Don’t worry it’s not about me driving one is too do with a accident .
One of our agency drivers has pulled out of a parking bay and the back end of his tri ( o/s ) has hit the truck parked next too it causing damage too n/ s front corner ( there scrapping truck .
Now there telling me he said it’s because he’s used too a left ■■■■■■ , I’m struggling too see it ,too me he’s just not gone far enough forward before he’s turned ,but I’ve never drove a left ■■■■■■ so is there something I’m missing 
.
N.b I’m not having a go at him ,accidents happen , but can’t see what difference it would make if it was a left ■■■■■■ or right ,surely you still have too go the same amount forward before you start turning or you do what’s happened here ,hit the truck next to you .ta
Are you by any chance a Truckdriver
dozy:
Don’t worry it’s not about me driving one
Phew 
dozy:
Don’t worry it’s not about me driving one is too do with a accident .
One of our agency drivers has pulled out of a parking bay and the back end of his tri ( o/s ) has hit the truck parked next too it causing damage too n/ s front corner ( there scrapping truck .
Now there telling me he said it’s because he’s used too a left ■■■■■■ , I’m struggling too see it ,too me he’s just not gone far enough forward before he’s turned ,but I’ve never drove a left ■■■■■■ so is there something I’m missing
N.b I’m not having a go at him ,accidents happen , but can’t see what difference it would make if it was a left ■■■■■■ or right ,surely you still have too go the same amount forward before you start turning or you do what’s happened here ,hit the truck next to you .ta
Assuming it is a tail sweep type collision then it makes no difference.Tail sweep is always blind and affects the same corner opposite to the direction of turn on either side/s in the case of an artic regardless of driving position.
Cut in is also blind beyond any significant turn angle in the case of an artic in the case of a turn to either respective side IE left in the case of RHD or right in the case of LHD.While in the case of a rigid it makes no difference wether it’s left right or centre drive in that cut in and tail sweep are always in view in the mirrors on either side regardless of turn direction.However if it was a cut in type collision it wouldn’t have been the rear end of the vehicle it would only have caught up forward of the centre line of the rear/trailer axles.
If it is the tail sweep type then going forward before turning will only work if the rear end can be totally cleared before turning.If not it’s the opposite that is needed in starting some of the turn early while a long way back thereby balancing cut in with tail sweep.
The common mistake is for drivers to think that it is all about minimising cut in which would ( should ) be the case ‘if’ they’d put axles as close as possible to the rear of the vehicle/trailer.Which they’ve decided not to in order to minimise cut in at the expense of tail sweep.With inevitable results in many cases. 
Same width and length makes no odds which side the driver sits
I drive a left ■■■■■■ car and the only difference I’m aware of is when overtaking, your vision is reduced. Especially when there’s a big carb scoop stuck in the middle of the hood. 
Yes it makes a difference which side of the cab you’re used to sitting in.
Your brain becomes accustomed to the space needed to complete any manoeuvre from the perspective of the side of the cab you normally sit in, and where you should be on the road in relation to what manouvre you’re attempting at any given moment.
Most drivers will complete manoeuvres without giving much conscious thought to what they’re doing, it’s a learned memory thing, but try the same manoeuvre sat on the opposite of the cab and the tendency is to still act as if you were sat in your normal seat and your spacial awareness can get a bit confused.
Whilst it doesn’t take long to become proficient when swapping from RHD to LHD, or vica versa, it still takes a bit of time to become accustomed to it each time you do it.
The best way to demonstrate it is to try and grab a drive in a LHD drive truck, you’ll find it a bit different and you’ll have to think a lot more about what you’re doing rather than just driving naturally as you would normally do.
