truckman020:
its the age old argument,i have been agency and I am now full time,if any company I worked for as an agency paid their own drivers the same I would take up an offer of employment if asked,i never wanted to be agency, it was a means to an end[paying the bills]also bear in mind if an agency driver is on say £12 per hour then employers have to be paying at least £20 an hour for the agencies cut,i myself will never understand it,because employers are allways saying they cant afford to pay drivers more yet pay agencies £20+per hour
Where did you get that information regarding rates? I know the difference in rates between what the client pays and what I get paid is far less than £8 an hour. In fact, the agency makes a loss on Sundays by paying more than they get paid but she thinks we deserve a Sunday rate even if they don’t receive it from the client
Who on earth told you that??
Every agency I’ve ever known - it’s the other way around. The agency get paid extra by the client - which they most often do NOT pass fully onto the actual driver.
the maoster:
^^^^ where I work I know for a fact that once the agency drivers go onto overtime (10+ hours/Sat/Sun) then the drivers earn more than the agency charge, the agency accept this as it’s a “loss leader” in as much as it’s a nationwide contract that pays drivers less at other depots. Swings and roundabouts.
Agency rate is often more than standard full timer rate.
Full time overtime rate is more than agency rate.
Agency on overtime - trumps all - IF you can get some.
F&W had a system where if they wanted cover for a 10-15 hour shift - they’d go to an agency that didn’t pay overtime after so many hours to fill it.
If it was a 6-9 hour shift - they’d give that one to an agency that paid say, overtime after 8 hours. 9 hours with your break taken off meant that you never got any overtime of course…
truckman020:
its the age old argument,i have been agency and I am now full time,if any company I worked for as an agency paid their own drivers the same I would take up an offer of employment if asked,i never wanted to be agency, it was a means to an end[paying the bills]also bear in mind if an agency driver is on say £12 per hour then employers have to be paying at least £20 an hour for the agencies cut,i myself will never understand it,because employers are allways saying they cant afford to pay drivers more yet pay agencies £20+per hour
Where did you get that information regarding rates? I know the difference in rates between what the client pays and what I get paid is far less than £8 an hour. In fact, the agency makes a loss on Sundays by paying more than they get paid but she thinks we deserve a Sunday rate even if they don’t receive it from the client
Who on earth told you that??
Every agency I’ve ever known - it’s the other way around. The agency get paid extra by the client - which they most often do NOT pass fully onto the actual driver.
I believe my eyes, not my ears. I have seen the rates for myself in the office. I regularly pop in for a chat. I know agencys have a bad name generally but there are the odd few that are trustworthy and the one I work for have never given me reason to doubt them and i do check stories as best I can
One of the reasons I was an agency driver was if the place was crap and run by titheads, I just told the agency and didn’t go back, I could also work when I wanted, and better money as you said.
It’s just a myth that agency drivers are paid more.
They certainly aren’t at our place. A friend of mine is another example; Ltd company agency driver and he charges cough cough (gets what he’s given) less than my hourly rate.
There’s been a few posts on here recently from honest agency drivers complaining about being paid less than the proper drivers.
truckman020:
its the age old argument,i have been agency and I am now full time,if any company I worked for as an agency paid their own drivers the same I would take up an offer of employment if asked,i never wanted to be agency, it was a means to an end[paying the bills]also bear in mind if an agency driver is on say £12 per hour then employers have to be paying at least £20 an hour for the agencies cut,i myself will never understand it,because employers are allways saying they cant afford to pay drivers more yet pay agencies £20+per hour
Where did you get that information regarding rates? I know the difference in rates between what the client pays and what I get paid is far less than £8 an hour. In fact, the agency makes a loss on Sundays by paying more than they get paid but she thinks we deserve a Sunday rate even if they don’t receive it from the client
Who on earth told you that??
Every agency I’ve ever known - it’s the other way around. The agency get paid extra by the client - which they most often do NOT pass fully onto the actual driver.
I believe my eyes, not my ears. I have seen the rates for myself in the office. I regularly pop in for a chat. I know agencys have a bad name generally but there are the odd few that are trustworthy and the one I work for have never given me reason to doubt them and i do check stories as best I can
Hmm. What you saying does kinda make sense here from my own experience tromping around various agencies when I first started. The agency I eventually ended with - were able to give me the work I wanted (Nights & Weekends) whereas the other ones had some blag about "only getting the cushy weekend rates as overtime - you had to do 40 hours monday-friday to qualify for the £16 sunday stuff. f— that!
