Cut a long story short me and me mate got shafted today which I know happens to us in this lovely trade of ours. Not a problem usually but…our supervisor who runs our depot knew that I had to be back for me dog as im looking after her while folks are on hols and after being asked to do night out I said no they said double man it, again no problem so ran from notts to mansfield, middleton, banbury and finish off swindon run back. Me mate had to be back to look after his kids and told boss this so we knew it would be 6am start and 7-8pm finish. We had problems with unloading at banbury as it wasnt booked in properly so went to swindon to offload the lot and told they have no room so you need to go to london to drop trailer before going home and it was already 5pm I told him I thought he was taking the ■■■■ but we’ll do it so he laughed his head off down the phone trying to wind me up and asked how dave was knowing full well he had his kids to sort out Anyway he told me to be in at 7am for MK delievery into clipper at 9am which I said “Wont be me duck” he asks why not I get 9 hours off to which I say “no I get 11 hours off and im taking them, I can reduce to nine if I choose to not if im told and after you shafting us with the attitude you’ve got I certainly arent gonna bend over to help you out” We didnt finish till 2230 anyway so I still wouldnt of made it for 9am slot and he rang us at 2200 to see if we were still out and to let us know as he laughed down the phone that our gaffa from lonodon is up tomorrow and we are right in for it for refusing to reduce our daily rest
My question after all that is…
Am I right in thinking I dont have to reduce, if I am how do I prove it as if I am wrong I will tell them im sorry I was wrong and take the rollocking. However if I am right I want to be clear before I have my meeting now scheduled for 12pm and we are not to come in till then either(result) so I can lay it on the table before he starts with the old “where is your loyalty” card. I swear the windmills are coming out if he even mentions that after all the crap ive put up with for them
If they start complaining, ask them,which is better
a fully rested driver who comes to work fit to do his
days work, or a driver who is knackered ,yes the rules
do say a two man team can take a nine hour break
however, if you are that tired and belive
you require more rest than I can not see
that they have a leg to stand on as its your licence and
sorry that REPREBATE is a stupid little man who is in need of a
brain transplant,ASK him what the H&S manager has to say about
this ,No employer would be that stupid as to let drivers go out when they are not fully rested,?
They seem bothered only that their slots times are made And im back on single manning tomorrow, forgot to add that he said to my mate tonight and I quote “you dont need 11 hours rest when double manning because you are meant to sleep/rest when you arent driving”
Will mention that one though thanks, not a lot they can say to that
It is soley down to the driver if he choices to reduce his daily rest, and after the shift you have done my attitude would be I am to tired to drive, without a full rest period, at one time you could not take a reduced break at base, and I for one have always stated finish as you did 22.30, travel home say 30 mins, travel back another 30 mins, by the time you have ate, cleaned up ect you are effectively having a 6 hour break, after a 16.5 hr shift, this is asking for the company to face prosecution under corperate manslaughter laws should you fall asleep behind the wheel due to lack of sleep.
OllieNotts:
Am I right in thinking I dont have to reduce
There is nothing in the regulatuions to prevent them scheduling the work so you have a reduced rest period so legally they are in the right. However, only you know if you are capable of driving after a 9 hour rest and if you told them you were too tired it would be a very foolish company who insisted you drove, if you had an accident they would be leaving themselves wide open to all sorts of claims.
duracell:
It is soley down to the driver if he choices to reduce his daily rest,
In the sense only he knows if he is capable of working after a reduced rest, but they are entitled to schedule the work as they see fit, as long as it is done so to comply with the tacho regs.
duracell:
at one time you could not take a reduced break at base
That was only ever a drivers Urban Myth where they confused part of the old weekly rest requirements with daily rest. There wasn’t a location restriction on daily rest.
I have never taken a reduced rest period at home but I have posted many times about a driver being more rested by having 9 hours off in the cab then 11 at home.
You have to drive home, feed yourself kick the wife and kiss the dog, then a long debate about having new curtains, kitchen, fridge, car etc. or you go for a pint because you are in the darts team. Next morning you have to drive back to work after kissing the dog and kicking the wife again. Probably all that with 5 hours sleep
Wheel Nut:
I have never taken a reduced rest period at home but I have posted many times about a driver being more rested by having 9 hours off in the cab then 11 at home.
You have to drive home, feed yourself kick the wife and kiss the dog, then a long debate about having new curtains, kitchen, fridge, car etc. or you go for a pint because you are in the darts team. Next morning you have to drive back to work after kissing the dog and kicking the wife again. Probably all that with 5 hours sleep
This is to true, i normally awake at 2am in for for 3am, then im back home normally anytime around 12am to 1pm, then by the time the day is fineshed im going to sleep around 8/9pm at night, getting 5hours sleep, and thats everynight while im working with out my, 1 or 2 days off…
Thanks for the replies, thing is they actually knew we wouldnt be done till at least 2200 so they told us one of us was to come in for 7am or they would be in the ■■■■. Now when we dont finish till 2230 we would be breaking the law if we were to of done this and I will be pointing it out to the gaffa. Our supervisor is starting to expect little things like pulling tacho’s out earlier then we finish(working time) or putting them in as we leave yard so we can effectively extend our working day and while ever I keep digging my heels in the attitude coming back is starting to P me off I think it is gonna have to be said as im sure it could be the start of little bent things here and there till they expect more. My old boss told me to have 8 hours off once and bang my card in an hour down the road and when I said no all hell broke loose Not their license or their problem if I am the one who gets caught is it? nobs!!