The first time I drove a left ■■■■■■ in the UK I spent most of the time on the wrong side of the road, and even after getting used to it, I still found I occasionally started doing a manoeuvre as if I was sat on the other side of the cab, and had to stop and have a word with myself…
Pendragon:
Yes it makes a difference which side of the cab you’re used to sitting in.Your brain becomes accustomed to the space needed to complete any manoeuvre from the perspective of the side of the cab you normally sit in, and where you should be on the road in relation to what manouvre you’re attempting at any given moment.
Most drivers will complete manoeuvres without giving much conscious thought to what they’re doing, it’s a learned memory thing, but try the same manoeuvre sat on the opposite of the cab and the tendency is to still act as if you were sat in your normal seat and your spacial awareness can get a bit confused.Whilst it doesn’t take long to become proficient when swapping from RHD to LHD, or vica versa, it still takes a bit of time to become accustomed to it each time you do it.
The best way to demonstrate it is to try and grab a drive in a LHD drive truck, you’ll find it a bit different and you’ll have to think a lot more about what you’re doing rather than just driving naturally as you would normally do.
The first time I drove a left ■■■■■■ in the UK I spent most of the time on the wrong side of the road, and even after getting used to it, I still found I occasionally started doing a manoeuvre as if I was sat on the other side of the cab, and had to stop and have a word with myself…
Firstly you don’t position a truck on the right/wrong side of the road according to where you’re sitting driving it.You position it using the mirrors to confirm your original width judgement which itself isn’t based as to where you’re sitting but from one side to the other overall.Which is why I never had any problem with centre drive and its also why plenty of drivers have/had no problem with the narrow cab therefore inset driving position of the average classic American conventional which is almost centre drive to the point where it makes no difference.
The same applies in the case of turns.IE no one wipes out the front or rear corners just because they happen to be sitting in a different place to drive one vehicle v another.IE the overall shape and dimensions,regarding the sweep of the front and rear end corners remain exactly the same and in the same place and it’s those corners which you’re driving to not where you happen to be sitting driving it.
In which case assuming that the OP is describing a typical tail sweep catch up situation what difference would being left,right or centre drive have made.In that the overall dimensions and corners remain in the same place in all cases and have to be dealt with using the same steering inputs regardless to clear them. 
Carryfast:
Pendragon:
Yes it makes a difference which side of the cab you’re used to sitting in.Your brain becomes accustomed to the space needed to complete any manoeuvre from the perspective of the side of the cab you normally sit in, and where you should be on the road in relation to what manouvre you’re attempting at any given moment.
Most drivers will complete manoeuvres without giving much conscious thought to what they’re doing, it’s a learned memory thing, but try the same manoeuvre sat on the opposite of the cab and the tendency is to still act as if you were sat in your normal seat and your spacial awareness can get a bit confused.Whilst it doesn’t take long to become proficient when swapping from RHD to LHD, or vica versa, it still takes a bit of time to become accustomed to it each time you do it.
The best way to demonstrate it is to try and grab a drive in a LHD drive truck, you’ll find it a bit different and you’ll have to think a lot more about what you’re doing rather than just driving naturally as you would normally do.
The first time I drove a left ■■■■■■ in the UK I spent most of the time on the wrong side of the road, and even after getting used to it, I still found I occasionally started doing a manoeuvre as if I was sat on the other side of the cab, and had to stop and have a word with myself…
Firstly you don’t position a truck on the right/wrong side of the road according to where you’re sitting driving it.
yeah you do, the vast majority of drivers position themselves naturally because their brain is used to being in a certain position on the road, next time you’re a passenger in a truck on a smaller road, see how often you flinch at the hedges. You’re used to seeing them a lot further away than when you’re sat in the left seat. Most drivers use the mirrors to confirm they’re in the right position, not to get there.
