I’ve been given a reload in Europe that’s corrosive, as far as I knew hazardous loads in Europe for tankers have to run on kemler boards and not the big labels that we can use in England. Anyone that can show something official that says either I’m wrong or he’s wrong would be greatly appreciated before I get into an argument with the planner.
Rob_efc:
I’ve been given a reload in Europe that’s corrosive, as far as I knew hazardous loads in Europe for tankers have to run on kemler boards and not the big labels that we can use in England. Anyone that can show something official that says either I’m wrong or he’s wrong would be greatly appreciated before I get into an argument with the planner.
Hi Rob_efc,
On the info you’ve given, you are correct, your planner is wrong.
The reference that you’ve asked for is extremely long, tedious and legalistic, so I’d advise your planner to contact your company’s DGSA.
Until he/she does that, this will have to do…
CDG 2009 (as amended) Reg6. and Schedule 1 requires the ‘big boards’ that you’ve mentioned (They’re called ‘Hazard Warning Panels’), but goes on to say that this applies to national carriage. (National carriage is defined in Reg2. as “Carriage that includes carriage in Great Britain and does not include carriage outside the United Kingdom.”)
Given that your planned journey isn’t national carriage, it follows that ADR must be followed (ADR governs international carriage.)
ADR section 5.3.2 deals with what you’re calling Kemler plates, so the whole of the road part of your journey would be under this requirement, right up to and including delivery right to the delivery point, even it’s in John 'O Groats.
There’s no grey area here, it’s one or the other, but cannot be a mix-and-match.
Given that you’ve said that the substance to be carried is a corrosive (you gave no other info) then I can tell you that the figures in the top part of the ‘Kemler’ plates will most probably be either 80 or 88. The lower half will have the relevant four-digit UN number for the stuff to be carried.
As a minimum, you’ll need a Kemler plate on the front AND the rear of your vehicle, plus three Class 8 placards (250mm X 250mm) one for each side, plus one for the rear.
If you’re marked as above, then additionally for sea transport (under IMDG,) you’ll need the name of the substance written on the two sides of your vehicle. (In either English OR French OR German.)
The planner (very) obviously hasn’t had the legally required ADR awareness training that makes him/her fit for purpose, so my advice to him/her is that it’s far more important that they should get that sorted, rather than be bothering you with their incorrect theory. 
I make it Rob 1 v 0 Planner, because you had this absolutely spot-on. 
dieseldave:
Rob_efc:
I’ve been given a reload in Europe that’s corrosive, as far as I knew hazardous loads in Europe for tankers have to run on kemler boards and not the big labels that we can use in England. Anyone that can show something official that says either I’m wrong or he’s wrong would be greatly appreciated before I get into an argument with the planner.Hi Rob_efc,
On the info you’ve given, you are correct, your planner is wrong.
The reference that you’ve asked for is extremely long, tedious and legalistic, so I’d advise your planner to contact your company’s DGSA.
Until he/she does that, this will have to do…
CDG 2009 (as amended) Reg6. and Schedule 1 requires the ‘big boards’ that you’ve mentioned (They’re called ‘Hazard Warning Panels’), but goes on to say that this applies to national carriage. (National carriage is defined in Reg2. as “Carriage that includes carriage in Great Britain and does not include carriage outside the United Kingdom.”)
Given that your planned journey isn’t national carriage, it follows that ADR must be followed (ADR governs international carriage.)
ADR section 5.3.2 deals with what you’re calling Kemler plates, so the whole of the road part of your journey would be under this requirement, right up to and including delivery right to the delivery point, even it’s in John 'O Groats.
There’s no grey area here, it’s one or the other, but cannot be a mix-and-match.
Given that you’ve said that the substance to be carried is a corrosive (you gave no other info) then I can tell you that the figures in the top part of the ‘Kemler’ plates will most probably be either 80 or 88. The lower half will have the relevant four-digit UN number for the stuff to be carried.
As a minimum, you’ll need a Kemler plate on the front AND the rear of your vehicle, plus three Class 8 placards (250mm X 250mm) one for each side, plus one for the rear.
