Been looking round at agency work on sites like indeed , cv library etc lately .
Any body got thoughts /ideas on being paye for more than one agency ?
Can it be done ?
If not , why not ?
Cheers in advance , Mick .
Nothing legally stopping you having multiple PAYE agency jobs.
You should, but aren’t required to let the other agencies you do work with, know you have previous hours that week with another agency. That’s about it
You might have tax troubles as the second income may be taxed at a higher rate than your first agency job - If you are doing work for 2 agencies, Ltd Company begins to make sense as you would be outside of IR35 regs and able to take advantage of that, if you were so inclined.
Hyh:
You might have tax troubles as the second income may be taxed at a higher rate than your first agency job - If you are doing work for 2 agencies,.
Not really troubles, it’s just that your tax-free allowance will only be allocated to one of these jobs. So if you do three days a week for Agency 1 and two days a week for Agency 2 then you will pay 20% on everything you earn for Agency 2 but this will not mean paying any more tax than if you worked five days for agency 1.
You might end up paying more tax if agency 1 goes quiet and you do the bulk of your work for Agency 2 but this will get refunded after the end of the tax year.
Hyh:
You might have tax troubles as the second income may be taxed at a higher rate than your first agency job - If you are doing work for 2 agencies,
No you won’t. If your entire personal allowance is with one agency then when you work for the other that personal allowance won’t be applied even if you’ve not done any work for the first one. That would result in an overpayment of income tax which would be refunded. You will however not pay more tax for two, three, ten, one hundred jobs than if you had a single job earning the same as the combined income from all of them.
Ltd Company begins to make sense as you would be outside of IR35 regs and able to take advantage of that, if you were so inclined.
No you won’t. Working for more than one client doesn’t put you outside of IR35 regs. If you work for one client you could be in it for both, out of it for both or in it for one or more and out of it for the others. It’s done on a client by client basis and it’s the clients who decide whether to treat you as in IR35 or not, not you.
Harry Monk:
Hyh:
You might have tax troubles as the second income may be taxed at a higher rate than your first agency job - If you are doing work for 2 agencies,.Not really troubles, it’s just that your tax-free allowance will only be allocated to one of these jobs. So if you do three days a week for Agency 1 and two days a week for Agency 2 then you will pay 20% on everything you earn for Agency 2 but this will not mean paying any more tax than if you worked five days for agency 1.
You might end up paying more tax if agency 1 goes quiet and you do the bulk of your work for Agency 2 but this will get refunded after the end of the tax year.
Paying any kind of additional tax is a trouble for many, in this situation you could be potentially paying more than if you stuck with 1 agency. In addition to less hours worked for either agency as you are sharing your time, less holiday time/pay and other “benefits” you might get working with just 1 agency on PAYE.
Conor:
Hyh:
Ltd Company begins to make sense as you would be outside of IR35 regs and able to take advantage of that, if you were so inclined.
No you won’t. Working for more than one client doesn’t put you outside of IR35 regs. If you work for one client you could be in it for both, out of it for both or in it for one or more and out of it for the others. It’s done on a client by client basis and it’s the clients who decide whether to treat you as in IR35 or not, not you.
I think you need to have a word with a chartered accountant familiar on this topic to see the client does not decide you are inside of IR35 regs or not. Why would a client, or even agency be aware of your entire financial situation in regards to income(s) etc? Especially when the scenario the OP has presented means the multiple incomes might not even be aware of the others.
The only possible way you could think a client dictates whether you are inside or outside or IR35 regs, is if they’re holding your hand telling you what to do, when to do it and what routes, working under their direct supervision all day without any thinking on the side of the driver - I’ve never done such work on agency but I imagine some might exist somewhere. That is only one point of what comes inside/outside of IR35 and there’s always solutions to problems, especially if there are grey areas to profit from.
Ofcourse, typically you wont be dealing with the client’s accountant (Or accounting team) that would be familiar with HMRC regs etc, so I’m not sure why you would trust a client’s TM or office gremlin to advise you of IR35 regs lol
If anyone wishes to go down the Ltd Co route and work outside of IR35 regs, consult a suitable accountant, as there is lots of misinformation out there - Kinda obvious really.
iirc at one point I was registered PAYE with a dozen agencies at the same time, as soon as the work from the odd ones became a trickle I whittled them down to 2-3, before finally settling down with 1.