You position it using the mirrors to confirm your original width judgement which itself isn’t based as to where you’re sitting but from one side to the other overall.Which is why I never had any problem with centre drive and its also why plenty of drivers have/had no problem with the narrow cab therefore inset driving position of the average classic American conventional which is almost centre drive to the point where it makes no difference.
a narrow cab is completely different to being sat on the other side of the cabThe same applies in the case of turns.IE no one wipes out the front or rear corners just because they happen to be sitting in a different place to drive one vehicle v another.
yes they do, I’ve seen some horrendous situations arising from somebody being sat on the different side of the truck to what they’re used to, it’s one of the reasons most UK companies running LHD trucks ask for experience of driving LHD trucks before employing a driver
IE the overall shape and dimensions,regarding the sweep of the front and rear end corners remain exactly the same and in the same place and it’s those corners which you’re driving to not where you happen to be sitting driving it.
obviously the vehicle will need to take the same ground track for a certain manoeuvre regardless of where the driver is sat, but since so much of what we do when evaluating a manoeuvre comes from learned memory the natural instinct is to drive as if we were in the seat we’re most used to, what we’re not necessarily used to is the different perspective being in the other side of the truck gives usIn which case assuming that the OP is describing a typical tail sweep catch up situation what difference would being left,right or centre drive have made.In that the overall dimensions and corners remain in the same place in all cases and have to be dealt with using the same steering inputs regardless to clear them.
yes they are and yes they do, but the fact remains, if the guy the OP is referring to had been driving left hookers for a while and had just jumped into a RHD, then I can totally understand how this could happen. I’m not saying it’s not a dumb mistake, it is, he clearly should have taken a bit more time to think through what he was doing, but it’s an easy mistake to make in the circumstances. But then I’ve always been of the opinion that not only am I NOT a driving God, other people are human too and may also be susceptible to the odd mistake.
Pendragon:
the vast majority of drivers position themselves naturally because their brain is used to being in a certain position on the road, next time you’re a passenger in a truck on a smaller road, see how often you flinch at the hedges. You’re used to seeing them a lot further away than when you’re sat in the left seat. Most drivers use the mirrors to confirm they’re in the right position, not to get there.a narrow cab is completely different to being sat on the other side of the cab
yes they do, I’ve seen some horrendous situations arising from somebody being sat on the different side of the truck to what they’re used to, it’s one of the reasons most UK companies running LHD trucks ask for experience of driving LHD trucks before employing a driver
obviously the vehicle will need to take the same ground track for a certain manoeuvre regardless of where the driver is sat, but since so much of what we do when evaluating a manoeuvre comes from learned memory the natural instinct is to drive as if we were in the seat we’re most used to, what we’re not necessarily used to is the different perspective being in the other side of the truck gives us
the fact remains, if the guy the OP is referring to had been driving left hookers for a while and had just jumped into a RHD, then I can totally understand how this could happen. I’m not saying it’s not a dumb mistake, it is, he clearly should have taken a bit more time to think through what he was doing, but it’s an easy mistake to make in the circumstances. But then I’ve always been of the opinion that not only am I NOT a driving God, other people are human too and may also be susceptible to the odd mistake.
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Trust me assuming that anyone is really driving a wagon to where they are sitting 
,as opposed to judging at all times over the overall corners,as I said ‘confirmed’ on the mirrors,that is a scary idea and certainly would make a large centre drive vehicle virtually un driveable.
So going by your logic explain why the idea of the inset narrow cab US conventional ( effectively centre drive position ),let alone real centre drive,wouldn’t have the even worse implications of a truck that is effectively out of control because the driver instinctively thinks that both sides are all judged relative to the RHD ( or LHD ) reference point.
The fact is it doesn’t happen because by that logic one side or the other is going to either be over the line or in the ditch. 
As for tail sweep in that regard assuming an artic that is totally out of sight and blind regardless and as I said as usual requires the same steering inputs to clear it regardless of driving position.While in the case of a rigid it is always in view and like an artic will always be on the opposite rear corner to a turn and require the same steering input to clear it regardless of where the driver happens to be sitting left,right,or centre.All of which is basic driving stuff certainly not so called ‘driving god’ requirements.
