Hi everyone. I’m new to this forum so apologies if anything is wrong. After searching through many posts on here I’m still none the wiser about my situation. I was wondering if any one could give me some advice on this:- I am set up as a ltd company hgv driver. I have been working through an agency for the last 4 years and everything has been great untill recently. The agency I do most of my work through has been taken over by another nationwide agency.
Before I always sent an invoice with my VAT number and total paid hours at agreed rate. This worked great as I was paid exactly the same as my invoice into my business account. This gave me all my records for my accountant and the HMRC plus I was able to work out how much VAT I needed to repay.
This new agency now tells me they do not require an invoice from me and that I will be paid by what the client and my time sheet of hours match up too! The problem being is now they pay me incorrectly to what my invoice should be!
I point this out to them that my wage is wrong by a couple of pounds and pence and they tell me to generate an invoice for my own records after ; on what I have been paid by them!
How can you do this when you don’t know how they arrived at the wrong amount!
All my accounts are out now and don’t match up to what I should of been paid and now it’s impossible to sort out the VAT! Also I used to receive a pay slip with the breakdown of hours for every week. Now they don’t send any to me and I’m missing the last 11 weeks and counting!
Sorry for being so long winded about this but really do not know what to do now and just want paying the right amount that I’ve worked for.
Any help and suggestions would be most welcome.
Cheers Neil.
How on earth can they generate an invoice with the VAT content on it as you are claiming that off them? They legally have to have an invoice from you, with your VAT number on it.
If they think it is included, ask them what VAT number they are putting it against because they are supposed to have one on the bill they allot this money as payment against.
They sound a pretty strange lot to me. I usually find it exactly the other way round, “We can’t pay you as we haven’t received you bill”. “Err, it was that thing I placed in your hand last Wednesday…It might be in the spank mag you were more interested in…”
it sounds like the “self billing system” some agencies opperate, where your paid via the timesheet info, though Id be phoning them asap to correct the errors. With this system they would still send you a self billing invoice, and remittance note (payslip) with a breakdown of hours, VAT etc There also may be minor timekeeping issues where the start finish times you have, and those the agy/client have may be +/- 15-30 mins difference, sometimes you may just have to take the small loss due to the timekeeping error and claw it back another day :wink: Generating dummy invoices for your own records is a good idea, and this is what theyve suggested you do
Hi there and thanks for the responses. The trouble is they don’t send me any invoice/pay slip stating how they have paid me. It just seems to me they make a figure up roughly around what you earn.
I’ve just been in touch with them again asking about last weeks discrepancy and been told they have paid me at a different rate but have missed off an hour and half of my weekly shift!
Every Friday the monies go into my bank and I check in the evening to match what it should be at the agreed rate. When this is wrong I phone this agency over the weekend and I’m told to ring Monday morning as no one is in the office until 08.00 !
I ring Monday morning and I’m then told its to late as payroll as been done for last week!
How can I run my business with all this. How unprofessional is it all!
So, you could de=register for VAT, say nothing to the agency and they would still carry on doing as they have, issuing money on the figure they assume you would want. You have just had a 20% increase in your rates mate!
mancutd:
Hi there and thanks for the responses. The trouble is they don’t send me any invoice/pay slip stating how they have paid me. It just seems to me they make a figure up roughly around what you earn.
I’ve just been in touch with them again asking about last weeks discrepancy and been told they have paid me at a different rate but have missed off an hour and half of my weekly shift!
Every Friday the monies go into my bank and I check in the evening to match what it should be at the agreed rate. When this is wrong I phone this agency over the weekend and I’m told to ring Monday morning as no one is in the office until 08.00 !
I ring Monday morning and I’m then told its to late as payroll as been done for last week!How can I run my business with all this. How unprofessional is it all!
I`d insist that they send me a breakdown of hours / rates.
If they refuse … walk away, its better to save face than get in the brown stuff should HMRC come knocking for a spot check
Ive just spent and hour sorting out a similar cockup, where someone paid 1/2 the invoice I submitted (only paid me for 1 of the 2 jobs I did), then paid the error on the following week. So it meant the expected monies from the 1st invoice was underpaid, and the following 2nd invoice (and the monies expected on that) where overpaid. it sounds a little more complicated than it is & more of a paper chase, but a percentage of each invoice, I sweep across into another bank account (to pay HMRC etc) where ascew. But cross checking the differences meant there where only a few £s difference and will easily be redressed
DoYouMeanMe?:
So, you could de=register for VAT, say nothing to the agency and they would still carry on doing as they have, issuing money on the figure they assume you would want. You have just had a 20% increase in your rates mate!
