Due to there being a change in the law our boss has informed us that he needs some ADR qualified drivers. This week he informed us that the course will take place over three weekends with the first being this sunday,next saturday and sunday and the following sunday. He then tells us that as he is footing the bill for this we would not be getting paid. Is this industry standard now or is he tighter than the preverbial duck,s bottom. After all, none of us asked for ADR training. Is it worth three weekends work?. Your thoughts please!
By law ADR training has to be part of your working week as far as driving reg are concerned!
you employer doesnt have to pay you! but its still your choice if you do it or not!
I for one would tell him to take a run and jump!
When I did mine in 1994 one local employer not only didn’t pay his drivers for attending, but also deducted the money from the course out of there wages week by week. However in those days drivers were easy to find, so he could get away with it.
I would’nt except not being paid for attending the course, but make sure you had a good chance of finding another job. Although I don’t think he would win if you went to tribunal for constructive dismisal.
no sorry if a company wants you to attend an adr course and it’s during your time off, then he either arranges it that it is held during a normal working week,or if during time off he pays you for it.because at the end of the day he gets more money for his company to carry adr,and i ain’t seen no law saying that you must have adr to drive a truck.there’s only one thing he can put in place that is if you leave the company within a certain time limit then you have to repay the cost of the course.apart from that carrying adr is a pain in the rear anyway,with all the segregation etc,if carrying certain chemicals that don’t like each other,or if your carrying food.nightmare.
just a tip for you’s adr trainees… if your carrying adr and yous have a passenger then they must have there adr as well. 
kitkat:
just a tip for you’s adr trainees… if your carrying adr and yous have a passenger then they must have there adr as well.
Thats not quite correct!!! 
in fact its not even a little correct
The rules are if you must leave any truck carring dangerous substances, you must leave it with a competant person!!! The current EU rules on a competant person is anyone over the age of 16!!!
I have drove Tankers and carried my son who is only 5 a few times! he does not have a ADR cert! 
but its quite legal depending on your companies policy!!
I am currently doing DGSA. (its bloody expensive)
Im afraid Kitkat is right critic.
Anyone in the cab as passenger or crew member has to have ADR. The competent person bit is if you park somewhere open to the public then a competent person over 18 must be in charge of vehicle.
Again the ADR rules are bound by International ruling and each country does have variations, but it is certainly not legal to carry 5 year olds in a hazardous truck
don’t think that course is doing you any good critic if you think that you can leave a 5 year old in charge of a tanker full of fuels etc. 
cheers wheelnut. 
kitkat:
don’t think that course is doing you any good critic if you think that you can leave a 5 year old in charge of a tanker full of fuels etc.cheers wheelnut.
Ok if I must I will quote the Law
quote
UK Domestic Regulations -
UK Carrage of Dangerous goods (classification, Packagining and Labeling) and use of Transportable Pressure receptacles regulations 1996.
Supported by the approved requirements and test mothods and approved carriage list.
UK carriage of Dangerous by road regulations 1996
Driver training regulations,Dangerous Goods safty advisor regulations.
Journey rules. 1.3
1.No unautherised passengers.
2.Do not open packages
3 Do not use portable lighter or cookers, which consists of a flame.
While the dangerous goods are still loaded, the vehicle must be supervised by the driver or by a compentent person who is over the age of 18 and understands what to do in an emergency…
end quote
So ends the popular belief that any passenger must also have a ADR certificate and passingers must be of a certan age. Any autherised passenger may travel on any Vehicle in the UK regardless.
This was confirmed today by the head DGSA from Univar who is also a DGSA teacher.
excuse me if im being daft but doesnt what youve posted say the person has to be over 18 critic? sorry if i`m wrong-just outta bed!
JONBOY@RH:
excuse me if im being daft but doesnt what youve posted say the person has to be over 18 critic? sorry if i`m wrong-just outta bed!
No what it says is is if you have to leave the Truck you can only leave it with a competent person over 18.
Nowhere does it say you must have a ADR cert or over 18 to travel as a pasenger in a ADR registered Truck!
No unautherised passengers,
does this not tell you anything critic
someone that is not authorised ie hold a adr certificate is not allowed in the vehicle.and if you want to get this backed up contact your local traffic cops just incase your wondering why , it happen to one of our drivers last year,he covers east kilbride area, and he used to give one of our night shift a lift home. this particular morning he was carrying adr and got stopped just b4 he dropped the lad off at motherwell.the police said i notice your carrying adr,can i see your certificate,the driver showed him the certificate,then the police officer asked for his passenger’s certificate,the driver told him that he did not have one,and that he was one of our nightshift workers & that he was just dropping him off. the police officer said that although he was a work member he still needed an adr certificate to be in the passenger seat.the driver like you critic explained that he did not realise that passengers required the certificate to travel.the police officer said yes he does, i should issue you with a ticket, but i will let it go this time driver,please bear it in mind the next time .so critic i ain’t saying this to wind you up or anything like it,i’m just trying to prevent you and other one’s out there who have or are about to do there adr course,just to beware of the passengers that they carry whilst carrying adr. 
