Yorkshire Tramper:
oldwelshdude:
Even if it’s a thimble of something that falls under ADR then yes you need to display your orange ADR signage on the truck
As for separation…I wouldn’t put it in the chiller [emoji23] but if in doubt and it’s only small you could put it in the cab with you [emoji6]
I wouldn’t have thought putting a flamable product that may give off flamable fumes in you’re cab with you was a great idea. be safer in the back kept cool where the flash point of the product would hopefully be improved. Even a small amount of this carried would need a sticker on the unit and trailer, it alerts the fire and emergency services what is being carried in the event of an accident. It really depends on how much and how dangerous the product is I suppose as to the storage method.
Agreed… it’s not a good idea to carry dangerous goods in a driver’s cab.
The flashpoint of a product wouldn’t be altered, no matter where you carry it.
For UN Classes 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9, ‘stickers’ are NOT required by ADR on a road journey, no matter how much is on board. The ADR requirement for vehicle markings are a plain reflectorised orange plate to be displayed one on the front and one on the rear of a vehicle carrying an amount of packaged dangerous goods in excess of the relevant ADR TC limit.
Yorkshire Tramper:
Wheel Nut:
What did your Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor suggest?
It is no longer the drivers responsibility to worry about labels, placards and quantity. for good reason
I would say quite clearly in this case it was exactly that & left for the driver to discover. Someone somewhere has authorised this to go ahead and be loaded there must be a paper trail leading to whom is responsible. Personaly I would have refused to carry it as I do not have an ADR and the truck was not marked up in accordance. It may well have been a case of someone could have labeled the package up incorrectly but would you really want to take the chance of carrying something potentially dangerous? I cannot imagine any haulage contractor allowing this to happen knowingly.
I agree with your comments, apart from a refusal to carry the load.
In ADR, it is clearly the carrier’s responsibility to know whether or what regs apply to any job.
In other words, if your boss tells you it’s ok for you to carry it, then that turns out to be untrue… it’s still your boss’ problem, not yours.
Wheel Nut is correct… the decision as to whether/what regs apply was removed from a driver’s responsibilities in 2004.
Since 01/01/2000, both a consignor AND a carrier have been legally required to have a properly qualified DGSA.
dieseldave:
Yorkshire Tramper:
oldwelshdude:
Even if it’s a thimble of something that falls under ADR then yes you need to display your orange ADR signage on the truck
As for separation…I wouldn’t put it in the chiller [emoji23] but if in doubt and it’s only small you could put it in the cab with you [emoji6]
I wouldn’t have thought putting a flamable product that may give off flamable fumes in you’re cab with you was a great idea. be safer in the back kept cool where the flash point of the product would hopefully be improved. Even a small amount of this carried would need a sticker on the unit and trailer, it alerts the fire and emergency services what is being carried in the event of an accident. It really depends on how much and how dangerous the product is I suppose as to the storage method.
Agreed… it’s not a good idea to carry dangerous goods in a driver’s cab.
The flashpoint of a product wouldn’t be altered, no matter where you carry it.
For UN Classes 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9, ‘stickers’ are NOT required by ADR on a road journey, no matter how much is on board. The ADR requirement for vehicle markings are a plain reflectorised orange plate to be displayed one on the front and one on the rear of a vehicle carrying an amount of packaged dangerous goods in excess of the relevant ADR TC limit.
I was thinking that the material kept cooler would improve the flashpoint from the point of view that the air around it was cooler so would not reach a boiling point quicker or give off fumes, no idea and certainly wouldnt argue the point against someone with ADR who knows their stuff. I have learned something from this post which is worthwhile anyway.
idrive:
Stephenjp:
You are allowed to carry TC (tranport category) 3. 1000 litres/Kg TC 2. 333 litres/Kg TC 1. 50 litres/Kg of ADR without plates or adr kit
I wasted £500 and a week of my life to believe that this is correct.
Some terrible information on this thread
In this instance, the only thing that’s incorrect in the quote is that the “50” should be 20, so I’d give the benefit of a typo.
dieseldave:
idrive:
Stephenjp:
You are allowed to carry TC (tranport category) 3. 1000 litres/Kg TC 2. 333 litres/Kg TC 1. 50 litres/Kg of ADR without plates or adr kit
I wasted £500 and a week of my life to believe that this is correct.
Some terrible information on this thread
In this instance, the only thing that’s incorrect in the quote is that the “50” should be 20, so I’d give the benefit of a typo.
Maybe it wasn’t wasted after all
Yorkshire Tramper:
I was thinking that the material kept cooler would improve the flashpoint from the point of view that the air around it was cooler so would not reach a boiling point quicker or give off fumes, no idea and certainly wouldnt argue the point against someone with ADR who knows their stuff. I have learned something from this post which is worthwhile anyway.
Hi YT,
The “flashpoint” for a flammable liquid is the temperature at which it begins to evaporate.
That wouldn’t be altered/improved no matter where you carried it.
I’m guessing here… you might mean that if it’s kept cool, then it wouldn’t evaporate as much, which would then be true. As long as the lid is on the package correctly, the only noticeable thing would be a slight raising of the pressure in the receptacle as more evaporation took place, which goes hand in hand with temperature.