… and if HMRC find out, its monopoly time 
peirre:
DoYouMeanMe?:
So, you could de=register for VAT, say nothing to the agency and they would still carry on doing as they have, issuing money on the figure they assume you would want. You have just had a 20% increase in your rates mate!… and if HMRC find out, its monopoly time
Not at all Peirre. Where have you demanded VAT you are not entitled to have? And as I have just de-registered one of my companies that works wholly for private customers, labour intensively and was therefore a pain to them I can assure you that there is no requirement to tell anyone that you have done so. I still don’t understand how a company can give VAT that is not against a demand for it, your invoice. VAT should be paid and recorded against the recipients number on his invoice.
It does sound like self billing but they should still be issuing a confirmation so you know what you have earned, then is the time to raise an issue before the bank transfer is done.
Another reason why I wouldn’t ■■■■ on an agency.
I think you can be pretty sure that they are helping themselves to any alleged discrepancies in hours worked. Fifteen minutes every (other) day times the number of drivers on their books will add up to a tidy sum. This is quite possibly the reason for the way they are acting. Looks like you are going to have to present client-signed timesheets with your invoice and keep a copy for your records.
Sorry to say that I wouldn’t be surprised if you then find that they start ‘altering’ the agreed hourly rate.
Clearly states that under vat deregistration rules that you need to notify any company you work for that operates a self billing arrangement , looks like you might be getting a visit from the vat man 
Noworries:
Clearly states that under vat deregistration rules that you need to notify any company you work for that operates a self billing arrangement , looks like you might be getting a visit from the vat man
But I don’t think the OP has entered into any such arrangement. An arrangement usually needs to be arranged between a minimum of two parties, not just done off one’s back, but it’s all academic anyway, I was just trying to think of a way this guy can win out of a no-win situation.
I would never get involved with any self-billing crud or anything like it. How the hell do you take someone to court for default of payment on an invoice you haven’t raised? I firmly believe in the old fashioned ways. I do work and bill you, you pay and don’t even think of trying to screw me.
Good afternoon everyone. Firstly I would like to say a big thankyou to you all for your advice and input.
Today has been quite productive in this situation. After making more phone calls I have successfully managed to attain all of my missing pay slips through email. After checking all these against my figures I now have all the information I need.
Firstly I have now found out I’m getting paid at different rates according to which client I am working for and also I’m being stopped an hour for break instead of just the normal 45 mins at one client. Couple this together with a percentage of night rate ( hours before 6.00am - after 18.00 ) I’m am finally able to match my wage and generate an invoice for my own records at least!
It’s clear to me now that my agency office in Bristol has not got a clue what the head office in St.Albans ( who do payroll now by the way ) are doing and what rates they agree to pay me from the client.
At least now I’m able to keep my accounts in order and I’m gradually building a picture of what terms and pay I’m working under with the various clients.
Looking forward to the weekend and a few well deserved pints!
Cheers again everyone .
Good I’m glad you got it sorted and have a beer for me.
Its not Blue Arrow or subsidiary you work for is it?
No it’s not Blue Arrow. The agency before that was great was Avondrivers but this has been taken over by an agency who are trying to sweep up across the country! They are called Nationwide Driver supply or N.D.S for short.
followed your thread with great interest. After struggling to get payslips altered with the correct hours, rate, breaks, PAYE and NIC, I formed Ltd Co and raise invoices to the two agencies for whm i work. I have worked hard to establish a good working relationship witht he agencies and their staff so there is now a bit of two-way respect/trust. But I do query any discrepancy between invoice and the payment which appears in my bank. I claim every discrepancy as a "bad debt" in my self assessmant tax return. I have stressed to the agencies that I have an established hourly rate and I must be advised of ay deviation from that prior to the job. Any clients who abuse the system by making un-authorised deductions get put on my black-list whichi try to pass on to other drivers.
Not a perfect system but the agencies won’t accept my suggestion of giving me direct debit access to their bank account.
mancutd:
N.D.S for short.
Nationwide
Deductions by
Stealth 
…and I like the sound of the VAT plan. Could also be applied to your whole income tax bill. ie are you accepting this money from the agency as a net payment. Is there a written contract between you and the agency?