ADR needed?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Evening all apologies if this has been answered before but am looking for answers from our resident DGSA’s please.
Is an ADR required to transport roro bins loaded with asbestos? I asked the transport manager when i was given the collection and told not needed, however the regular driver to the asbestos disposal site has an ADR?? Am i being told fairy tales or is it because he takes a trailer with him so has exceeded a certain quantity??
[emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

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2

Hi,

It depends. there are two types of asbestos under ADR, UN2212 and UN2590.

If you are carrying less than 333 kg of UN2212 or 1000 kg of UN2590 (and no other dangerous goods) then ADR will not apply unde the load exemption.

However there is also the following special provision 168 which applies to both UN numbers.

“Asbestos which is immersed or fixed in a natural or artificial binder (such as cement, plastics,
asphalt, resins or mineral ore) in such a way that no escape of hazardous quantities of respirable
asbestos fibres can occur during carriage is not subject to the requirements of ADR.
Manufactured articles containing asbestos and not meeting this provision are nevertheless not
subject to the requirements of ADR when packed so that no escape of hazardous quantities of
respirable asbestos fibres can occur during carriage.”

So, for example cement bonded asbestos sheets, wrapped in 1000 gauge plastic does not come under ADR in my opinion.

3

Is this transport manager who gave you the advice a qualified TM with his name on the O-licence, or someone using TM as a job title? I suspect the latter; if it’s the former then he’s taking a bit of a risk, not least of all by you not having any training or solid information to cover your ■■■■ if you get stopped.

As already indicated by DGSA2 a lot depends on the amount you’re carrying, and the form in which is it carried. If it is in an exempt form this TM should be able to give you chapter and verse on the how and why it is exempt.

If it’s not in an exempt form, I doubt you’ll be carrying the relatively small amounts to take advantage of the threshold level caveats if you’re carrying it ro-ro style - presumably in a sheeted 40 yard skip or container.

Even if you were transporting under the “small loads” option, you’d still need: basic hazardous goods awareness training, and a 2kg fire extinguisher, and for the goods to be “properly stowed” which if they were in a skip with other waste products, they would not be.

IMO the really important thing I take from your post is: WHERE is it being tipped and what does your paperwork say?
All asbestos waste is defined as hazardous waste
hse.gov.uk/cdg/commonproblems/asbestos.htm

As such it must only be disposed of at a correctly licenced site. If you are carrying exempt material, I would expect there to be a waste transfer note stating you are carrying asbestos but in form XYZ which as such is ADR/CDG exempt.

I’ve researched this previously as I have a DGSA client who transports asbestos - it is collected and double-bagged, placed into a lockable skip/container containing only bagged-asbestos and transported as “packages” by fully qualified ADR drivers, to a known correctly licenced site.

My client was given the job of transporting some “fibrous”, but “encapsulated” asbestos material. Some people may argue that if the waste is encapsulated in a binder, it will prevent the escape of asbestos fibres, and it could be transported without the CDG Regulations applying. However, as it says in the HSE information sheets, “If in doubt, always treat the waste as ‘Hazardous’ or ‘Special’ . See leaflet EM9
hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/index.htm

4

Thank you for your replies and the usefull info contained within. Our TM is a transport cpc holder as the certificate is on the wall. I was given a consignment note but can’t remember what was on it now but if this happens again I will reference your information. The roro bins are enclosed and locked so don’t touch or go near the contents. It comes back to our yard and is stored in a separate compound and then taken onward to a specialist facility by the ADR driver, ( hence my question). Thanks again for the info much appreciated [emoji106]

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5

No problem and thank you for your thanks.

OP, if you are stopped by any official body just say “I was told it was all transported under Special Provision 168” and give the official body the name of your TM.

Under Hazardous Waste Regulations Asbestos needs to be transported to a waste site licensed to accept Asbestos, not always a site authorised to dispose of asbestos. For example a Waste Transfer Station is allowed [if the permit allows] to accept asbestos but only an authorised disposal site is allowed to accept it for disposal. That made it clear as mud. If it is a Waste Transfer Station then on your Hazardous Waste Consignment Note then when signed in Section E it should have code D15. If a disposal site then it should have code D5.