I pitched the same with all agencies I applied to: I wasn’t interested in any of the sub-£10ph work monday-friday - I ONLY wanted the high rates that were only available for the weekend work. Fair enough having to work weekends to get the rates I wanted, but FFS I should not have to “qualify” by working full time during that same week beforehand! No WONDER they have such trouble covering the weekend night shifts in particular!
They agency I have been with for the past 4 years (SMS) let me cherry pick the shifts I wanted to work. No pressure on “having to work weekdays” at all. Of course, if a cushy number came up that happened to be a monday-friday - then I could still grab it with both hands if desired… The only shifts that pay less than £10ph are those that start before breakfast - so guess who avoids such shifts like the plague!
If I’m working mid-week - it’ll be at night rate, cos I’m finishing after midnight. There are plenty of other agencies who’ll try and pay you day rate for starting “before 6pm” and then blag you onto a 15 hours booking off at say, 08:45 - FFS taking the ■■■■ or what?
One should pick an agency with care. The agencies that are “bad” for me - might be great for someone else who WANTS a load of pre-breakfast starts for less than a tenner per hour after all… “One man’s meat” argument as always.
Higher hourly rates - either as full time or agency - mean nothing if one has to jump through uncomfortable hoops to “qualify” for it.
The hourly rate at Royal Mail is supposed to be real good for example - but as a full timer, you’ll be heavily restricted upon getting any overtime, and as agency - you’ll not get the parity pay you signed up for - until after 20 weeks is it? Even if it’s 13 weeks - if you’re not put into RM by September - you’ll be expected to work flat out across Christmas for an inferior rate that bears no resemblance with the meaty rates that enticed you to sign up for Manpower, Pertemps, or whatever in the first place.
I once applied for agencies putting drivers into Sainsbury’s (DHL contract) Dartford. I said I was looking to work “nights and weekends” as always. “Ooh we want blokes like YOU” I was told…
Turned out the basic hourly rate was sub-£10 per hour. To get the £14-£16 touted as the weekend rates - I was expected to pull 5x8 hour shifts 6am-2pm monday-friday @ £8.00 (2011 rates)
I said “No, you misunderstand - What part of ‘Only Nights and Weekends’ didn’t you understand?” - “Want blokes like you”? - My arse! £14-£16 was the OVERTIME rate for CONTRACTORS. I was even expected to go s/e umbrella to get THAT.
They NEVER tell you the low-down BEFORE the sign-up process. So Thanks all you lying gits out there for wasting yet another day of my time - and yours - for no better reason than “deceit”.
WHY was it so hard just to turn up for “sundays only” for the touted £16ph FFS?
I wanted to be semi-retired by the end of 2011 originally… a single 12 hour shift on a sunday @ £16ph with me taking home near ALL of that - plus the tax credit top-up would have seen me with a reasonable weekly income right then and there - for one day a week’s work!
Simple answer for the OP and anyone else who might be affected by the green eyed monster about agency pay rates, in comparison to their own full-time rate.
Try it yourself, not for a couple of weeks but for a full 12 months.
Winseer:
Higher hourly rates - either as full time or agency - mean nothing if one has to jump through uncomfortable hoops to “qualify” for it.
The hourly rate at Royal Mail is supposed to be real good for example - but as a full timer, you’ll be heavily restricted upon getting any overtime, and as agency - you’ll not get the parity pay you signed up for - until after 20 weeks is it? Even if it’s 13 weeks - if you’re not put into RM by September - you’ll be expected to work flat out across Christmas for an inferior rate that bears no resemblance with the meaty rates that enticed you to sign up for Manpower, Pertemps, or whatever in the first place.
I once applied for agencies putting drivers into Sainsbury’s (DHL contract) Dartford. I said I was looking to work “nights and weekends” as always. “Ooh we want blokes like YOU” I was told…
Turned out the basic hourly rate was sub-£10 per hour. To get the £14-£16 touted as the weekend rates - I was expected to pull 5x8 hour shifts 6am-2pm monday-friday @ £8.00 (2011 rates)
I said “No, you misunderstand - What part of ‘Only Nights and Weekends’ didn’t you understand?” - “Want blokes like you”? - My arse! £14-£16 was the OVERTIME rate for CONTRACTORS. I was even expected to go s/e umbrella to get THAT.
They NEVER tell you the low-down BEFORE the sign-up process. So Thanks all you lying gits out there for wasting yet another day of my time - and yours - for no better reason than “deceit”.
WHY was it so hard just to turn up for “sundays only” for the touted £16ph FFS?
I wanted to be semi-retired by the end of 2011 originally… a single 12 hour shift on a sunday @ £16ph with me taking home near ALL of that - plus the tax credit top-up would have seen me with a reasonable weekly income right then and there - for one day a week’s work!