Anyone who decides to go down the Ltd Co path is a mug
Hyh:
I think you need to have a word with a chartered accountant familiar on this topic to see the client does not decide you are inside of IR35 regs or not. Why would a client, or even agency be aware of your entire financial situation in regards to income(s) etc? Especially when the scenario the OP has presented means the multiple incomes might not even be aware of the others.The only possible way you could think a client dictates whether you are inside or outside or IR35 regs, is if they’re holding your hand telling you what to do, when to do it and what routes, working under their direct supervision all day without any thinking on the side of the driver - I’ve never done such work on agency but I imagine some might exist somewhere. That is only one point of what comes inside/outside of IR35 and there’s always solutions to problems, especially if there are grey areas to profit from.
Ofcourse, typically you wont be dealing with the client’s accountant (Or accounting team) that would be familiar with HMRC regs etc, so I’m not sure why you would trust a client’s TM or office gremlin to advise you of IR35 regs lol
If anyone wishes to go down the Ltd Co route and work outside of IR35 regs, consult a suitable accountant, as there is lots of misinformation out there - Kinda obvious really.
This is all irrelevant. Part of the IR35 regs is the Right of Substitution. Will the end client accept a substitute arranged by you in the event that you are unable to complete the assignment yourself? The answer to that is : no. Therefore you are inside IR35 regs. End of story. There is also the Control rule which every ltd co driver will fall foul of as well:
article:
Where: does the client control the location of where the work is completed?When: can the client dictate to the contractor specifically when the tasks must be completed?
What: this refers to the scope of the work, and works both ways. Can the client treat the contractor like a ‘tail-end Charlie’, allocating tasks at whim? This places control in the hands of the client. Alternatively, can the contractor decide to press on when a variation occurs without seeking approval from the client? This places control in the hands of the contractor.
How: is the client providing detailed instructions to the contractor about how they should complete the work?
All of those elements are dictated by the client, not the driver = inside IR35.
10% NI and 40% Tax on all 2nd and subsequent PAYE jobs…
R420:
[ This is all irrelevant. Part of the IR35 regs is the Right of Substitution. Will the end client accept a substitute arranged by you in the event that you are unable to complete the assignment yourself? The answer to that is : no. Therefore you are inside IR35 regs. End of storyarticle:
[snip] All of those elements are dictated by the client, not the driver = inside IR35.
Assuming you are currently or have been an agency worker in the past, it sounds like we have worked at very different agencies. When I’ve called in sick, yes I’ve arranged cover. The agency certainly had no issue and were even greatful.
Quoting “an article” without referencing it makes it worthless - None the less, what you quoted as black and white is many shades of grey, as it is simply a question of interpretation of the rules - This is a reason why accountants charge what they do and why people will pay.
As I said in my last post on the last line, consult a suitable accountant, yes it may cost more than than Googling things yourself but they are the ones filing your accounts at the end of the day and it is their name on the filing. They know how far the rules can be stretched, without being broken - A decent one will anyway.
In this day and age, the pay difference between PAYE and Ltd Co being only £2-£3 differences for driving work, in my opinion doesn’t make it worth it when doing the more common type of agency work out there, but for those in different situations it can. For example: Using 1 registered company to provide a range of services related to driving and other things they might do on the side, thereby having multiple “customers” some of which might even be agencies etc.
Hyh:
Assuming you are currently or have been an agency worker in the past, it sounds like we have worked at very different agencies. When I’ve called in sick, yes I’ve arranged cover. The agency certainly had no issue and were even greatful.Quoting “an article” without referencing it makes it worthless - None the less, what you quoted as black and white is many shades of grey, as it is simply a question of interpretation of the rules - This is a reason why accountants charge what they do and why people will pay.
As I said in my last post on the last line, consult a suitable accountant, yes it may cost more than than Googling things yourself but they are the ones filing your accounts at the end of the day and it is their name on the filing. They know how far the rules can be stretched, without being broken - A decent one will anyway.
