Winseer:
Trouble is, if you start down that road, that’ll be ALL the work you’ll EVER get.
There’s no moral obligation for the better work to ever be offered to you, once you grab the greasy pole you see.
Getting all the crap work ,Yep …thats how I found it was done
Sidevalve:
green456:
the problem with this is that once they realise that you will accept a booking at short notice you will not get any other type of booking, the guy who refuses to accept late bookings will get the early jobs and you will be held in reserve just in case. This then results in you getting less work not more and the little work you do get is all last minutethis also applies to people with adr , hiab etc, you are held in reserve just in case a job comes in, if you don’t hold such quals you get the everyday jobs and earn more than the holders of such qualifications
I disagree. A smart consultant keeps his good guys busy on regular decent work; likewise those with extra quals. If they’re good you either use them or lose them because if you don’t keep them busy another agency will.
However; if a job comes up which does demand one of those specialists, I concede that it is likely they will be pulled on to a job which they have the skills for. The trick is to know which guys don’t mind if this happens; and also which customers.
A smart consultant ,will F### you over ,but will give you the impression he is doing you a favour
FreddieSwan:
. . . but from a business perspective I’m sure you can appreciate that’s impractical?
And that’s the problem as far as I see it. Agencies are a business whose costs have to be paid by someone, namely the agency worker. As more and more agencies appear undercutting other agencies to get the work there is only one way to make a profit - by cutting costs!
I have invoices from seven years ago stating better rates than I’m being offered by agencies now. So from a business perspective I have learned to do exactly as you do, and approach companies direct, especially the ones who despise the whole agency culture.
Stan
An agency gave me a start with a new licence,this was about 16 years ago the work was as and when but I was on £300.00 for a 40 hour week.I know that times change and not always for the better.
Firstly, thank you for your responses. I appreciate the honesty and I’m well aware that agencies generally have a terrible reputation, especially in the driving world. I’m actually surprised at the level of response as I wasn’t expecting quite so much, or rather expecting to be shown the door. There’s a hell of a lot to reply to so I’ll do my best but do bear with me (particularly Tacho, if we’re going to break down quote by quote it’ll make some interesting reading but I wouldn’t want to gloss over your posts and give a general response when there’s actually a lot of insight which I think everyone would appreciate). I’ll address some issues that seem to be common throughout:
Completely down to insurance. If insurance wasn’t an issue I’d take on new drivers regularly because often they turn out to be what companies genuinely want. Without disrespecting the drivers here that have had their licences for a long time - new drivers haven’t had time to develop bad habits, preferences, knowledge of route X over route Y and so on. I only ever take on new drivers if I genuinely think I can spec them into a temp-to-perm position because it solves my insurance issue (the client’s insurers will have different clauses and often they’re considered on an individual basis by underwriters) and also solves their “2 year requirement” which is just a barrier to entry in most cases. I have a fantastic client that offers an induction day (at a cost to us which I split equally amongst 6 drivers, paying the 7th split off of my desk) and guarantees work to new drivers to at least cover the cost of their induction. It’s an opportunity for new drivers to get their foot in the door which in turn generates revenue for me - in that circumstance, I’d like to think everyone’s a winner. Agencies aren’t trying to be a pain in the a**e with the ‘no new driver’ policy; blame the insurance companies, and the negligent new-passes!
I’ll be on tonight to address whatever else I can. If there’s something you’d like me to specifically respond to, please let me know.
Thanks again,
Freddie
Ad’s running after the jobs been filled - there’s nothing to stop them doing this!!!
For how long exactly?
Is this an actual admission of posting non-existent work?
what is the underlying purpose of this thread? asking questions to gain knowledge if you are new to the industry i can understand but since you are responding with clear experience then that is not the case. no location or sales pitch so you arent looking for drivers. asking for a drivers perception then defending the agencies just doesnt add up to anything constructive or beneficial to us. this appears to be a Q & A with no sign of any further action or offers so what is the point of it?
Socket - most ad sites run a 6-week (there or thereabouts) period. You also pay for a certain number of ads, so arguably taking an ad down once a vacancy has been filled costs you a premium for very little return, yet finding candidates in the specified area whilst the ad continues to run is a worthy investment. In answer to your question, no, it’s not an admission of posting non-jobs. I advertise current roles (full time or temp-to-perm), or ad-hoc positions. My ads will always state that work (in most cases) is on-going but temporary. In most cases (and I have two in place at present) this is a long term placement in which they are always on the agencies payroll but working in the same client 5 days a week.
