ADR Question

I’ve never been remotely arsed for carrying dangerous goods and much of my trucking has been on car transporters so it’s never been an issue but I’ve recently been put on the course (Packages, company paid) and now I’m transporting all sorts of nasties.
So far the Dangerous Goods Notes have always been provided and all has been dandy but the other day, there was 7 tonnes of flammable liquid in drums on the trailer but no DGN, only the standard company delivery note. All our wagons carry a generic laminate with all classes of dangerous goods.
My question is…Can the stuff be carried using only the generic laminate thingy or does the original DGN for that specific load (signed by the consignor) need to be carried in the cab? As you can guess, the ADR training bloke wasn’t very good and this is a bit of a grey area for me.
Maybe one for DieselDave?

You need paperwork with the class, un number, packing group (if applicable) and quantity on it

Shrek:
I’ve never been remotely arsed for carrying dangerous goods and much of my trucking has been on car transporters so it’s never been an issue but I’ve recently been put on the course (Packages, company paid) and now I’m transporting all sorts of nasties.
So far the Dangerous Goods Notes have always been provided and all has been dandy but the other day, there was 7 tonnes of flammable liquid in drums on the trailer but no DGN, only the standard company delivery note. All our wagons carry a generic laminate with all classes of dangerous goods.
My question is…Can the stuff be carried using only the generic laminate thingy or does the original DGN for that specific load (signed by the consignor) need to be carried in the cab? As you can guess, the ADR training bloke wasn’t very good and this is a bit of a grey area for me.
Maybe one for DieselDave?

Hi Shrek,

I’m not sure what type of work you’re doing, but you CANNOT carry seven tonnes of flammable liquid using only the generic 4-page document. :open_mouth:
(BTW, it’s called Instructions In Writing (IIW) )

Now for DGNs… A ‘proper’ DGN is only required for multi-modal work, such as road-sea or road-rail.

If it’s a standard type job from A to B on uk work, then all you need is an ADR compliant Transport Document, which is just ADR’s fancy name for a delivery note.

For a UK A to B job by road only, an ADR Transport Document can be a plain bit of paper of the company’s own devising, but it MUST have the following info on it.

  1. The four digit UN number for the goods, preceded by the letters “UN”
  2. The Proper Shipping Name for the goods
  3. The UN Class number, (followed by any subsidiary class number(s) in brackets)
  4. The Packing Group (Roman numerals either PG I, PGII or PGIII) if applicable [it will be for UN Class 3 :wink: ]
  5. The ADR Tunnel Code, (in brackets) if applicable.

NOTE: Items 1 - 5 above must be in that order, and with no other information shoved in with it.

For example… UN 1203 PETROL, 3, PGII, (D/E)

Also required, but can be anywhere on the SAME document…

  1. The number and type of packages (my guess is that 7 tonnes should probably written as 35 drums, or 7 IBCs)

  2. The total mass of the goods of that UN number

  3. The name and address of the consignor

  4. The name and address of the consignee

Haulier’s name and address = Not Required for this job
Vehicle registration number = Not Required for this job

In addition to the Transport Document, you’ll also need your four-page IIW as well as all the kit and equipment listed on it for Class 3.

I hope this helps. :smiley:

Thanks Dave, you’re a diamond mate!

For info, I made the warehouse staff remove the offending 7 tonnes before I left the yard and it didn’t get delivered.

Quick one for you Dave, should I be carrying Limited Quantities if I know absolutely ■■■■ all about ADR. More specifically will I get in any trouble?

Jimmy McNulty:
Quick one for you Dave, should I be carrying Limited Quantities if I know absolutely [zb] all about ADR. More specifically will I get in any trouble?

Hi Jimmy,

As a minimum… when carrying LQs (retail type stuff in retail type packages) you need some ADR awareness training which has been documented. (This does NOT mean an ADR card.)

If you are an employed driver, it is for your employer to organise and pay for this for you because he’s the one asking you do do the job.

:bulb: If you attend just day #1 of an ADR course (no exam needed) you’ll get a certificate which will count as the required documented ADR awareness and you could get 7hrs DCPC at the same time.

dieseldave:

Jimmy McNulty:
Quick one for you Dave, should I be carrying Limited Quantities if I know absolutely [zb] all about ADR. More specifically will I get in any trouble?

Hi Jimmy,

As a minimum… when carrying LQs (retail type stuff in retail type packages) you need some ADR awareness training which has been documented. (This does NOT mean an ADR card.)

If you are an employed driver, it is for your employer to organise and pay for this for you because he’s the one asking you do do the job.