Therefore I’ve always had my doubts about the sense of being asked ‘can you handle a left ■■■■■■’ usually to the point where I just knew that they’d never believe me when I said yes I’ve driven left right and centre from day 1 of getting my licence.That question probably being based of previous excuses like in the case of the topic.
I reckon the driver just [zb]ed up and instead of admitting it he needed an excuse.
LHD, RHD, low cab, high cab, narrow cab, wide cab, the corner furthest away from you is always a matter of judgement once you start to turn and lose it in the mirrors, so no matter where you are relative to that corner an error of judgment will always be messy.
Carryfast does make a bit of sense, then he ruins it by wanting the trailer wheels right on the arse end, totally impractical in Britain as you need the wheels where they are to get around corners, put them further back and you would need to redesign half of the roads in the country.
newmercman:
Carryfast does make a bit of sense, then he ruins it by wanting the trailer wheels right on the arse end, totally impractical in Britain as you need the wheels where they are to get around corners, put them further back and you would need to redesign half of the roads in the country.
Firstly at Euro type overall lengths in general any corner that you can get round without taking anything out with the tail sweep at current type pin to axle measurements could also be got round without taking anything out with the cut in assuming the ridiculous levels of overhang were removed and put in front of the rear axles instead thereby increasing the measurement.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64245&hilit=american+trailers+uk&start=60#p792977
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=41082&hilit=kenworths+in+uk&start=60#p474530
The difference being that it’s a lot easier to enter a corner as wide as possible to just allow for it mostly if not all being on one side on the cut in.Instead of having the balancing act of having to allow for both the cut in and too much tail sweep on both opposite sides especially in the typical Euro ( and probably California case ) of not enough cut in but too much tail sweep.Especially in the case of the turning characteristics of an artic. 
Sorry but you’re talking complete ■■■■■■■■.
The only instance where tail swing is a problem is turning from a dead stop, if you’re moving and turning the forward motion means the sticky out bit at the back is already moving away from where it would start to poke out.
Don’t forget I actually have experience of dragging trailers around with the wheels on the arse end and they’re a bloody nightmare to get around a corner.
newmercman:
Sorry but you’re talking complete ■■■■■■■■.The only instance where tail swing is a problem is turning from a dead stop, if you’re moving and turning the forward motion means the sticky out bit at the back is already moving away from where it would start to poke out.
Don’t forget I actually have experience of dragging trailers around with the wheels on the arse end and they’re a bloody nightmare to get around a corner.
As I said you can’t just make the length disappear by putting it on the overhang.If you take it off the cut in and put it on the overhang it then becomes the often bigger problem of tail sweep which unlike cut in is more often out of view.By that measurement,just like cut in,the amount is dependent on the ‘severity of the turn’ not just wether it is moving.Although It’s obvious that the more severe the turn the slower it will be going to that point of obviously from a stop or at a crawl in the case of a very tight worse case turn.Just like cut in.
In which case great that short pin to axle measurement will mean that you won’t need to go so wide on entry to a corner,or a hairpin bend,but it doesn’t look so good when something catches or someone drives under or into the overhang which is obviously out of sight out of mind going sideways to a greater or lesser degree behind you.
Or for that matter when trying to turn away from a truck parked close on the tail sweep side as well as one being parked close on the cut in side.
But yes no one said driving a 53 foot semi trailer is going to be easy wether it’s running under Californian type measurements which like Euro are more about minimising cut in at the expense of tail sweep or vice versa.But realistically it’s better to only need to deal with the cut in on one side than having to deal with a mixture of both on both sides.As the story in the OP seems to yet again confirm.
IE Euro and Californian thinking in action. 
In practice adding as little as 2ft to the pin to axles makes a huge difference to how much room you need to swing out to make a turn. Trust me the wheels on the arse method causes more problems than it solves.
newmercman:
In practice adding as little as 2ft to the pin to axles makes a huge difference to how much room you need to swing out to make a turn. Trust me the wheels on the arse method causes more problems than it solves.