Scanny - If you consider my responses to demonstrate ‘clear experience’ with only 8 months behind me then I’ll happily take it as a compliment. I still consider myself new to the industry. In terms of location, I’ve recently started a new cold desk in Essex - if there are drivers looking for work then they’re welcome to contact me privately but that certainly isn’t what I came to the forum for. I’m only defending what I consider defendable - I don’t tar drivers with the same brush (other than the title of ‘candidate’, to which I’m referred to in a general sense as ‘consultant’) and so don’t believe it should be the same for agencies / consultants. I might defend my integrity on a personal level given that “most” or “all” agencies are dishonest, lying scum and I would prefer to buck that trend (perhaps by registering in the first place).
As for the purpose of the thread, I don’t think consultants really do know enough about what is thought of them from the driver’s side. I doubt many drivers are going to walk through my door and tell me that I’m not doing my job correctly when I’m responsible for finding them work - on a relatively anonymous forum however, people are welcome to be as open as they like. If you want a genuine purpose to this thread, then consider it a fact-finder for me to present some advice later on how best to work with your consultant or find work off your own back if you think that would benefit the forum.
I know it’s nothing to do with driving, but as your an agency bod would you care to explain why it is when you get put onto placement with an agency that’s supposedly long term…and then they ring you offering you placements elsewhere. Now I can only assume it’s either because they want to fill your job with someone else, you’re doing crap at said job (Even though they’ve said previously the company hasn’t had a bad word to say about you…) or the work that was supposedly long term is actually on going work thats just drying up as you go along…Also to add the company that I work for, my manager’s Mrs owns the agency what I assume makes more of a difference.
Care to explain how I go about asking what the problem is without being met with my P45 sent through my letter box as it so happens I quite like where I work which makes a change…
Cheers
Jonny 
So Freddie
You seem to be coming under some fire.
My own experiences with agencies are woeful. Last weeks payslip has arrived for the shift I described in an earlier response to you. I arrived at 20:00 hrs and clocked off at 06:45 hrs (I did have a 45 min break) they have paid me 9 hours for this.
Do I kick up and risk alienating them or swallow it?
I have alienated quite a few agencies. I got the regulator involved in one instance. (It is here on this forum for all to read)
You are saying agencies do not know things from drivers perspectives and you want to set yourself aside from them.
You seem to me to be offering answers the same as all the agencies I have worked for have. With bullshine. If it quacks and waddles - it’s a duck!
Freddie, I commend you for coming on here and taking the flack you have. I see what you are trying to do - create an agency that puts right everything that is wrong with agencies, however, I feel you are ■■■■■■■ in the wind.
Due to my circumstances I haven’t driven in over 6 years. One of my plans was to start an agency for much the same reasons as you seem to be on here. I was fed up of being taken for an idiot and given false promises. That said after lengthy feasibility studies into the project, ultimately I shelved it as experience had taught me that trying to put things right from the inside will only ever lead to you becoming that which you despised in the first place.
You are also at the added disadvantage of not being able to apply one of the 2 firm rules of being a transport boss;
1) Don’t ask someone to do something you haven’t done, or are not prepared to do yourself
2) Treat others as you would expect to be treated yourself
While I wish you well with your venture and genuinely hope you change the current practices of agencies, I feel the weight of opposition (other agencies) will force you to follow the agency status quo and as such, not much will change.
Please, please prove me wrong.
Why don’t we all list specific sins of specific agencies. WHO the bad payers are NAMES of “consultants” at WHICH agency who consistently lie to you to get shifts filled. DEFAULTING agencies who’ll send you on a job with a promise of pay, but it turns out to be an “unpaid assessment” that one neither passes or fails, and strangely only lasts a day. The client either wanted someone for free, and the agency lied to the driver to oblige, or the client paid, but the agency fancied palming away the wages paid to help themselves, because the company cashflow is a “bit poorly of late”.
It will be next week, and the month after that no doubt. As soon as someone takes court action for stolen or missing wages etc, the company folds, and Mr FIddler gets a job as consultant at his mate’s agency in the next town… 
Then there’s the good agencies that people like me wonder if it’s best to keep stumn about, lest it be flooded out with “desperate for work” types who’ll bundle in and offer to do Winseer’s job for £1 an hour less… 
I’ve been asked this week for example “If you can get anyone to take up a FULL TIME job at P&H Snodland, you’ll get £50”.