When filling a receptacle with a liquid, it is the consignor’s responsibility to leave the correct amount of free space (ullage) above the liquid in the receptacle to allow for the possibility of product expansion caused by rises of temperature to normally be expected. The ullage figures for Class 3 products vary considerably from product to product.
idrive:
dieseldave:
idrive:
Stephenjp:
You are allowed to carry TC (tranport category) 3. 1000 litres/Kg TC 2. 333 litres/Kg TC 1. 50 litres/Kg of ADR without plates or adr kit
I wasted £500 and a week of my life to believe that this is correct.
Some terrible information on this thread
In this instance, the only thing that’s incorrect in the quote is that the “50” should be 20, so I’d give the benefit of a typo.
Maybe it wasn’t wasted after all
Hi idrive,
To put this in context… on an ADR course, the instructor is required to cover the notion of the limits for the various ADR TCs, but is also required to point out that this is the carrier’s responsibility.
Some drivers then go on to wonder why they’re being told something that’s not down to them to be responsible for.
The answer is that the ADR course syllabus (dictated by the DfT) requires that ADR instructors explain the responsibilities of the other participants in the transport chain, such as… (in no particular order) consignor, carrier, filler, loader, driver, consignee and DGSA.
Knowledge and application of ADR TCs is the responsibility of the carrier, so that’s why I keep saying to employed drivers that there isn’t really very much in ADR that they’re actually responsible for.
They’ll get the message… eventually!! 
Grumpy_old_trucker:
Yorkshire Tramper:
Wheel Nut:
What did your Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor suggest?
It is no longer the drivers responsibility to worry about labels, placards and quantity. for good reason
I would say quite clearly in this case it was exactly that & left for the driver to discover. Someone somewhere has authorised this to go ahead and be loaded there must be a paper trail leading to whom is responsible. Personaly I would have refused to carry it as I do not have an ADR and the truck was not marked up in accordance. It may well have been a case of someone could have labeled the package up incorrectly but would you really want to take the chance of carrying something potentially dangerous? I cannot imagine any haulage contractor allowing this to happen knowingly.
You don’t half talk some guff!
You mention that you’re not ADR trained yet you’re offering advice on a subject that you blatantly know nothing about.
You appear to want to comment on every thread on the forum, are you bored or just a busybody?
Hi GoT,
You might have missed that YT’s opening remark began with “I would say…” which only somebody who’s clearly looking for trouble could construe as “advice,” and then have a snipe at it on that basis. 
So GoT, pray tell… what value did your post bring to this topic?
YT has every right to comment as he did, but your issue with him (or anybody else) is best kept off the forum and resolved by PMs if you wish to pursue it. (BTW, that’s a friendly and polite hint. 
)
As a reasonably competent tanker driver, I used to pre-empt a lot of ADR questions and having met Dave several times I was fairly confident with my answers. However there were major changes in the ADR system and my 1999 Orange books became obsolete. I continued the studying, even joined Dave on a teaching course where he sat in the corner of the room keeping schtum.
I learned that a little knowledge was a dangerous thing and when the DGSA examinations were simplified and the need for a DGSA became a legal requirement. I had to learn to bite my tongue or certainly my typing finger.
I still read the current Orange book although I have not pumped or blown a load for 10 years.
I am typing this in the pub listening to Carlos Santana. I know my place. [emoji23]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wheel Nut:
As a reasonably competent tanker driver
That used to be me ^^^^ although I did once one night years ago blow a load of methanol off at Westland helicopters in Yeovil after convincing the guy that methanol was only flammable when exposed to light! The fact that I couldn’t be arsed to dirty three pipes and tip the residue in the bund coupled to the fact that the pub was open may have shaped my actions
Wheel Nut:
As a reasonably competent tanker driver, I used to pre-empt a lot of ADR questions and having met Dave several times I was fairly confident with my answers. However there were major changes in the ADR system and my 1999 Orange books became obsolete. I continued the studying, even joined Dave on a teaching course where he sat in the corner of the room keeping schtum.
I learned that a little knowledge was a dangerous thing and when the DGSA examinations were simplified and the need for a DGSA became a legal requirement. I had to learn to bite my tongue or certainly my typing finger.
I still read the current Orange book although I have not pumped or blown a load for 10 years.
I am typing this in the pub listening to Carlos Santana. I know my place. [emoji23]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Summer music!
Good choice, and even I am allowed an opinion on that.
Stephenjp:
As I’m an ADR driver with packages, if I’m wrong then so is the literature and training given, wrong!!!
Hi Stephenjp,
You may have a fair point there, but what literature did you receive?
I make no assumptions, so is it possible that the instructor was correct and that you may have misremembered?
It is a possibility that the instructor was incorrect though, because I have encountered some ‘wafflers.’
Stephenjp:
Edit: It appears 50 for TC 1 is supposed to be 20 litres/kg as stated above, 50 is the multiplier, TC 1 is not something we normally carry!
Whether you carry TC 1 ‘stuff’ isn’t important right now.
Yes, you’re correct that the ADR TC limit for TC 1 is 20Kg/L.
The “50” is only a multiplier to be used when THE CARRIER calculates whether a vehicle load consisting of dangerous goods that are in different ADR TCs is subject to full ADR rules, or is to be carried by use of the exemption limits.
The relevant multiplier figure for TC 2 dangerous goods (333Kg/L limit) would be to multiply the total of those dangerous goods in a mixed ADR TC load by 3.
However, the OP’s question appeared to me to be concerned with a single substance, so any mention of multipliers is most probably nothing to do with the point at hand.