So much for the plans of mice and men…
I love it when drivers spout total drivel/rumour winseer mate. royal mail pay parity from November whether you have been there a week or 10.
Winseer:
Higher hourly rates - either as full time or agency - mean nothing if one has to jump through uncomfortable hoops to “qualify” for it.
The hourly rate at Royal Mail is supposed to be real good for example - but as a full timer, you’ll be heavily restricted upon getting any overtime, and as agency - you’ll not get the parity pay you signed up for - until after 20 weeks is it? Even if it’s 13 weeks - if you’re not put into RM by September - you’ll be expected to work flat out across Christmas for an inferior rate that bears no resemblance with the meaty rates that enticed you to sign up for Manpower, Pertemps, or whatever in the first place.
I once applied for agencies putting drivers into Sainsbury’s (DHL contract) Dartford. I said I was looking to work “nights and weekends” as always. “Ooh we want blokes like YOU” I was told…
Turned out the basic hourly rate was sub-£10 per hour. To get the £14-£16 touted as the weekend rates - I was expected to pull 5x8 hour shifts 6am-2pm monday-friday @ £8.00 (2011 rates)
I said “No, you misunderstand - What part of ‘Only Nights and Weekends’ didn’t you understand?” - “Want blokes like you”? - My arse! £14-£16 was the OVERTIME rate for CONTRACTORS. I was even expected to go s/e umbrella to get THAT.
They NEVER tell you the low-down BEFORE the sign-up process. So Thanks all you lying gits out there for wasting yet another day of my time - and yours - for no better reason than “deceit”.
WHY was it so hard just to turn up for “sundays only” for the touted £16ph FFS?
I wanted to be semi-retired by the end of 2011 originally… a single 12 hour shift on a sunday @ £16ph with me taking home near ALL of that - plus the tax credit top-up would have seen me with a reasonable weekly income right then and there - for one day a week’s work!
So much for the plans of mice and men…
I love it when drivers spout total drivel/rumour winseer mate. royal mail pay parity from November whether you have been there a week or 10.
If I’m out of date with my information - then by all means correct me. Last year’s “Truth” doesn’t degenerate into “Rumour” for merely being out of date though.
Pray tell us where one can go to get parity pay at royal mail straight out of the gate… I’ve already enquired at Pertemps and Manpower - and they don’t know what I’m talking about when I ask them - implying that they are either clueless as to what you are talking about - or lying to my face as to what I’m talking about here eh?
I suppose if I were to put a conspiracy theory to it, as is my thing - Manpower and Pertempts may WELL be being paid parity pay for ALL drivers come november week one for the driver - but the DRIVER does not get it unless working directly FOR Manpower and Pertemps - who have already shut the door in my face saying they “don’t want any more RM-only drivers on their books”. Unlike other agencies I’ve previously applied to - Manpower and Pertempts are strangely absent with the round of “Are you available for work this Christmas” as all the other places I applied to have done these past 4 years.
So… Either my conspiracy theories are entirely true - or you are premature in putting me down here - there’s upside for me both ways right or wrong heh!
RM is going to become like the NHS if they are not careful - assuming I AM out of date, and everything you are saying is 100% accurate. This does come as a surprise to me, but the mentality there that would treat me like dirt after I left - means perhaps it is not such a surprise as far as my own experience and involvement goes - at least.
to be fair winseer, I am guessing it is part of the country dependant. my guess would be if you were in crick area you would be used, derby area, or some of London.
I don’t really know outside of these, as I work in the midlands.
last year was the first royal mail year I missed in about 10 so maybe your info for then was correct.
Here’s an extension to my Conspiracy theory here for ya…
(1) RM are indeed paying around £20ph for their drivers to the agency that supplies them.
(2) The agency, not wanting to pay the £16 to their drivers, sub it out instead - where the third-party agency only pays that bod their standard rate.
(3) Repeat and rinse…
Suggestion 1: - Let’s here from some drivers who’ve just been put into RM this very week - when they’ve got their first pay packet for this week’s work (which won’t have been yet - right?)
Suggestion 2: - What’s the bod’s track record with which agency before being put into RM? - I’m not expecting any “just turned up” folk being put straight into THAT plum-sounding deal!
Suggestion 3: - I’ve had two calls, the beginning of last week, and the start of half term week the week before - asking me for availability to work at RM (odd shifts) - but by subbing agencies!
