Agencies - A Driver's Perspective?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Good afternoon,

Having been in the recruitment game just shy of a year, one thing I’ve certainly learnt to appreciate is that there’s varying opinions on agencies from both a client and candidate (driver) perspective. I’ve been browsing these forums for a little while and figured its about time to poke the fire and see what kind of response I get… well aware I’m opening myself up for crucifixion but there’s no better learning practice. :grimacing:

What I’d really like to know is; what is your opinion on driving / recruitment agencies? What do they do well, what could they do better, and what do they quite simply fail to do at all?

Appreciate your opinions,

Freddie

2

Don’t offer what you don’t have nothing worse than going threw paper work and interview to get no work or just to be offered what you said at the start you didn’t want.

3

Don’t mess people around cancelling at last minute when people already on way to work or even worse let them go knowing they are not even booked for a shift in the hope they get one

4

False promises is the biggest bugbear for a lot of drivers. Especially the new ones that think they are in with a chance.

Just be honest with your candidates, to quote you, - (though I think you are on a wrong foot by classifying drivers as candidates). Without them you’d have no commission. Treat them like a human being.

5

Don’t advertise false rates. And jobs that’s not there.

6

dar1976:
(though I think you are on a wrong foot by classifying drivers as candidates).

I was waiting to get picked up on that; can be difficult to break the habit of recruitment jargon although it certainly wasn’t meant disrespectfully.

Mala - noted. I keep ‘short forms’ for this very reason. Taking an hour per person for each registration isn’t the best use of my time, nor theirs, if I can’t put them into work within a reasonable timescale.

Ianb - Disappointed if this has happened to you. I generally have an agreement in place with clients that any shifts cancelled on less than 12 hours notice, they’ll be paying a couple of hours compensation. Not the best resolution perhaps but certainly better than nothing at all.

Thanks for the responses so far.

7

FreddieSwan:
Good afternoon,

Having been in the recruitment game just shy of a year, one thing I’ve certainly learnt to appreciate is that there’s varying opinions on agencies from both a client and candidate (driver) perspective. I’ve been browsing these forums for a little while and figured its about time to poke the fire and see what kind of response I get… well aware I’m opening myself up for crucifixion but there’s no better learning practice. :grimacing:

What I’d really like to know is; what is your opinion on driving / recruitment agencies? What do they do well, what could they do better, and what do they quite simply fail to do at all?

Appreciate your opinions,

Freddie

Q, What do they do well. A, Nothing

Q, What could they do better. A, Everything

Q, What do they quite simply fail to do at all. A, Tell the truth.

I trust this answers your questions.

8

I can’t believe some of the replies in this thread suggesting how agencies could be better :frowning:

The vast majority of agencies should be closed down not made better :unamused:

Most agency consultants are nothing but parasites living off the backs of working people and the sooner you’re put out of work the better :imp:

Agencies should be used for holiday/sick cover and seasonal work only, but now that companies have realised that because of the shortage of work, agencies can force down workers rates many companies are only to happy to take advantage and get into bed with unscrupulous agencies.

I’ve had some decent work off agencies, but have also seen the other side where agencies force people to go on umbrella companies or go limited company or simply get no decent work, and in-spite of the drivel agency people will tell you the real reason is so that the agency people can make more money out of the workers.

I personally believe that the government should be doing everything possible to put people like you out of work and force agencies to do what they should be doing, which as I’ve said is providing holiday/sick cover and cover for seasonal work.

While I personally am happy not to have regular full time work the fact remains that most people do want regular jobs with a regular income and that’s not not going to happen as long as agencies are filling the role that they currently occupy.

You may be interested in this thread.

9

Agencies are only good as a stop gap at most.

If a company doesn’t like you, they won’t think twice of getting rid of you because there’ll always be some muppet on the other end at the agency jumping at the chance to get your job. I lost my last job 2 weeks ago because of said loop holes that companies can use to get rid of people :imp:

My current job, I was offered the job the same day I applied and all paper work was signed. But because I had my HGV medical booked for the friday (And I told them this in the interview :angry: :imp: !!) They rang me as soon as I got home to tell me that they wanted to someone to start on thursday and work friday it was a choice. Go to the medical and lose out on a job I was already offered or miss my medical and start the job on Thursday :imp:

Needless to say I missed the medical and am currently working because I need the money/job more than I did the medical. But as soon as I’ve done my Cat C/C&E training I shall be away from agency work ASAP :imp: No good will ever come from agencies. And as a workers perspective. Agencies are nothing but trouble and full of ■■■■.

HTH.

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses:

10

First of all, we locked the food up…Thus making it imperative to work :imp:
Now we lock the jobs up :frowning:
The world is a weird place, humans have only made it worse…And those who work in recruitment are evil.

11

mfm, although in essence I appreciate what you’re getting at, if you could elaborate it would be appreciated. Also, how many agencies have you worked with / for?

tachograph - definitely the sort of response I was looking for, thanks. I understand your concerns with regards to agencies primarily operating to cover holiday / sickness, but from a business perspective I’m sure you can appreciate that’s impractical?