So, practical example: An Asbestos removal firm can transport asbestos to a Waste Transfer Station who has a dedicated skip for asbestos. They (Asbestos removal firm) would be well advised to have a Waste Carriers License and transport it under EWC 17 06 05 so they could claim it was transported under SP 168, not under EWC 17 06 01 as that wpuld get murky.

6

ajc263:
Evening all apologies if this has been answered before but am looking for answers from our resident DGSA’s please.
Is an ADR required to transport roro bins loaded with asbestos? I asked the transport manager when i was given the collection and told not needed, however the regular driver to the asbestos disposal site has an ADR?? Am i being told fairy tales or is it because he takes a trailer with him so has exceeded a certain quantity??
[emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

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Depends on type and quantity. I used to work in the removal of that stuff in a previous life. The class 2 skip wagon that came on one occasion take away some stuff was the enclosed type, but no hazmat labels were on it. The stuff we were getting rid of was only ‘white’ (the mildest) not ‘brown’ or ‘blue’ (the worst). In fact as long as the stuff was red and then clear bagged I don’t recall seeing any ADR placards on the enclosed walk-in skips we used. Only on one or two occasions did we ever work with ‘brown’ aesbestos.

7

ajc263:
Evening all apologies if this has been answered before but am looking for answers from our resident DGSA’s please.
Is an ADR required to transport roro bins loaded with asbestos? I asked the transport manager when i was given the collection and told not needed, however the regular driver to the asbestos disposal site has an ADR?? Am i being told fairy tales or is it because he takes a trailer with him so has exceeded a certain quantity??
[emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

Hi ajc263,

My first observation is that your TM should have referred to your company’s (properly qualified) DGSA, but maybe he did, then actually gave you the correct answer in the first place. However, nobody knows this one way or the other because we lack some important details.

So to answer your question, the rules for carrying asbestos will depend on which type of asbestos is to be carried.

As correctly mentioned above, the kind of asbestos known as ‘cement bonded’ isn’t subject to ADR. This is due to an ADR Special Provision (SP) called SP168, which applies to both of the UN numbers below.

The two kinds of asbestos that are subject to ADR are called: Amphibole ( = blue or brown asbestos) and Chrysotile ( = white asbestos).

NOTE:
:bulb: I’m leaving out all mention of provisions contained in the Waste Regs, because your question related to ADR only.

For ADR purposes, the requirements are as follows…

ADR P002 and PP37 both apply to the carriage of UN 2212 Chrysotile and UN 2590 Amphibole by Road, which means that "for UN numbers 2212 and 2590, bags [ = sacks] are permitted. [Asbestos is normally carried in strong plastic bags, UN ADR package code = 5H4.]

All bags of any type shall be carried in closed vehicles or containers or be placed in closed rigid overpacks."

When correctly written on an ADR Transport Document [ = delivery note] the entry should look like this:

UN 2212 WASTE ASBESTOS, AMPHIBOLE, (XXXX) 9, PGII

ADR SP 274 applies to UN 2212, so…
In place of the XXXX, one of the following words must be inserted within the brackets: amosite, tremolite, actinolite, anthophyllite or crocidolite.

OR

UN 2590 WASTE ASBESTOS, CHRYSOTILE, 9, PGIII
(There’s only this one kind, so no need for SP 274.)

The packages carriage partial exemption (ADR 1.1.3.6) applies… the one x 2kg fire extinguisher and driver awareness training as mentioned by Zac. The ADR awareness training requirement also applies to those in office roles, so that would include your boss. Such training must be documented even though an ADR Card isn’t required.

This label and the UN Number (including the letters ‘UN’) is required on all of the packages:

9.gif

For UN 2212, the partial exemption applies if the amount carried is 333Kg or less.

For UN 2590, the partial exemption applies if the amount carried is 1,000Kg or less.

