i know they should do it and there is no excuse for not doing it but why dont they arrange for one driver (like yourself) to do a course then come back and give the other drivers an insight into it all. 8 weeks is quite a long time to fumble about in the dark, so to speak, with something as important as a tacho. but as long as teh drivers are sticking to thier hours and making manual entries they should be fine
i know you may be a bit worried but being agency i got no formal training what so ever on digi’s when i got my first job on a digi unit and just asked one of the drivers that had been using it for a while and he showed me how to do most things within about 10 minutes and away i went. the only part i would question is your bos saying you dont need to do a printout? if you need to do a printout then run one off, dont worry about him. as long as you make your card available to download (most places i know do it every friday/end of the working week) if they dont download it then it is up to them. it might be worth making a little slip of paper saying something along the lines of " i have made my digicard available for download at Time … Date… to company …but have been refused due to the following reasons…" and have them explain why and sign it (i know an agency driver that does this and as soon as its presented he gets his card downloaded. no one will sign it as it is his proof that he presented it!)
one other note as well, are there spare rolls for the printouts kept in the vehicles? you need to keep enough spares to allow printouts at the side of the road should plod or vosa need them
Giblsa:
…if they dont download it then it is up to them…
Correct, the onus to download the data is 100% on the operator and not the driver, if they choose not to do so there is no comeback on the driver so no need to mess about with bits of paper or disclaimers. Offer the card for downloading and if they don’t do it so be it, walk away and forget about it.
Here is the relevant section from The Passenger and Goods Vehicles (Recording Equipment) (Downloading and Retention of Data) Regulations 2008
Driver cards: downloading data
97E.–(1) This section applies where a transport undertaking is required by article 10 of
the Community Drivers’ Hours Regulation to ensure that data is downloaded from a driver
card issued to a driver.
(2) The undertaking must ensure that all data is downloaded from the card not later than
the end of the download period.
(3) The download period begins and ends as set out in the following table– {Table not copied}
(4) The undertaking must ensure that the data is downloaded from the card–
(a) immediately before the driver ceases to be employed by the undertaking as a
driver, or otherwise to carry out work for the undertaking as a driver;
(b) without delay upon becoming aware that the card has been damaged or is
malfunctioning;
(c) without delay in any circumstances such that the imminent erasure of the data, in
the normal course of use of the card, is reasonably foreseeable;
(d) if it is not possible to do so other than by means of a vehicle unit installed in a
vehicle, immediately before ceasing to control the use of that vehicle.
(5) But subsection (4)(b) does not apply if because of the damage to the card or its
malfunctioning it is impossible to download the data.
No mention of the driver having any responsibility, it’s all down to the transport company.
It is another matter with any required printouts, printouts which have to be legally made in order to make corrections or due to a defective card and not those pointless ones that the agency or the company decide they want you to do every day regardless. For printouts taken because the regulations required them, the onus is on the driver to return them to the company, and note that is the operator you were working for and not the agency. If the agency lose them or fail to return them to the company it could come back on you being the person responsible for their return, potential fine of £2500 so best not to trust the agency with the return procedure. They have to be returned to the company within 43 days of the date of the record.
Thanks guys for comments so far - my company as a lead driver plus a seperate driver/trainer - like i say its a huge international company - everyone is acting as though digi is a new thing and whats thrown everybody is they have replaced 6 lorrys with newer ones earlier than expected, but as ive said 8 weeks now we been using them, i’m told theres 28 pictogram symbols too ? i dont know how to eject my card without printing off lol…1 guy says this, 1 guy says that…i just think its best we all spend a day looking at it and ideas/ querys bounce off eachother - and yes i keep a spare printer roll in my bag just in case. The main reason i wanted to print off during mid shift was to check i had my full break as i didnt know which buttons to press to check it on the machine, sorry to go on but like i say, train us up then we know.
tobytyke:
i’m told theres 28 pictogram symbols too ?
Most of which you don’t need to bother with. They are mostly just for information and will appear on the printout.
tobytyke:
i dont know how to eject my card without printing off
Not sure which model you are using but if it’s a Siemens then it’s easy. At the end of your shift press the eject button, ignition needs to be on, and it will ask you ? end country’ and it will likely UK will be flashing - if you are in the UK press OK. It will then display 24h day, the date and no should be flashing. If yes is flashing press the up or down button until no is flashing and then press the OK button. Your card will appear and no printout. Obviously if you do want a printout then press the up or down arrow to change no to yes before hitting the OK button.
tobytyke:
The main reason i wanted to print off during mid shift was to check i had my full break as i didnt know which buttons to press to check it on the machine
While you are parked up press the down arrow and if you are currently on break it will display the amount taken in the bottom right hand corner of the display, once that displays 15, 30 or 45 minutes depending how much you need or are taking you are good to go. If you are on other work while stationary the amount of any break you have taken toward a 45 will be displayed in the top right hand corner of the display. The bottom right hand corner shows amount of time at current mode setting.
Using the digi tacho is no more difficult than the analogue. For both types of device you need to know how to insert your chart/card, alter the mode switch to record your activities and remove your chart/card at the end of a shift. The additional digi things are taking a printout if one is required - press the OK button 3 times to print current day, and making a manual entry for start time of current shift and end of previous when you insert the card. That pretty much is all there is to it.