In this day and age, the pay difference between PAYE and Ltd Co being only £2-£3 differences for driving work, in my opinion doesn’t make it worth it when doing the more common type of agency work out there, but for those in different situations it can. For example: Using 1 registered company to provide a range of services related to driving and other things they might do on the side, thereby having multiple “customers” some of which might even be agencies etc.
Don’t talk rubbish please. You have not substituted yourself for another driver with any agency. None of them would accept it and would require the substitute to go through the full induction, reference checking, right to work checking, ID checking, Ltd Co due diligence and everything else that’s involved. The notion that you just called the agency and said “sorry folks, no can do, but here’s the name of a mate of mine who I’ve got to cover for me” is utter nonsense. And that’s even before we get to the small matter of the end client not accepting them because they are not assessed and an unknown quantity.
You can find the IR35 regs on hundreds of websites, official and non-official. As a Ltd Co driver you should be well versed with the IR35 regs already yet you act like the Right of Substitution clause has come as a surprise to you and you have completely ignored all 4 points from the Control clause - all of which put you inside IR35. There is no “many shades of grey” or “open to interpretation”. The rules are clear. Ltd Co drivers fall inside IR35 under not just 1 but several clauses. No Chartered Accountant is needed to tell you this. The facts are right there for you on the HMRC website.
R420 you are probably wasting your time arguing the point with Hyh, leave them to follow the path they have chosen and any potential consequences that may come from that choice.
Winseer:
10% NI and 40% Tax on all 2nd and subsequent PAYE jobs…
Nope - not unless the earnings from second (or subsequent) employment takes your total gross pay over the higher tax rate threshold (after deduction of personal allowance).
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Roymondo:
Winseer:
10% NI and 40% Tax on all 2nd and subsequent PAYE jobs…Nope - not unless the earnings from second (or subsequent) employment takes your total gross pay over the higher tax rate threshold (after deduction of personal allowance).
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
When I was working at Manpower as second agency to Staffline Jan-March of last year, I was being taxed @ W1/M1 40% higher rate on the manpower earnings - on ALL of those manpower earnings, fairly high, because of the decent RM hourly rate combined with me doing 40+ hours and all that.
To get a “Rebate” of all that over-paid tax - I had to either transfer “main employer status” from Staffline to Manpower, OR simply resign from Manpower before the end of the financial year…
I ended up doing both of those things, - but I did get that rebate straight away as a result… No waiting until May+ to get it like one used to get “tax rebates” in the past…
I reckon that Manpower must have taken the decision that because I was doing 700-800 with them, and also doing Sundays @ 180 for Staffline on top, that me grossing near on £1000 for a few weeks so close to the end of the financial year - would easily put me over the higher rate threshold… It didn’t in the end, because I left Manpower before the end of March and went exclusively with Staffline from there…
I’m still exclusively with staffline, having had a full flat-out year @ Waitrose through them, but had no work since the end of last month by this point. There’s no point going to another agency and resigning from this one, so I’ll just sit pat for as long as I can, and hope I qualify for some kind of furlough payment at the end of it. Presumably, if I were to pick up any work elsewhere whilst staying at Staffline, I would get hammered for more of this W1/M1 40% tax thing, so I can’t say I’m very keen to chase even the highest hourly rates elsewhere at this moment in time…
It was a shame that the work had dried up by April 1st, as I was led to undestand that our PAYE hourly rate was being uplifted to equal the Ltd Rate at that point… even if it has since been kicked down the road for a year because of the lockdown and all…
FFS you can’t make “Sod’s Law” up - can you?
The “old” system is about to hand over a decent pay rise we’ve been waiting YEARS to get - only for the sky to fall on our heads the day before it is bloody well implemented… .ARRGHH!!! 
Winseer:
Roymondo:
Winseer:
10% NI and 40% Tax on all 2nd and subsequent PAYE jobs…Nope - not unless the earnings from second (or subsequent) employment takes your total gross pay over the higher tax rate threshold (after deduction of personal allowance).