From my own point of view I was as happy as a pig in zb when I was given a drawbar outfit with tail sweep on the rigid I could see at all times and a trailer which had its axles at each end.At least on a job which usually involved having to turn out of tightly packed loading docks with sometimes restricted space ahead.As opposed to those nutter zb 45 foot tandem axle artics with their stupid Euro overhangs. 
Although the point being that the steering inputs needed to clear the cut in and tail sweep in all cases would have been the same wether they had been left,right or centre drive.
You can always rely on Carryfast to turn it into a 6 pager and win all arguments by his tactic of wearing every ■■■■ down to 2 grades below suicide
Just to add to the mix does any of you left ■■■■■■ drivers have difficulty adapting to your car at the weekends? My Mrs was a nervous wreck in the passenger side of the car when I was on left ■■■■■■ trucks. My brain kept telling me to hug the verge out of habit, as in the truck, and I kept kerbing the bloody wheels. Or was it just me? 
Anyway, at least it was a good excuse for her to do all the weekend driving
I’ve driven both lhd and rhd.
I lived in Germany for several years, driving lhd, then back to the UK and back into rhd vehicles again.
When I drove for Murfitts, they had a mixed fleet of l and rhd trucks. I spent a couple of months jumping from one truck to another, driving both l and rhd trucks.
The difficulty arises when you’re changing from one side of the cab to the other.
I drive a rhd in Europe most of the week now, with a couple of days in UK.
You position your truck on the road by looking at what is ahead of you, confirming your position by checking in your mirrors occasionally.
In a rhd in the UK you use the lane marker line and judge it against the kerb line. The same in a lhd in Europe.
The lane line should be almost straight ahead, the kerb line comes in at a sharper angle. It becomes ingrained over several years, so ingrained you rarely have to check your mirrors to double-check your road/lane position. Staying in the same truck, but swapping the side of the road you’re driving on makes little difference, you just line up on the kerb line instead.
When you change sides , your subconscious still wants to get exactly the same picture, so you have a tendency to wander out.
Hedges, lamp posts etc are whistling past millimetres from your left ear, or so it seems. So you have a tendency to wander out.
You have to force yourself to get close to the kerb and check your road/lane position in your mirrors frequently.
It takes a couple of hours or more of driving, before you feel comfortable with the new picture configuration. But when you get a bit tired, you’ll start to wander out again.
It takes a couple of weeks before you can whip through an Italian Telepass peage at 30mph, like you used to, or swing in and reverse onto a bay in a oner.
Your reversing ‘eye’ takes a couple of weeks to get used to looking over the wrong shoulder, it’s difficult to judge just where the front passenger side corner is going to go as well.
However tail swing is a problem common to whatever side of of the truck you’re sitting on, if you are sitting on the normal side of the truck for you.
If the driver has recently changed from lhd to rhd, or vise versa, then in the same way as it is difficult to judge just where your opposite front corner is going to go, it’s also difficult to judge just where the rear end is going to go and to judge if you’ve pulled far enough forward before screwing it round.
robroy:
Just to add to the mix does any of you left ■■■■■■ drivers have difficulty adapting to your car at the weekends? My Mrs was a nervous wreck in the passenger side of the car when I was on left ■■■■■■ trucks. My brain kept telling me to hug the verge out of habit, as in the truck, and I kept kerbing the bloody wheels. Or was it just me?
Anyway, at least it was a good excuse for her to do all the weekend driving
I was fine in my car, but I did my hgv 1 (C&E for you younger drivers) immediately after coming back to the UK, after 7 sold years of driving left hookers.
I did a course with a company in Wickford, called Amraf. They became one of those notorious broker companies. I was one of three learners sharing a cab, in a 2 days on 1 day off system for 2 weeks. I kept clipping the kerb in that. I failed that test 
, but passed a month later after a day training and test the next 