For odd shifts - there is NO parity pay - absolutely certain here. They would have touted that fact IF it had been a fact that “everyone gets party pay from day one in november”. They would have jumped at the chance to send me a confirmation email to that effect. They would have bragged that there is work right across Christmas - rather than “odd shifts”. Truth is, they just want some mugs to work there for flat pay at that agency - when the demand spikes over the next few weeks…
In any case, I’m flat out somewhere else at the moment - so I’ve politely declined.
It might have indeed been a bigger temptation for me - had they sent me a letter promising me parity pay straight out of the gate though - I must admit!
All the more reason why it’s strange to have heard nothing at all from the two main agencies, that as far as I know - are still RM’s main suppliers in my area at least.
Right now, as things stand - I see it as unlikely that I’ll ever darken RM’s doors again. I have no interest in working ANYWHERE in future where I don’t earn the same rate as the other full-time drivers working next to me at least. I don’t think I’m asking for a lot here - just a square deal devoid of built-in stitch-ups, underhand robbery, and back-biting which I now consider to be behind me.
war1974:
to be fair winseer, I am guessing it is part of the country dependant. my guess would be if you were in crick area you would be used, derby area, or some of London.
I don’t really know outside of these, as I work in the midlands.
last year was the first royal mail year I missed in about 10 so maybe your info for then was correct.
I stood them up on New Year’s day this year - took ill. It was a plum shift too - £108 for 5-6 hours. I don’t give such plum shifts up lightly I can assure you.
My last enquiry to Manpower & Pertemps was in the middle of the summer, when the work at my agency went a bit quiet. Been more or less flat out since August though, so I can’t say I’m really looking for anything else from now on. I suppose they could offer me a full time job on less money than I’m getting at the agency - to get rid of me - but that’ about it.
Winseer:
My last enquiry to Manpower & Pertemps was in the middle of the summer, when the work at my agency went a bit quiet.
Your agency can’t have many clients on their books. Any decent agency is flat out from Easter through to the middle of September and usually on the phone asking if you know any drivers looking for work and thats in Hull, let alone areas with high demand like the Midlands. A decent agency with a decent amount of clients on its books should literally have the back end of September to mid October and January/February as quiet times at worst.
That is assuming you’re actually a competent driver and not a steering wheel attendant they only phone as a last resort…
war1974:
to be fair winseer, I have no issues texting my lads the rates and telling them when its peak etc.
I know a whole load of agencies who will and have to me previously text me with a ‘bonus’ of £100 etc for a shift, I never got it what a surprise.
just look at the post about smart recruitment as a fine example of this.
I have never accepted a “text” as a legal obligation. I insist upon an email confirming any rate before performing a new job at a new client for the first time.
There can be a delay in hitting “send” on a text as with email - so that it is most certainly NOT the way I’d like to be shoehorned into any job or cancelled - “at the last minute” either.
Different agencies are going to have different sets of clients on their books who have different times of the year when it goes quiet. I was flat out in January this year, and I’m flat out right now. Other agencies might have found it quiet during those times. Vice-versa applies too, at other agencies of course.
Winseer:
My last enquiry to Manpower & Pertemps was in the middle of the summer, when the work at my agency went a bit quiet.
Your agency can’t have many clients on their books. Any decent agency is flat out from Easter through to the middle of September and usually on the phone asking if you know any drivers looking for work and thats in Hull, let alone areas with high demand like the Midlands. A decent agency with a decent amount of clients on its books should literally have the back end of September to mid October and January/February as quiet times at worst.
That is assuming you’re actually a competent driver and not a steering wheel attendant they only phone as a last resort…
When I say “A bit quiet” - I mean that I find myself being offered “Days” which I normally hate doing. I’m a night trunk man, and hate getting up before breakfast in the morning. Always have.
I spent a few weeks at Downtons in the summer, some of it on earlies running into Tilbury which I don’t like. The late runs to Ipswich I got for a couple of weeks later on - was a much nicer job though - it has to be said. Rough with the smooth when my regular haunts are otherwise “quiet” all at the same agency.
jo pants:
hi all, you have might off gone over this already but what annoys me about the haulage industry is the amount of companies who employ agency drivers and pay them more than the regular drivers. I work for a company getting paid x amount but an agency driver doing the same job gets paid more than me. why is this?
I know there is a shortage of drivers, for various reasons, but why pay agency drivers more than the regular drivers? surely if a company paid the regular drivers more money then agency driver would want to work for the company direct!
If it annoys you so much that the agency drivers are getting paid more than you, why haven’t you quit your full-time job and gone in as agency driver yourself? Think of all that extra money you’re missing out on!
Think of all that extra money you’re missing out on!