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
When I was working at Manpower as second agency to Staffline Jan-March of last year, I was being taxed @ W1/M1 40% higher rate on the manpower earnings - on ALL of those manpower earnings, fairly high, because of the decent RM hourly rate combined with me doing 40+ hours and all that.
W1/M1 tax codes are almost nothing to do with having a second PAYE employment and pretty much everything to do with having started a new PAYE job without a P45 from a previous employer (although the reason for this could well be because it is a “second job”). Once the dust has settled and HMRC have got the full picture from all your current employments they will allocate a “BR” tax code to oneof your employments (usually the lowest earning one, as this will be regarded as your “secondary” employment). The effect of this code is that you are taxed at Basic Rate (BR…) on the whole of your income from this employment. Your Personal Allowance (and any other Allowances) will be applied to your main employment. If HMRC’s calculations indicate that your total income from all PAYE employments will push you into the Higher Tax rates, they may well tweak the tax code applied to your main employment to make the tax take for the whole year more-or-less correct.
But regardless of all this, my point stands - you do NOT automatically pay tax at 40% on any second or subsequent PAYE employment(s). I’ve been in exactly this situation for the past 10 years…
This IR35 thing…
Is becoming more like the Ahabs and Isreali’s not agreeing on anything.
For what it’s worth. The tax man want’s his slice of pie, he’s tired of watching people not paying what he considers is enough tax. What ever the rights and wrongs, legitimate arguments for and against, he’s coming after anyone who he thinks is taking the mickey. Considering he has greater powers of entry and asset siezure than anyone else in the country, can backdate interest on what you owe him at a positively ridiculous rate and can take all the time he sees fit to make the case work for him, I’d just get onto PAYE and have an easy life.
I only do 1 paye agency job , but I will
Say in 40 odd years of working as employed I can hardly remember getting a letter from the tax office , up to a apx a month ago on agency paye it seemed like I was getting 2/3 per week , always saying I
Owed them , this , that & my tax code was changing to x , y ,z , ( even though it never
Changed ) . This stopped apx a month ago , why I’ve no idea .mrs was having kittens
I’m guessing but really haven’t a clue , it’s the way agency is paid , you get 6 weeks at 1 k so they assume you going to earn 50 but take no account of the hol weeks ( in my case a lot of when you don’t get paid ( hol pay is paid in my wage every week due to them deducting a % ( think it 12 ) ,
So they assume your going to earn 50k + ( 52 x 1 k ) , but in my case the amount of hols I intend to have would actually give a yearly figure more like £30 k
To be honest I’d bin this agency lark , but I do like the option of as many hols as I like
Best luck with 2
Dozy your on Stobarts/Logistics People pseudo pay which is done by a 3rd party payroll company, you are not paid by either Stobarts or Logistics People. That is why your getting lots of letters from HMRC, Stobarts/Logistics People have put you in this position so that your not PAYE on their books, the 3rd party payroll company is technically your employer unless they’ve they’ve somehow managed to set you up in a umbrella style Ltd Co and convinced you that it’s PAYE.
If that was the case you would also be paying employer and employee NiC’s.
peirre:
Dozy your on Stobarts/Logistics People pseudo pay which is done by a 3rd party payroll company, you are not paid by either Stobarts or Logistics People. That is why your getting lots of letters from HMRC, Stobarts/Logistics People have put you in this position so that your not PAYE on their books, the 3rd party payroll company is technically your employer unless they’ve they’ve somehow managed to set you up in a umbrella style Ltd Co and convinced you that it’s PAYE.
If that was the case you would also be paying employer and employee NiC’s.
Agencies are really great aren’t they?
Going to so much trouble, setting up extra companies, employing extra staff, just so their drivers are better off.
Franglais:
Agencies are really great aren’t they?
Going to so much trouble, setting up extra companies, employing extra staff, just so their drivers are better off.
The more I read about the setup he being paid by, the more I suspect that it is an old style umbrella which so many people have fallen foul of in the past.
My agency employ me direct and they have their own payroll department. Any issues with payroll I’m able to speak to either my line manager or the payroll department direct to get it sorted, and I don’t get numerous letter from HMRC enquiring about my contributions