If you’re marked as above, then additionally for sea transport (under IMDG,) you’ll need the name of the substance written on the two sides of your vehicle. (In either English OR French OR German.)
The planner (very) obviously hasn’t had the legally required ADR awareness training that makes him/her fit for purpose, so my advice to him/her is that it’s far more important that they should get that sorted, rather than be bothering you with their incorrect theory.
I make it Rob 1 v 0 Planner, because you had this absolutely spot-on.
Hi Dave,
I’m made up you appeared as I you always do with adr questions. Believe it or not the 2 people in the office have spoken to our dgsa who has said that it’s legal for me to run on the big labels. I just need to get a black marker and change the 2x that he wrote above the un number to 80. I’m sure that won’t attract much attention from the authorities over here. You probably know my company and our dgsa as they are both in Ellesmere Port. Would rather not put company names on here but I’m waiting for a call back from the dgsa so I can here it from his mouth and then when ■■■■ hits the fan which it probably will knowing my luck I know who to point the authorities at cause I will not be paying a penny towards any fines and really don’t care how long I get parked up for. I have plenty of food.
Thanks for your input.
Rob_efc:
Hi Dave,I’m made up you appeared as I you always do with adr questions. Believe it or not the 2 people in the office have spoken to our dgsa who has said that it’s legal for me to run on the big labels. I just need to get a black marker and change the 2x that he wrote above the un number to 80. I’m sure that won’t attract much attention from the authorities over here. You probably know my company and our dgsa as they are both in Ellesmere Port. Would rather not put company names on here but I’m waiting for a call back from the dgsa so I can here it from his mouth and then when [zb] hits the fan which it probably will knowing my luck I know who to point the authorities at cause I will not be paying a penny towards any fines and really don’t care how long I get parked up for. I have plenty of food.
Thanks for your input.
Hi Rob,
I’m afraid it’ll take a lot more than a black marker to fix this. 
Our UK hazard warning panels are 700mm X 400mm and include a phone number.
Also included within our hazard warning panels is a 200mm X 200mm ‘British’ placard, which is too saml for ADR, but perfectly acceptable in the UK.
British Regs have to be forgotten and left in Britain for this, and that’s why I said there’s no mix-and-match.
The ADR (‘Kemler’) plates are 400mm X 300mm, and NO phone number. (You will need 2 of these.)
ADR placards are 250mm X 250mm (You will need 3 of these.)
In the way that you won’t put the company name (I don’t blame you for that, it’s quite understandable) then I won’t put what I think of your DGSA’s advice, apart from advising him/her to put his/her shovel down and stop digging the hole he or she has already fallen into, and suggest that he/she has another look at this.
A further clue… I’ve already given the UK definition of national carriage, and where it’s to be found in CDG 2009.
The next clue is that I suggest that the DGSA reads the title of the ADR book (it’s in big writing on the cover ) where it very clearly says the word “International.”
I’m sorry to be so blunt Rob, but there’s not really any other way to say it.
After speaking to the dgsa it appears they haven’t told him everything. I’ve told him what I have and said pretty much the same thing as you. The stuff I have isn’t correct.
Rob_efc:
After speaking to the dgsa it appears they haven’t told him everything. I’ve told him what I have and said pretty much the same thing as you. The stuff I have isn’t correct.
Hi Rob,
I sincerely hope that your DGSA agrees with our conversation so far, but if not, then take plenty of food with you, because you’ll come to the attention of the first police person you encounter once you get reloaded. Guaranteed.
Now that the full picture is known, the DGSA should explain things to your planner.
I’m still here if you need me.
With the mention of court deposit fines in Europe, of which can be contested at a later date, the sums can be eye watering, from 60 Euros to 20,000 Euros.
The employers can wire the funds to the authority by Western Union .
For something that was not my fault, I sat parked for seven days after the Basque police stopped me for 2000 Euros fine .
Good food in the Msa restaurant, got the bus to San Sebastian .
The Basque stopped a Portuguese hauiler for his rear orange reflective trailer markings not been bright orange enough .
Hot countries get sun fading .
I saw him hand over two handfuls of cash .
Diesel is spot on with the advice and the same for Kennedy tunnel advice .