Evening
At what volume does ADR become applicable?
And, can you drive an empty tanker without an ADR?
Cheers
Paul
At what volume does ADR become applicable?
It depends on what it is…
And, can you drive an empty tanker without an ADR?
If it has been cleaned, yes, and not all tank work is under adr.
sonflowerinwales:
At what volume does ADR become applicable?
Depends what music you’re listening to
sonflowerinwales:
And, can you drive an empty tanker without an ADR?
Yes. Or No. Depends on what’s been in it.Remember the vapour in some empty tanks can make them just as hazardous as loaded ones. And remember that unless a tank has been cleaned out and certified as such, it has to remain on hazardous boards as if it was loaded.
Hi sonflowerinwales,
Due to the way that you’ve worded your question, or me not quite understanding it, I need to split your post up a bit…
sonflowerinwales:
At what volume does ADR become applicable?
To answer this, I need to ask whether the dangerous goods are being carried in packages please?
If so, the answer about the volume depends on the ADR Transport Category of the dangerous goods, because each Transport Category has different ‘freebie’ limits before the full requirement of ADR are triggered into action as per the following table.
The above relates to PACKAGED dangerous goods, but does NOT relate to dangerous goods carried in a tank.
sonflowerinwales:
And, can you drive an empty tanker without an ADR?
As already mentioned, as general rule, an ADR licence is NOT needed if the goods being carried in the tank are not legally counted as “dangerous” goods. If this is this case, all you’d need is the relevant driving licence for the vehicle.
Now to “dangerous” goods.
By “tanker” can I assume a tank vehicle (carrying a fixed tank) having a capacity of >1,000 litres please?
If so, AND the goods are legally counted as “dangerous” goods, then an ADR licence is required. As already mentioned, that applies EVEN IF the tanker is empty but not cleaned out, .
If the tanker has carried dangerous goods and has been correctly certificated as having been cleaned and purged, including the removal of all dangerous goods markings and placards etc, then it reverts to being an ordinary vehicle for which just the relevant driving licence is required.
To put that another way, if there are any dangerous goods, or even the residue or vapour of dangerous goods in a tanker, then an ADR tanks licence for the relevant UN Class of dangerous goods is required right from the moment the tanker goes on the road.
There are one or two exemptions, but they don’t seem relevant from the info you’ve given.
If my answer is unclear, could you give me a clue as to exactly what you’re carrying and whether it’s packaged, or in a tanker please?
Dieseldave
Thank you for a comprehensive reply.
The origin of the question is from my wife!!!
I’ve just passed +E and she asked if I could drive a tanker, hence the question.
There’s no planned job or anything, all I know is that 1000 litres of water in a container is outside of ADR.
So, if I understand your answer correctly, I could drive a certified clean petrol tanker or a full tanker depending on the load. Other stuff depends on the transport category.
Cheers
Paul
hiya mate,
just to jump in here your technically right as long as the petrol tanker has been cleaned and purged and you have proof of this via a cleaning certificate and said tanker was not displaying any hazard placards on the tank then your good to go without an ADR.
i am currently waiting for my ADR to come back from DVLA so in work i cant drive a tanker containing any hazardous goods unless its been cleaned and not displaying hazard boards. however i can load, drive and tip oils, and other non hazardous stuff.
lots of foodstuff is moved by tankers including milk, gloucose, beer, chocolate etc…this is fine to drive without ADR…hope this helps matey…
sonflowerinwales:
Dieseldave
Thank you for a comprehensive reply.
The origin of the question is from my wife!!!
Hi Paul,
Your good lady wife is equally welcome to my answer. 
sonflowerinwales:
I’ve just passed +E and she asked if I could drive a tanker, hence the question.
CONGRATULATIONS on passing your “C+E” test
Nice one mate!!
Given that you’ve only just added the “+E,” you could have driven any rigid (Cat “C”) tanker before you passed the “+E” driving test. (Depending on whether the ‘stuff’ being carried is ‘dangerous.’)
The LGV driving licence is pretty much looking at chassis, axle and gross weights, but doesn’t have regard to the type of bodywork.