Most firms will see their holiday season spike in summer, therefore rendering agencies practically useless throughout the earliest and latter parts of the year, given holidays during Christmas are generally company-wide. In terms of a business model, it wouldn’t sustainable, nor profitable.

With regards to agency consultants being parasites? I think that’s up for debate… Ultimately, my job splits into two parts. One is ‘client’ based, very sales focussed and competitive. The other being ‘candidate’ based is more with a view to getting people back into work when the other avenues aren’t open. It’s interesting to consider your opinion of consultants ‘living off the back of working people’ when in reality, I’m responsible for putting ~40-60 of those ‘working people’ into work in the first place. Daily.

Failing that, I could always sit on benefits and become incredibly parasitical; I’m sure the working people would appreciate that. :unamused:

The government can’t literally enforce that businesses must take on permanent staff with a view to using agency only in exceptional circumstances. I worked closely with a couple of 24/7 operations whilst in Kent and the flexibility of agency staff to handle the variance in their workload was essential. At the same time, 100% of their permanent recruitment came via my agency once they had completed 13 weeks (or in one particular case, 6 years!). Drivers aren’t known for writing exceptional CVs and in many cases, agencies create an opportunity that wouldn’t have been there previously.

With regards to umbrella, I won’t disagree that there are some ill-practices within the industry and they are more profitable for agencies. I don’t know enough about said ill-practices to elaborate however. If they are used properly in terms of claiming expenses and a better rate as opposed to PAYE, then they do offer a genuinely beneficial service. If not? Then that’s specific to the agency / consultant skimming the rate which is and obviously disgraceful. If you don’t follow the expense procedure then that’s your own downfall.

Thank you though, despite the negativity it’s precisely the sort of response I’d want to get an insight of.

12

…nice to have an agency worker soliciting driver’s opinions. Are you a professional driver? If so, what licence do you hold and have you worked for hauliers and agencies?

13

Euro:
…nice to have an agency worker soliciting driver’s opinions. Are you a professional driver? If so, what licence do you hold and have you worked for hauliers and agencies?

Unfortunately not, precisely my reasoning for asking the question(s).

I have spent a couple of days as a drivers mate in various clients to get a better concept of what the work entails. My former boss held a Class 2 and often worked weekends having driven as an agency driver previously.

14

The cut-throat competition is between what the agency charges the client.

The actual agency driver hourly rate though has been stagnant for well over a deacade now, despite agencies continuing to under-bid each other to poach each other’s clients.
When margins are squeezed too much, that particular agency goes out of business.

However from the “walkpast” viewpoint, I notice that some of the larger agencies have “handlers” who drive flash cars and then say “Sorry bud, it’s £8.50ph with HIAB and MOFFET because that’s the going rate now - lower than 1993 I know”.

Well, I’m thinking “HIS margins ain’t being squuezed looking at that Porsche he’s just breezed into the office in!” :imp:

I suggest one of the main “Agencies always lie” actual lies being told is “Oooh we’re not making much money out of you - honest!” :stuck_out_tongue:

On the other hand, If your agency guvnor drives a car not much better than yours, then you’ve got a decent guy to work for by that same little “instant assessment” of integrity if you like… :sunglasses:

The question I still have is that "Is there REALLY no room for a progressive agency to come in and pay OVER the going rate to drivers whilst undercutting what the client pays?

Eg. Client pays £15.50ph, driver gets £12.50ph kinda stuff rather than the more common client pays £18ph, driver gets £9ph which I’m guessing is far more common.? :question: :confused:

15

How about not posting non-jobs.

It’s funny that the “job” advertised always requires a Hiab ticket and ADR and it’s always a C+E as well.

In my area, I know very few hauliers that run artics with Hiab and have dangerous loads!!!

Just a catch all ploy to get drivers swept up in the net.

If you run a used car dealership and you advertise a special deal on a car that doesn’t exist, trading standards will have you before the beak pronto.

Yes, folks, the non-job con - gets the drivers on the books and then the lies start. :unamused:

Don’t do it. :imp:

16

Oh, and Freddie, you won’t get out of here alive :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Unless less you’re tooled up like Swharzenegger in the Terminator franchise.

17

FreddieSwan:
mfm, although in essence I appreciate what you’re getting at, if you could elaborate it would be appreciated. Also, how many agencies have you worked with / for?

I’m not sure who you was asking but I’ve worked for 5 different agencies over about 8 years, these agencies ranged from OK to downright appalling.

I’m fortunate in that I don’t need continuous full time work and so can afford to be a little picky who I work for, most people are not in that position.

FreddieSwan:
tachograph - definitely the sort of response I was looking for, thanks. I understand your concerns with regards to agencies primarily operating to cover holiday / sickness, but from a business perspective I’m sure you can appreciate that’s impractical?