Clearly there are a shortage of P&H drivers. I can’t advertise it in the jobs section, cos I’m not the one offering the jobs, of which there are multiple numbers of, and they are full time with the agency presumably getting a one-off finders fee.
Honesty:
When a driver makes an enquiry of an agency, the big questions need to be answered, rather than side-sidestepped.
(1) WHY should I sign up with your agency over Blogg’s agency across the street from you?
Answer being Sought here: “We have work at clients ■■■,yyy and zzz depots which are not available elsewhere, or we are paying more money than bloggs for shifts there”
(2) WHAT are the hourly rates before I take on an assignment
Answer being Sought here: “Fancy a shift @ Haulass & Co, £10ph night rate, 7pm tonight” rather than “Hmm I’ve got this client that sort of moves machine tools around the country, and they’ve got an opening this evening” which turns out to be some pi key outfit starting at 11pm tonight, you’ll be expected to split the shift unpaid, and all for £7ph and the first shift unpaid because it’s on approval of the client. 
(3) How long is the shift expected to last, and where is it exactly, before I say Yes, and it turns out to be 50 miles away.
it still seems a little odd to have x amount of consultants and only 1 on here trying to improve their understanding of the drivers perspective but it wont affect me anyway. if you are genuinely trying to improve your service to your sub-contractors and staff then good luck to you but you are a little further than i am willing to travel for a shift 
my previous points are based on a lot of years working for a lot of agencies in different parts of the uk. some are actually ok but others are far less professional and they are the majority which is quite clear from the responses to your thread. it isnt all one sided though and some drivers are their own worst enemy. turning up in filthy blue ‘work jeans’ to a big name client is not going to get you regular work there if they are image conscious. neither is demanding a fixed start time and route! its the client you need to impress as a driver if you want a decent working week, not the agency although that only works if the agency recognise that relationship and provide the drivers that the clients trust
this is all you really need to get your head around:
happy driver = happy client = happy agency = happy driver
the bums on seats strategy is not a long term business plan 
agencies are why we have all of europes finest in our factories and fields ,unfortunately this is leading to the rise of ukip and other such unsavoury parties .If we took away all of these mercenaries then maybe the uk workforce would have some sort of chance of earning a decent living,I go to factories where one agency is responsible for bringing in almost 100 per cent of the workforce who are all Polish .This is driving wages and standards down for the brits
Should’ve titled this “Flame Freddie for Fun” - think I would’ve got the same response.
Again, I’ll try and touch subjects mentioned that I’ve missed previously, and for those that have asked questions direct I’ll address them. 
Jonny - I’m confused by your two posts. Given you signature, I assume you’re a car driver waiting to pass your C / C+E? In which case I would also assume (correct me if I’m wrong) that you’re doing Industrial work through agency - general labour / warehousing etc? If that’s the case, when you pass your C / C+E, your agency could potentially be your best source of work. I’ll get to your second post later / tomorrow - if you want any genuine advice as a new driver then I’m happy to provide what I can in terms of perspective from an agency desk.
Tacho - excuse my age, but if it was a case of holiday cover / sickness, was this still run by the ‘agency giants’? The likes of Manpower, Blue Arrow etc. I can only imagine the economic climate has made it easier for recruitment start-ups and it’s incredibly common practice for director level employees to begin their own start-up.
With regards to the job situation - I still stand by my initial response. Perhaps you’re correct in the regard that jobs would still exist, but the fact is that unless the government step in, I can’t really change how businesses choose to operate. The difference is, those businesses that do utilise agency drivers ultimately create what we could class as ‘agency jobs’. Is it the fault of the pioneer of recruitment agencies that discovered the opportunity in the market? Probably. Is it the fault of agencies that businesses continue to rely on a flexible staffing option (i.e. agencies)? Not at all. If they wanted to commit to full time employees, they would. They’ve been offered an ‘out’ of sorts and snapped at it with both hands - my personal commitment is to do my best within that role.
In terms of regulating agencies to create more permanent jobs - I’m not sure I follow? What precisely do you mean by ‘responsible and socially acceptable’? I’m almost certain I don’t cross either of these lines in my day to day job but it would be nice to clarify.