It says it here though!
The Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (Driver Training) Regulations 1996 (as amended 1999) contains the full requirements of the driver training requirements for drivers of vehicles carrying dangerous goods. All such drivers and vehicle attendants, as with all personnel, require training and instruction [See the General Requirements].
General requirements for carriage
12.–(1) No operator of a container, tank or vehicle shall cause or permit to be carried therein any dangerous goods unless–
(a) he has obtained the consignor’s declaration, if applicable, or an authenticated copy thereof, in relation to those goods; and
(b) he has taken all reasonable steps to ensure that those goods are in a condition fit for carriage.
(2) No driver of a vehicle which is being used for the carriage of dangerous goods shall cause or permit to be carried therein any person (other than a member of the vehicle crew) for the sole purpose of transporting that person.
Drivers and attendants should keep their certificates with them at all times when transporting dangerous goods.
Supervision and parking of vehicles
24.–(1) Subject to paragraph (2), the operator of any vehicle which is being used for the carriage of dangerous goods and the driver of that vehicle shall ensure that when the vehicle is parked it is–
(a) supervised at all times by a competent person–
(i) over the age of 18 years, or
(ii) who is a member of the armed forces; or
(b) parked in an isolated position–
(i) unsupervised in the open in a secure depot or secure factory premises, or, if no such facilities are available,
(ii) in a vehicle park supervised by an appropriate person who has been notified of the nature of the load and the whereabouts of the driver, or if no such facilities are available,
(iii) in a public or private vehicle park where the vehicle is not likely to suffer damage from any other vehicle, or, if no such facilities are available,
(iv) in a suitable open space separated from the public highway and from dwellings, where the public does not normally pass or assemble,
having first been properly secured.
Another part of this problem is HSE and letting a 5 year old into a chemical factory unless critic wants to leave him in the gatehouse with some fat security bloke who might be a ■■■■■■■■■■.
The only thing I will agree with is the cost of doing DGSA, I let mine run out because of the cost of keeping up to date with the regs and the price of the books needed.
This was another of these EU rules which require everyone involved in carrying Hazardous Goods have to have an Advisor.
We in the UK did this but the other countries do as they like as normal.
There aint no money in DGSA
Having read that quite clearly I agree with you!
But no where does it state that a passinger in a Truck running under ADR regs, must have a ADR certificate!!!
An attendant is not just a passinger! an attendant is someone who is employed by the company to assist in loading/unloading or moving the vehicle safely!
A passinger is exactly that just a passinger!
kitkat it seams to me you have been just another person who has been told by the police that what they say is the Law quite a few time out of a hundred they are totaly wrong!! but they think they sound good so keep on trying to be impressive. The real reason why he let you off was you wasnt braking any law in the 1st place! you should have complained to your DGSA and he would have put them right!!
as for DGSA’s here on Teesside they are very hard to come by and earn over £30k part time for doing very little! mostly just the legal year end report!
An attendant is not just a passinger! an attendant is someone who is employed by the company to assist in loading/unloading or moving the vehicle safely
kitkat it seams to me you have been just another person who has been told by the police that what they say is the Law quite a few time out of a hundred they are totaly wrong!! but they think they sound good so keep on trying to be impressive. The real reason why he let you off was you wasnt braking any law in the 1st place! you should have complained to your DGSA and he would have put them right
ref top one …critic he will still need a certificate to travel in the vehicle
next…if this driver was me critic i don’t need to disguise it by stateing one of our drivers, if the police don’t know the law then i suppose every driver or person who has been arrested or booked by the police must be wrong.and can you prove to this forum that the police are totally wrong 
that way if i get pulled i can tell them you said there wrong, and they will let me off with it as your never wrong
(2) No driver of a vehicle which is being used for the carriage of dangerous goods shall cause or permit to be carried therein any person (other than a member of the vehicle crew) for the sole purpose of transporting that person.
That sounds like no passengers to me!
I had to take our office bod with me to the German head office for a meeting. I had two empty uncleaned tanks for the train in Eifeltor. We were pulled on the Heerlen border and he had to find a taxi after organising a 1000dm fine.
When it comes to employer funded training, surely you could argue that its illegal under tacho rules, as you must have your weekly rest.
If he is telling you that you need to be there then it is not a rest period, it is a break from driving, which cannot be taken as a rest period.