An idea for discussion

For your first bonus question……

I have mentioned before, the EU Driver Training Directive. There are some members who are opposed to the EU and think we would be better off out of it. Fair enough, I personally disagree, but that is democracy in action. However, whether we stay in or get out I believe that the Driver Training Directive is going to happen.

Why? Because a) it’s a good idea in principle, and b) because the politicians will use it to gain public support.

We’ve all seen the headlines — speeding juggernaut terrorises little old lady motorist, truck causes motorway mayhem, lorry mows down toddler in street, freddy starr ate my hamster, etc. — these are examples of the public perception of goods vehicles (except maybe the last one).

It is unlikely that this country will be able to withdraw from the EU before the DTD comes into force. If it subsequently leaves then can you imagine any politician standing up and saying “We’re going to scrap the driver training directive because it was imposed by Europe, and that’s why we left!” Cue headlines above and a rapid withdrawal of support for political party. So, not going to happen then.

If we stay in the EU then it comes into force anyway and we have an imposed training burden to cope with. So what can we do about it, or do we need to do anything about it?

There’s lots of guesswork being bandied about regarding what it will involve but the most common suggestions are 5days/270hrs training every 5 years in order to keep doing your job. Then there’s ‘fuel efficiency, drivers hours and customer service’ training which apparently is ‘commonly referred to as a CPC’. Now I’ve just read through the CPC course (thanks The Critic :wink: ) and half of that stuff has no relevance to a driver’s professional competence because the course is set up for operators/TM’s.

If nothing is done about it then we’ll just get lumbered with course that’s only partially relevant and a big bill for the privilege of doing it. So what would be a good alternative?

If we accept the 5 days every 5 years, then we could look at a days worth of training each year for 4 years and maybe a day long driving assessment in the fifth year. And what constitutes a days worth of training? When you set up a lesson or a course you work out how long it should take to present the information and how long it should take to do the test — this is the programmed time. Usually you have to adjust the lesson content to fit the lesson time and the course content dictates the course duration. Simple enough, so if a module programmed time is 2hrs then 4modules would equal a days training. Except you don’t have to do it in one day, you just have to do 4 within one year — back to the continuous professional development idea.

Would you need a driving assessment once every five years? Some would say not, and maybe you don’t. But it couldn’t harm, you might just pick something new up or maybe pass across some of your knowledge and experience which could improve someone else’s professionalism. After all it’s not all about being told what to do, it should be about demonstrating what you know.

That’ll do for now…….

Jules

It seems like the idea may be growing!
A CPC has no relevance to a truck driver but along with an HGV is one of the only qualifications you can take a test and pass, then throw it in a drawer and forget about.
An old Hazchem, now ADR lasts 5 years, A fork truck, Hiab or JCB licence lasts about the same time. We can pass a test 30 plus years ago and never have our driving questioned again! Train Drivers have to be retrained as do Airline Pilots and Ships Captains.

How about this for a plan?

As a qualified driver you will be assessed at regular intervals by a Driver Manager, who in turn is regularly assessed by his manager. They will take a cab ride with you every six months to assess your driving behaviour with different types of truck or gearbox. Increasingly this may be done on simulators in the future. Every two years you will sit a PC based assessment package on rules and regulations. You also get a ‘Safety Briefing’ every few months when you are shown videos on things such as driving in snow or driving techniques in winter as well as being briefed about recent operating problems, rule changes, company policy etc. These biennial tests and Safety Briefings are in the process of being replaced by a twenty-four month cycle of Safety, Training & Update (STUD) days every three months. These will include a test on a different part of the Rule Book each time. Cab ride assessments will become more frequent too. Drivers are also subject to ‘unobtrusive’ assessment by their managers and this includes them riding in the truck, speed gun checks, and Data Recorder downloads.

This isnt my idea but is likely to happen if we dont try to improve things ourselves.

Trucknet has just signed a deal with ERF, MAN. They run a non political organisation called FORTI.

Friends of Road Transport Industry, How about them to assess us, ERF supply the vehicles to use, They get the free advertising, we get the benefits!

The blue writing is taken from a Train Drivers Manual and he doesnt even need to know where he is supposed to be going, or very rarely gets diverted to collect a passenger :stuck_out_tongue:

I am not so sure about all this extra training! but I would go with the Majority…
Maybe extra training is required for drivers who have bumps & scratches but I am not so sure we need to be taught to ■■■■ eggs!

As I have said before this needs to be a drivers guild not a employers of drivers guild!
jmo

I’ll try not to be controversial Lucy :laughing: :laughing:

The idea of a guild is a sound one. Another examination though wouldn’t really be needed. As has been said we’ve all passed our test, and yes I agree anybody can pass a test, but how about with the application form for the guild, a psychological assessment is included.

After all good or bad driving is all about having the right or wrong attitude. The psychological tests used nowadays are designed to root out those with the wrong attitude.

Boots O’Lead wrote:
I would just like to point out to all that the EU Driver Training Directive will come into effect and will affect us all. Even if any of the radical politicos get in power and pull us out of the EU. Anyone who thinks that they will not have to put up with an imposed training burden in the future is deceiving themselves.

no offence meant

Jules

Jules, if we are pulled out of the EU, then their directives wont be anything to us than bog paper mate! They cannot dictate to countries that are not full members. Thats the idea of trying to get out.

quoted by other members of this forum,if we where to get out of the eu and not comply to there directives perhaps they might refuse entry into there countries? and as for a guild how would this stand up in a court of law? and who pays for the extra training for this guild?..As we all know it costs a small fortune to get to the top of our proffesion, and to have assesments over this time is only going to add costs out of the drivers pocket.You could give all those that have already class one or two the guild of drivers but who would assess the people of this guild ? or would they be self assesed ? this guild would have no point of law and in fact would be in a direct conflict with the current laws of this land and the eu as they stand?.As i see the current laws regarding drivers the wra does seem to helping us the driver shorter hours and no inconveneince of being away from home,ok it means that some will not earn the wages that we have become used to but who wonts to work 70 hrs a week?. I think a guild of truck drivers would find it hard to get reconised by the governing bodies and the transport companys,this will only add more cost to there already tight costs,for a driver to demand more because he has this guild as backing would be i think smack of certain blackmail tactics of unions of old ? and may well backfire,only my comments and by no means detrimental to hard work put in by those who are willing to make it work !!

Oddsods, I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick :smiley: .

I think the idea is that, members of the guild will have paid for assessments, extra training on all sorts of driver related points etc. They are therefore better drivers and better qualified driver. That being the case, they deserve better pay than your average Joe and should demand it.
The members wouldn’t be demanding better pay because they where a member of the guild, they would be demanding better pay because they where better drivers and being qualified to be a guild member was proof of that. The higher wages would be paid for by fewer accidents/lower fuel costs/less wear and tear on equipment/quicker turn-around at load/unload points (where applicable eg roping and sheeting) etc.

Obviously recognition by the employers professional bodies would be necessary for this to work. The members of those bodies are the people paying the wages. That is going to take a bit of doing and some proof of the professionalism of the drivers guild members would be needed. One proof could easily be outside training establishments assessing the members driving, or the guilds own assessors who would be assessing the driving of prospective members.

I’m not a lawyer but I don’t see how a professional body for drivers is in direct conflict with any current law. There are plenty of other guilds for many other trades, with similar aims to what we are discussing here.