Most firms will see their holiday season spike in summer, therefore rendering agencies practically useless throughout the earliest and latter parts of the year, given holidays during Christmas are generally company-wide. In terms of a business model, it wouldn’t sustainable, nor profitable.

I think you’ll find that agencies existed for some years doing just that, it’s only competitively recently that they’ve taken on the role of supplying all workers throughout the year for so many comapnies.

FreddieSwan:
With regards to agency consultants being parasites? I think that’s up for debate… Ultimately, my job splits into two parts. One is ‘client’ based, very sales focussed and competitive. The other being ‘candidate’ based is more with a view to getting people back into work when the other avenues aren’t open. It’s interesting to consider your opinion of consultants ‘living off the back of working people’ when in reality, I’m responsible for putting ~40-60 of those ‘working people’ into work in the first place. Daily.

I’m sorry but that’s just typical agency nonsense to justify what you do.

Are you seriously going to suggest that those 40-60 jobs would not exist if it wasn’t for you, of course they would and depending on the type of company you supply drivers to it’s likely that a large proportion of those jobs would be permanent jobs if it wasn’t for agencies exploiting the current situation of workers.

The only jobs agencies create are for agency staff.

Agencies now compete with each other for the work, and they do so by lowering workers rates of pay and utilising such things as umbrella companies.

I can’t tell you how many times over the years I’ve been called and asked to do a job at short notice because the agency bod had given the job to someone who couldn’t do the job, or never turned up, but was cheap and willing to jump when the agency bod told him to.

FreddieSwan:
Failing that, I could always sit on benefits and become incredibly parasitical; I’m sure the working people would appreciate that. :unamused:

Well it could be argued that on benefits your cost would be spread amongst all taxpayers rather than the comparatively small number of people who currently pay your wages.

Using your argument I could almost justify mugging people for a living.

FreddieSwan:
The government can’t literally enforce that businesses must take on permanent staff with a view to using agency only in exceptional circumstances.

I agree, but with proper regulation agencies could at-least be made to behave in a responsible and socially acceptable manner, and I suspect that would make more permanent jobs leaving agency work to those of us who actually want it.

FreddieSwan:
With regards to umbrella, I won’t disagree that there are some ill-practices within the industry and they are more profitable for agencies. I don’t know enough about said ill-practices to elaborate however. If they are used properly in terms of claiming expenses and a better rate as opposed to PAYE, then they do offer a genuinely beneficial service. If not? Then that’s specific to the agency / consultant skimming the rate which is and obviously disgraceful. If you don’t follow the expense procedure then that’s your own downfall.

Well if I’m honest I have mixed views on this, on the one hand umbrella companies offer a way for workers to indulge in tax avoidance which in turn leads to us all paying more tax, on the other hand, I personally cannot criticise working people for doing what businesses and business people have been doing for years.

FreddieSwan:
Thank you though, despite the negativity it’s precisely the sort of response I’d want to get an insight of.

You’re welcome, but I wasn’t trying to be negative just expressing my honest views of agencies and umbrella companies.

Socketset:
How about not posting non-jobs.

This is a very good point, lets see an agency consultant justify the way agencies advertise jobs that clearly do not exist just to get names on their books in the hope that work will come in and they’ll be able to fill the vacancies when and if they come in.

18

For me, more honesty regarding the rates and charges! fine the agency is paying me £7/h BUT WHAT are they charging the clients??

also as s new driver my agency keeps wheeling out the old “theres not alot of companies around willing to accept you as your new but we ARE trying!” chestnut… it boring TBH… and wastes my time! dont string people along, if you cant find them work then TELL US, so we can move on!

B…

19

The main thing I would expect from an agency, but it is something that every agency I’ve worked with over the past 20 years is guilty of and is what has led me to leave agency driving is ‘DO NOT LIE’, either to your drivers or to the company’s your working on behalf of. Unfortunately, this is just a pipe dream because, along with estate agents, solicitors and MPs it is part of the make-up of an agency employee. Even those that have started out with good intentions will eventually go down the slippery slope. I’ve been in at the start of a couple of local agencies that set up as independents when they saw the profits that could be made and, for a couple of years they do their best but after that the lies start appearing and any agency driver will know exactly what I mean.

20

I was going to reply but having read tachograph’s posts he has said basically word for word what I and I believe many others think.

Agencies have done more damage to this industry from a drivers point of view than anything else I can think of be it open door immigration, rising costs, longer hours.

None of them have decimated the job to the extent that “your industry” has. If anything the rise of yours had enabled many of the detrimental issues to occur to a greater extent.

Btw don’t for one minute think you help the job statistics I.e finding employment - agencies advertise so many non jobs I actually laugh when I hear about the amount of full time jobs the government say are available.

Agencies are parasitic in their business practices having invented a “non job” for themselves that unfortunately employers bought into.

So after saying I had no need to reply I actually have,I feel that strongly.

PS never worked for an agency/never will, but have at firms that use them.