What is the minimum hours allowed from being given a job to the job start time.
e.g. I finished at 7pm and at 10pm I am given a 4am start by an agency.
The permanent drivers don’t have this problem.
I cant go to sleep as I don’t have a start time, and when I do get a start time there’s not enough time to sleep.
I have spoken to the agency many times about this and been told there is no minimum lead in time to a shift.
I have looked everywhere for some legislation and would be grateful for some guidance.
The client setup is such that this happens way too often to be safe practice.
I’ve no idea what you mean by “start lead in time”, the agency can give you a job at a minutes notice just as you have the right to refuse to do it.
Your post is a bit confused, you talk about finishing at 19:00 and at 22:00 and being told to start at 04:00, but if you finish at 22:00 you can’t start again at 04:00, you have to have at-least nine hours rest and you can only do that twice a week.
If they won’t give you rest periods you’re happy with your only option is to find a permanent job or find another agency to work for.
tachograph:
I’ve no idea what you mean by “start lead in time”, the agency can give you a job at a minutes notice just as you have the right to refuse to do it.
Your post is a bit confused, you talk about finishing at 19:00 and at 22:00 and being told to start at 04:00, but if you finish at 22:00 you can’t start again at 04:00, you have to have at-least nine hours rest and you can only do that twice a week.
If they won’t give you rest periods you’re happy with your only option is to find a permanent job or find another agency to work for.
I think the OP means, finish at 1900 and the agency let him/her know at 2200 the 0400 start time.
Personally, I’d tell them what time you intend going to bed (roughly) and if they haven’t got the start time to you by then, you cannot guarantee doing the shift. But it depends how much you need the work. You need to get your sleep, whichever way you view it.
Otherwise, tachograph’s advice is good - find something else!
Its a balancing act. I would tell them its not acceptable to be calling me after say, 7.00pm except maybe exceptional circumstances.
Theres plenty of work out there at the moment and theres no need to be mucked about. So don`t be.
I got messed about two days running last July so I told them I was offski. I now work elsewhere for quite a bit more money!!
Its a him and I’ve been agency and full time on and off for 20 odd years. I’m a sparky and work contracts so drive in between jobs.
Sorry if im not using the right language but i’m trying to explain the best i can.
I’m up to speed on minimum rest and reduced rest.
And Truculent and thundercatman are right. Im given a start time at say 5/6 hours beforehand.
Yes I need the money but i really dont need to be tired. Yes theres pressure to take it, as in well that’s all we’ve got take it or leave it.
i’m currently working in Swinetown for a major retailer of clothing and food for the more mature person. run by dhl.
they get their times from a main site, pass it to Swinetown at say 7pm. who then count up agency no.s needed and pass to 1st tier agency. who then cherrypick and pass the rest to second tier. who then ring me.
now i know i can just get another job somewhere but i kinda like the work.
im calling unite on tuesday for a definitive answer but thought i’d run it past you guys first.
there must be some guidance in a regulation somewhere.
P.s. Swinetown is not a real place. but i rekon you can work it out.
Simple solution just put your phone on silent or turn it off. Or do as i do get a second phone use it as a work phone for giving to agencies and companies means can turn it off. Maybe loose a shift here or there but if them waking you up is making you really tired its no good.
There is no legislation stating the amount of time you must be notified about a job, As Tachograph says it could be one minute
totally correct.
In fact I suppose that one possible interpretation of the rules in the example you give, is that if you went in at 04.00 you wouldn’t have had 9 hours rest, only 6 hours (22.00-0400) meaning you are breaking the law yourself.
(assuming of course the previous shift was driving on tacho)
Why don’t you just tell them that in future if they haven’t given you a start time by (say) 7.30pm then you will not be available for work the next day. If things change and there is work for you the next day then they can ring at (say) 6.30 am for a start time of (say)8am. This always worked perfectly well for me, but then I worked for a decent agency.
wyndaff:
they get their times from a main site, pass it to Swinetown at say 7pm. who then count up agency no.s needed and pass to 1st tier agency. who then cherrypick and pass the rest to second tier. who then ring me.
now i know i can just get another job somewhere but i kinda like the work.
You like the work so sign up for 1st tier agency to get earlier notification?
Its your responsibility to be fit to drive, so if you don’t think you will have enough sleep then tell them !!
my agency try it all the time with me ( ok i do nights ) but i have refused shifts before because they have not given me enough warning before the start of a shift !!
Many thanks for your thoughts guys.
for me it breaks down like this.
If I go first Tier Agency I get maybe an extra 30-45 minutes notice.
If I say I need a start time by 9pm for a 6am start, and refuse to budge, I wont get work probably 3 days out of 5.
I understand I can walk but if I do another driver will be in exactly the same position.
The profession has undergone a massive shift towards safety with many changes for the operator and driver.
You guys must appreciate, this is done for our/everyone’s safety.
My problem is the system used to run this retail firm is flawed, in that someone (me or a n other) is always going to be asked (pressured) into taking a shift with not enough sleep.
Now its o’k to say refuse it, jump agencies etc, but that will only solve things for me.
Someone, is going to be on the road, whilst not having enough sleep,3 days out of 5, because the system transport firm use is flawed. And this is exactly the situation that the regulations are there to stop.
Now I don’t think for a moment I can change anything, but after all the legislation and professional drivers contribution towards safety it, it is disappointing that this is shrugged off as a event that just happens in the trade.
The experience and cynic in me says that whatever the situation there will always be someone (or a queue of someones) willing to do whatever for a few quid, a situation such as yours affects so few that there will never be enough voices making themselves heard to force change, you have to look out for yourself first and foremost. As difficult as it may seem, especially when tired, making a change can be beneficial, maybe not financially but to quality of life. Making the change from stupid o’clock starts to day work only on agency has helped me a great deal, certainly going to be a several thousand down on income but I can wear it until something worth pursuing full time presents itself.
Given the driver shortage much proclaimed for last September, if it’s going to bite it’ll be over the next 5-7 months, maybe worth positioning yourself to take advantage of better opportunities to come?
End of the day gotta suit yourself, doesent matter what others are willing to do.
If you feel you dont get enough sleep because of this agency calling, turn your phone off or find another job. If your tired all the time are a danger on the roads, and will wreck your health, prob find when you get a weekly rest end up wanting to sleep most of it, no life.
Supermarkets and the likes are bad for this, use a lot of agency staff so they can change start times, cancel shifts, tend to get really messed about.
Agency i work for, the woman at it was telling me in her last job she used to deal with supplying drivers to a supermarket. Not uncommon she said in the space for a few hours, for them to book a load of drivers, then change start times, then cancel a load of them, then want them back an hour later and then later want to change start times, said it was a nightmare and she bore the brunt of it from drivers getting ■■■■■■ off or unable to get the drivers back cause they got a shift elsewhere and the supermarket going crazy cause can’t supply drivers.
Reality is a lot of companies and huge amount of agencies don’t really care about drivers, so you really gotta suit yourself
Not everyone needs 8 or more hours sleep a night. I know quite a few people who never have more than 5 of 6 hours but are quite safe to do their job. I generally have 4-5 hours a night and have done for about 40 years. You need more, which is fine, but that is up to you to sort out and control. We don’t heed even more one size fits all legislation.