OllieNotts:
Not their license or their problem if I am the one who gets caught is it? nobs!!
Actually it is their licence that counts. there are many drivers on here under the impression they will lose their licences for minor indiscretions when in reality it is quite rare. The TC may suspend a drivers licence for 2 or 3 weeks for blatant fiddling. But they can and do revoke operators licences on a regular basis.
If you are at work your card should be in the tacho or marked on the reverse/manual entry etc. When you finish work including documentation and debrief you can book off. Putting your card in an hour down the road will only attract unwanted attention from VOSA.
Several times you have mentioned that it is your supervisor who is pressurising you, have you had a quiet word with the bloke who signed the O licence application? maybe he is not aware that someone he trusts is putting his licence at risk.
OllieNotts:
‘…Our supervisor is starting to expect little things like pulling tacho’s out earlier then we finish(working time) or putting them in as we leave yard so we can effectively extend our working day … bang my card in an hour down the road…’
You double manned. The daily rest requirements for double manning are 9hrs out of every 30hrs. There is no reduction from 11hrs as the 11hr daily rest rule does not apply. Therefore, if you started at 6am on Monday you could legally work through until 1am on Tuesday morning, have 9hrs off then start again at 10am.
As regarding being right, no you weren’t. Unless the reasons for not starting after a 9hr break, WHICH WOULD NOT BE A REDUCED ONE AS THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT UNDER DOUBLE MANNING, were for safety, then you are most likely in breach of your contract of employment for failing to carry out the reasonable orders of the management. With some companies, breach of this particular clause of your contract is classed as Gross Misconduct which means you can be instantly dismissed without notice.
Even on single manning rules, unless the reason for refusal to take a reduced break is on the grounds of safety or to comply with EU drivers hours rules, then you are in breach of your contract of employment.
Regarding the other points later on about dodgy tacho stuff, you might want to think carefully about bringing it up at the moment however I’ll just point out that it could mark your cards if you do. I’m not advocating it and I support your stance on it but just saying to be careful about the timing if you want to keep your job, especially with this weeks events.
Nothing to do with drivers hours etc. Your starting point is do you have a contract of employment. It’s amazing how many firms don’t bother with them. If you haven’t then it weakens any argument the management might have. If you don’t have one I would point this out to the management and let them know it’s ILLEGAL to fail to issue one. Then take it from there. If you have one you need to take a look at it to see what’s there. Drivers hours regs, WTD etc. have nothing to do with this it’s a contract issue.
Right well meeting was calm and gaffa decided to accept my reasons for not coming in at 7am. That being had I of done so I would of had to of pulled my card at 2200 before I finished work at 2230 and he has said under no circumstance am I or anyone here to start games like that its his name on O license and he wants us running properly so I am to keep doing what I have been and ignore the nob who is implying otherwise
Another point is that I told him I dont mind being shafted as it happens in our job but the way in which we were when our supervisor knew of the issues we both had and he carried on anyway laughing made me take on his F you attitude and retaliate with same when you wanted me in after 9 hours. A line has been drawn and it is done, they know I am a good worker as is the other bloke we do 15 hours single manning regular and never once have I ever moaned about it. Good to know he is happy not to start bending rules to get work done as he was going to get the option of legal or find another driver, I will not risk losing my license for something stupid like pulling cards when I am working and trying to scam my way round shorter rest periods. It cost me 2k to get the bloody thing and if it means having no job for a bit its better then getting a massive fine or losing it all together
Think our supervisor took a rollocking to for not telling the gaffa our situations before we took the job on and he has made himself look silly making much of nothing and he sulked off tonight without saying goodbye or what time we are all in tomorrow
so went to swindon to offload the lot and told they have no room so you need to go to london to drop trailer before going home and it was already 5pm 
I told him I thought he was taking the ■■■■ but we’ll do it so he laughed his head off down the phone trying to wind me up and asked how dave was knowing full well he had his kids to sort out 
Anyway he told me to be in at 7am for MK delievery into clipper at 9am which I said “Wont be me duck” he asks why not I get 9 hours off to which I say “no I get 11 hours off and im taking them, I can reduce to nine if I choose to not if im told and after you shafting us with the attitude you’ve got I certainly arent gonna bend over to help you out” We didnt finish till 2230 anyway so I still wouldnt of made it for 9am slot and he rang us at 2200 to see if we were still out and to let us know as he laughed down the phone that our gaffa from lonodon is up tomorrow and we are right in for it for refusing to reduce our daily rest 
Not their license or their problem if I am the one who gets caught is it? nobs!! 