Bungle666 - If I was targeted by my boss at say, 28%, paying you £7 would mean I’d have to charge a minimum of £11.47 just to meet my target. Like the large majority of professions, I have targets. If I don’t hit said targets, I’d be sacked - obviously not a desirable outcome. If I was then paying you £7 and happened to mention I was charging £11.47 - I don’t think you’d be either a) happy working for me or b) not kicking up a fuss about pay/charge rates. Of course you’d expect more. Realistically, the way to do that is by using Umbrella services (or you set up LTD), in which case it moves. Same charge at £11.47 means the rate is now able to be upped to £8.26.
It seems by nature of the driving business as a whole, drivers quite openly discuss rates etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but certainly not the practice in many other industries. I couldn’t tell you what the other consultants in my office earn - I have an idea, granted, but couldn’t tell you accurately. Nor that of my boss, nor my directors.
kjw21 - I think my response to Tacho relates here. The industry is as it is, businesses will carry on using what they perceive as adding value to their business - that won’t change. The way in which people are treated on both sides of the fence however, can. Again with respect to the non-jobs, I answered that earlier. If you were to pick up the phone and ask me about one of my ads, I could give you limited info because it is such a competitive market. If however you took the time to walk into my office, register and establish a level of rapport - I’d have no problem “exposing” who my clients are and particularly the ones you’ve expressed an interest in working with.
Sidevalve - Invaluable, much appreciated. I’m actually interested in your transition across the three roles but I’ll save it for a private message if you wouldn’t mind.
Pimpdaddy - I don’t disagree, but in my current employment status, I don’t think my best position is to advise TM’s how to run their fleet. If they see a requirement for agency, I’m perfectly happy to provide a service as required.
Winseer - I will definitely get back to your post, I’ve seen a few of your posts previously dotted across the forum regarding agency etc. actually - look forward to a response in my next post! Sorry to skip you - the missus can be incredibly demanding at times!
Thanks again for any / all responses. Hope I’m providing some insight in the same respect as you are to me.
I do work as an ‘industrial worker’ for this current agency but they told me they’re not a ‘driving agency’ so the place I work for now when the main man told me as soon as I pass my test to tell him then we’ll go from there…i’ll be working directly through the company not the agency…unless the agency suddenly wants to start hiring drivers 
Just getting annoyed at the offers of other jobs, when I’m perfectly happy where I am. After all if I wanted another job, i’d of applied for them by now!
Cheers
Jonny
bnira:
agencies are why we have all of europes finest in our factories and fields ,unfortunately this is leading to the rise of ukip and other such unsavoury parties .If we took away all of these mercenaries then maybe the uk workforce would have some sort of chance of earning a decent living,I go to factories where one agency is responsible for bringing in almost 100 per cent of the workforce who are all Polish .This is driving wages and standards down for the brits
FYI, agencies thrived long before the EU was even thought of; they actually pre-date the USA!
The same is true of “Europe’s finest” doing seasonal work in the agricultural sector; in my father’s day such work was done by the women and children of the village but employment legislation now forbids this, and the other regulars who used to do that sort of work now find better employment dealing in scrap metal. 
I’m less than overjoyed about the influx of migrant workers too, but the bottom line is they will work, not sit on their butts watching Jeremy Kyle and smoking dope like British-born sink-estate dossers. By and large they don’t walk off the job after half an hour either, or fail to turn up after the first day, or throw sickies. They just get on with the job. And that is why employers use them, not just because they’re affordable, but because they’re willing and reliable.
Whilst it remains more profitable for a British person to sit at home and do nothing rather than go to work full time, this situation will continue; and for all the present government’s rhetoric it will take more than good intentions to sort this out.
Your use of the word “mercenary” isn’t strictly correct as a noun BTW, but when used as an adjective it does describe those employers who bend the rules. Look it up.
Double post, mods pls remove, my bad.
I left the Army with fresh class 1 licence but could not get a job because of the catch 22 2years experience requirement for most jobs. So in my case without the agencies (who had customers willing to take inexperienced drivers) I would have struggled. Also ran an agency for about a year, so seen both sides. There are good and bad ones and likewise with drivers, but basically the agencies exist because there is a need for them, and most drivers work for them because it suits them.
098Joe:
So in my case without the agencies (who had customers willing to take inexperienced drivers) I would have struggled.
Did you approach any operators in person & sell yourself? I have far more respect for someone that’d do that rather than run to an Agy…