A “tank” is just one of a number of bodywork options for Cat "C"or “C+E” vehicles, a few other common options being:
- Flat
- Box
- Curtainsider (AKA a ‘tautliner’)
- Euroliner
- Tilt
- Tipper
- Low loader/special types
- Livestock carrier
- Container carrier (AKA a ‘skelly’)
- Any that I’ve missed etc etc
sonflowerinwales:
There’s no planned job or anything, all I know is that 1000 litres of water in a container is outside of ADR.
Correct mate, as is anything else that’s not legally counted as dangerous, such as all the examples that wirralpete has given above.
sonflowerinwales:
So, if I understand your answer correctly, I could drive a certified clean petrol tanker or a full tanker depending on the load.
Yes, spot-on mate.
sonflowerinwales:
Other stuff depends on the transport category.
Goods legally regarded as “dangerous goods,” which are carried in packages have a partial exemption from the full requirements of ADR, (Eg. no orange boards or ADR licence needed) but this ‘freebie’ depends on the ADR Tranansport Category as in the little table in my last post above. From that table, the less danger posed by the goods attracts a greater amount of ‘freebie’ allowance.
ADR Cat 0 (zero) goods have no ‘freebie’ because they’re horrendously dangerous.
There are NO ‘freebies’ when a tanker is carrying dangerous goods, even when nominally empty, because the goods aren’t in packages.
If dangerous goods are loose loaded in a tipper (ADR allows this for some dangerous goods) then the tipper is treated similarly to a tanker in that there are NO ‘freebies’ due to the absence of packages.
I hope that helps.
sonflowerinwales:
I’ve just passed +E
And now, the real training starts
Thanks for the congratulations guys.
It’s just “clicked” about ADR. It’s for nasty liquid loads and not stuff like milk. So once again.
Thank you
Cheers
Paul
sonflowerinwales:
It’s just “clicked” about ADR. It’s for nasty liquid loads and not stuff like milk.
That’s it mate, but another way of saying it is that ADR is for dangerous goods, cos whether the dangerous goods are liquids or solids isn’t really important.
There are many solids that count as ‘dangerous,’ and can be carried in a tanker, or sometimes in a tipper or skip.
The key to this is whether a substance (liquid or solid) has a UN number and appears in the dangerous goods list as a substance regulated by ADR, so if a substance isn’t in the ADR regulated list, then it isn’t regarded as ‘dangerous.’
Some examples of non-dangerous commodities that can be carried in a tanker without the driver needing an ADR licence:
- custard
- honey
- table salt
- water
- sand
- milk
- molasses
- cement
I hope that helps.
Custard is very, very dangerous. Be warned.
dave_k:
Custard is very, very dangerous. Be warned.
Hi dave_k
Whilst I generally agree that custard (even custard powder) has some hazardous properties, it isn’t mentioned in ADR’s dangerous goods list as a dangerous substance. The reason for this is that it doesn’t meet any of the ADR dangerous goods classification criteria.
The point I was answering for the OP is that a non-ADR trained driver CAN carry custard (even custard powder) and the other commodities I mentioned in a tanker without needing ADR licence.
Having thought about it for another minute, I’ll add flour to that list.
i was joking btw…
dieseldave:
dave_k:
Custard is very, very dangerous. Be warned.Hi dave_k
Whilst I generally agree that custard (even custard powder) has some hazardous properties, it isn’t mentioned in ADR’s dangerous goods list as a dangerous substance. The reason for this is that it doesn’t meet any of the ADR dangerous goods classification criteria.The point I was answering for the OP is that a non-ADR trained driver CAN carry custard (even custard powder) and the other commodities I mentioned in a tanker without needing ADR licence.
Having thought about it for another minute, I’ll add flour to that list.
It just shows that things that are not classified can still be dangerous in the wrong environment or wrong hands 
I A controlled Flour Explosion
I was joking too!
dave_k:
i was joking btw…
Hi dave_k,
Even so, we’re both correct.
Thanks for making me smile, again.
This forum is an excellent source of information and entertainment…
Drive safe
Paul