If either figure is exceeded, then all applicable provisions of ADR apply in full, so then you’d need an ADR Card valid for at least ‘packages’ and UN Class 9, an ADR orange plate on the front and rear of your vehicle, a second fire extinguisher, ADR Instructions In Writing (IIW) as well as all of the kit and equipment specified on the IIW. At the same time, the company is required to appoint a properly qualified DGSA (ADR 1.8.3.1) who is capable of carrying out the responsibilities and duties of a DGSA (ADR 1.8.3.3)

I hope this helps. :smiley:

8

Very helpful thak you, my head is now officially swamped! Lol. I will keep all the info provided to hand in case this situation happens again. Thanks all [emoji106]

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9

One last little thing, and this is only a major worry for the TM not for the driver, if a TM mistakenly believes a consignment is exempt when it is not (ie exceeding the threshold levels) then the company will be committing one of the TCs Seven Deadly Sins - transporting dangerous goods but failing to properly identify them as such. This is typically a guaranteed PI, so he/she better be sure they’re accurate if they feel they’re entitled to use an exemption.

10

ajc263:
Very helpful thak you, my head is now officially swamped! Lol. I will keep all the info provided to hand in case this situation happens again. Thanks all [emoji106]

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Hi ajc263,

Zac has beaten me to it again… :smiley:

I’ll just add that it is a matter for the Carrier ( = your boss, unless you own the vehicle!) to decide whether and to what extent the ADR Regs apply to any given ADR job he gives you to do. [ADR 1.4.2.2.1(a)]

Rest easy mate, cos this really isn’t your problem. :wink:

:bulb: TCs don’t like those TMs who use a search engine instead of a DGSA.

11

Not my vehicle but still want to be sure as a mater of trying to do the job well that I’m not doing somthing i shouldn’t be doing or being told the fleetwood mac! ( little lies). Its still my license and livelihood at the end of the day. Cheers all again as always its good that there are a few of us about willing to helo each other out. [emoji106]

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12

ajc263:
… Its still my license and livelihood at the end of the day…

Did you see the replies in which both Zac and I both said it’s not your problem? :smiley:

I’ve been a DGSA continuously for 19 years, so I can remember when it WAS the driver’s responsibility, but that ended on 09/05/2004, so whoever you’re believing when you say “it’s my licence” etc is somewhat out of touch because your licence isn’t at risk in the scenario you described.

I even gave you the ADR legal reference for what I’d said, which you can check with your company’s DGSA.

We’re only trying to reassure you that you’ve got nothing to worry about in the scenario you described, but if you choose not to believe our answers, well… I’m not sure what else I can say. :confused:

13

dieseldave:

ajc263:
… Its still my license and livelihood at the end of the day…

Did you see the replies in which both Zac and I both said it’s not your problem? :smiley:

I’ve been a DGSA continuously for 19 years, so I can remember when it WAS the driver’s responsibility, but that ended on 09/05/2004, so whoever you’re believing when you say “it’s my licence” etc is somewhat out of touch because your licence isn’t at risk in the scenario you described.

I even gave you the ADR legal reference for what I’d said, which you can check with your company’s DGSA.

We’re only trying to reassure you that you’ve got nothing to worry about in the scenario you described, but if you choose not to believe our answers, well… I’m not sure what else I can say. :confused:

Thirded, not your problem OP. From my POV just trying to educate.

14

Hello all, just to clarify, I don’t doubt what any of you have said, the expertise and experience of others is one of the great things of this forum What i meant by my comments is that in my career (20yrs) so far I’ve had a good reputation with those I’ve worked for or encountered by trying to do the job as professionally as possible and don’t wish to tarnish what i hope is a good reputation and ability to be considered for employment due to the old addage of ni smoke without fire! Again thank you all for your info and comments they are very much appreciated and taken on board. [emoji106]

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15

ajc263:
Hello all, just to clarify, I don’t doubt what any of you have said, the expertise and experience of others is one of the great things of this forum What i meant by my comments is that in my career (20yrs) so far I’ve had a good reputation with those I’ve worked for or encountered by trying to do the job as professionally as possible and don’t wish to tarnish what i hope is a good reputation and ability to be considered for employment due to the old addage of ni smoke without fire! Again thank you all for your info and comments they are very much appreciated and taken on board. [emoji106]

Hi ajc263,

Thanks for the clarification. :smiley:

For a while there were three DGSAs all scratching their heads. :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing:

16

Not my intention at all [emoji1787][emoji38][emoji16]

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