:bulb: If you attend just day #1 of an ADR course (no exam needed) you’ll get a certificate which will count as the required documented ADR awareness and you could get 7hrs DCPC at the same time.

And if I was to carry LQ’s without the awareness certificate and get a pull or be involved in an accident what would the penalty be? Just so I can refuse with good reason should I be asked

Jimmy McNulty:
And if I was to carry LQ’s without the awareness certificate and get a pull or be involved in an accident what would the penalty be? Just so I can refuse with good reason should I be asked

I can’t really say what an enforcement officer would do in that situation except to say that they usually deal with ADR offences by use of a prohibition. This is because very little in ADR is actually the responsibility of an employed driver.

I’d guess that any penalty would be for the employer because he’s ordered you to do a job (that he ought to know) that you’re not supposed to do.

The problem is ADR is very complex and its the consignors duty to get it right in other words the people who asked you to move the material and provided the material. If it all goes wrong all 3 parties get a load of trouble. Consignor , transport company and the driver. If you are not working for a specialist ADR haulage company it might be time to start looking for a new job. I worked for a while for an ADR company and there was only one boffin who I trusted to get the paperwork correct the others just bluffed it. Just try being in a RTA, roll-over, fire or leaking containers without the right paperwork in your grab-bag to hand to the emergency services.

ukjamesuk:
The problem is ADR is very complex and its the consignors duty to get it right in other words the people who asked your employer (the Carrier) to move the material and provided the material.

The consignor has the responsibility you described, but he additionally has to notify the Carrier that the job is LQs and state the total of such goods.
This has to be done in a traceable form, and in advance of carriage taking place. [ADR 3.4.12]

ukjamesuk:
If it all goes wrong all 3 parties get a load of trouble. Consignor , transport company and the driver.

Sorry, but not quite.

ADR 1.4.1 describes the responsibilities of those involved, but there’s no specific mention of drivers in ADR 1.4.1

Upon receipt of this information it is for the carrier (amongst a lot of other things under ADR 1.4.1) to allocate a suitably qualified driver to do the job.

At the end of it all, an employed driver simply does what his boss tells him to do.

The worse situation is hauling for the waste industry. Lots of pallets of different nasties.

ukjamesuk:
The worse situation is hauling for the waste industry. Lots of pallets of different nasties.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this, but when dangerous goods are involved, it is for the consignor to identify, classify and document the dangerous goods that they send out.

The fact that it’s waste makes no difference if it’s waste dangerous goods.

A regular run from a manufacturer or distributor tends to be just that regular, the waste industry hauls mixed loads of all kinds of chemicals away from factories

ukjamesuk:
A regular run from a manufacturer or distributor tends to be just that regular, the waste industry hauls mixed loads of all kinds of chemicals away from factories

The consignor, haulier and driver still have to comply with the law. Sounds like your biggest problem could be segregation. A blind eye is not a valid defence to be honest

Thanks for all the discussion on this thread, I’ve certainly got a better grip on the paperwork aspect of carrying ADR. I work for what I consider to be a good company but sometimes the office staff get it wrong.
Turns out I was right to query the load mentioned in the original post because although our own company paperwork was compliant for a UK to UK journey, the stuff had actually come from abroad so it counted as part of it’s overall international trip. It was taken off the trailer and the company didn’t bat an eyelid, it wasn’t ever mentioned again.
The trainer in the ADR course was more interested in telling us about his previous career in the chemical industry and how awesome he was…not saying I didn’t learn owt, I did but he could have been a lot better.
Thanks Diesel Dave for putting it into perspective.

Shrek:
… I work for what I consider to be a good company but sometimes the office staff get it wrong.

Hi Shrek,

I can join up a few more dots here too…
You company must have a properly qualified DGSA. ( = This person holds a proper DGSA Certificate issued by SQA.)

It can be the boss himself, or it can be one of the office staff, or they employ an outside contractor as a consultant.

There is no equivalent qualification, so it can’t be the H&S guy unless he’s got a DGSA Certificate too!

Part of the DGSA’s duties are to monitor and advise the company.

If that were being done correctly, the weakness in the paperwork system should be identified and dealt with by way of some function-specific training, which has been documented. [ADR 1.3.1]
The DGSA can do the training, or he/she can get somebody else to carry it out.

Shrek:
Turns out I was right to query the load mentioned in the original post because although our own company paperwork was compliant for a UK to UK journey, the stuff had actually come from abroad so it counted as part of it’s overall international trip.

This is possibly true, but there’s a little more to it.

It will depend on several (variable) factors as well as ADR’s definition of “Carriage.