ADR, Animals, and clampers

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

  1. I’ve heard that it is an offence to clamp a vehicle carrying livestock, or if it’s carrying hazardous,
    Is this right or is it a myth.

  2. if someone is caught transporting a full load of flamable goods that come under ADR rules. What sort of sentence would be expected.

2

limeyphil:

  1. I’ve heard that it is an offence to clamp a vehicle carrying livestock, or if it’s carrying hazardous,
    Is this right or is it a myth.

I’d like to know that too :wink:

are there some clampers guidelines anywhere online ?

3

consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php … ping_Guide

consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo … guide.html

have a look at these. doesnt say anything about livestock or carrying hazardous items but then again it is mostly about cars,

it might be worth getting some legal advice about this, :wink:

also to clarify, by carrying livestock i guess it doesnt include having the dog in the cab with you? :laughing: :laughing:

4

only exemptions HERE are Emergency vehicles and Blue Badges

so it’s probably a myth :wink:

5

that’s what i was thinking but then again like i said, it goes on about cars more than anything, so you never know.

i will make some enquiries with the coppers at work tomorrow (MOD Police) i’m guessing they might know, but then they might not know. i will let you all know

6

Im pretty sure its actually not illegal to remove a clamp but only illegal if you damage it.

Also you can move the vehicle if you dont damage the clamp I.E. tag axle or a full lift of a vehicle .

7

limeyphil:

  1. I’ve heard that it is an offence to clamp a vehicle carrying livestock, or if it’s carrying hazardous,
    Is this right or is it a myth.

Hi limeyphil, there’s nothing in ADR that says a vehicle can’t be clamped, so if it’s true, it’ll be in some other Regs.

limeyphil:
2) if someone is caught transporting a full load of flamable goods that come under ADR rules. What sort of sentence would be expected.

Sorry to be a pain Phil, but I’ll need more info before I can give you a good answer…

  1. UN number, Proper Shipping Name, Class and Packing Group
  2. Type and number of packages
  3. Description of marks / labels on the packages
  4. Total amount (Ltrs / Kgs) loaded on the vehicle
  5. Was the driver told that the load wasn’t subject to ADR when he/she loaded it?
    Has the driver received a summons?

Even the consignor can be wrong about whether a load is subject to Regs, then there’s the possibility that the driver might have been misled.

If you get me the above info, I might be able to stop the fat lady from even warming up. :grimacing:

8

limeyphil:
2) if someone is caught transporting a full load of flamable goods that come under ADR rules. What sort of sentence would be expected.

Sorry to be a pain Phil, but I’ll need more info before I can give you a good answer…

  1. UN number, Proper Shipping Name, Class and Packing Group
  2. Type and number of packages
  3. Description of marks / labels on the packages
  4. Total amount (Ltrs / Kgs) loaded on the vehicle
  5. Was the driver told that the load wasn’t subject to ADR when he/she loaded it?
    Has the driver received a summons?

Even the consignor can be wrong about whether a load is subject to Regs, then there’s the possibility that the driver might have been misled.

If you get me the above info, I might be able to stop the fat lady from even warming up. :grimacing:
[/quote]

Class 2 and Class 8.
Driver hooked up to trailer, Driver says What’s this, “oh it’s your hazardous paperwork”
Driver goes to ferry, He’s parked well away from anyone else, he’s put on the boat on the top deck right at the back, chained down, checked, then checked again, then the driver is escorted away to be shaw he dosn’t sleep in the cab.
So i guess it came under regs. :wink:

But is it a case of the police calling you a bad toad, or is it a case of 5 years in the nick with regular ■■■■ probing?

9

Dave. I think there was something in Petrolem Regs about parking and disabling vehicles, although I havent found it.

Certainly in most chemical plants and refineries you had to leave the ignition keys in the ignition.

Conoco in Killingholme were sticklers for this.

Things may have changed since the Al-Quaeda agency started supplying tanker drivers

10

limeyphil:

dieseldave:

limeyphil:
2) if someone is caught transporting a full load of flamable goods that come under ADR rules. What sort of sentence would be expected.

Sorry to be a pain Phil, but I’ll need more info before I can give you a good answer…

  1. UN number, Proper Shipping Name, Class and Packing Group
  2. Type and number of packages
  3. Description of marks / labels on the packages
  4. Total amount (Ltrs / Kgs) loaded on the vehicle
  5. Was the driver told that the load wasn’t subject to ADR when he/she loaded it?
    Has the driver received a summons?

Even the consignor can be wrong about whether a load is subject to Regs, then there’s the possibility that the driver might have been misled.

If you get me the above info, I might be able to stop the fat lady from even warming up. :grimacing:

Class 2 and Class 8.
Driver hooked up to trailer, Driver says What’s this, “oh it’s your hazardous paperwork”
Driver goes to ferry, He’s parked well away from anyone else, he’s put on the boat on the top deck right at the back, chained down, checked, then checked again, then the driver is escorted away to be shaw he dosn’t sleep in the cab.
So i guess it came under regs. :wink:

But is it a case of the police calling you a bad toad, or is it a case of 5 years in the nick with regular ■■■■ probing?

Hi limeyphil, sorry mate but your post is a little unclear to me. :frowning:

I’ll try to explain…

You mentioned ADR, but do you realise that ADR is ONLY valid by road■■?
Do you realise that dangerous goods carried by sea comes under a completly DIFFERENT set of Regs called IMDG■■?

It’s perfectly possible that the load didn’t come under ADR, but did come under IMDG Regs for the time spent on the ferry.

All you’ve told me so far is which UN classes are involved, but you’ve said nothing about the questions I asked above.

IIRC, drivers aren’t allowed to stay in their cabs during a ferry crossing regardless of whether they’re carrying dangerous goods or not, so the fact that the driver was led away doesn’t mean anything at this stage.

Since you’ve said that the vehicle was put on the top deck, it seems the dangerous goods were correctly declared to the ferry company. Being told to park in such a position is possibly due to the restrictions in IMDG, which are specific to the dangerous goods being carried on the vehicle. IMDG is very specific about where certain types of dangerous goods may be placed on a ship.

Some goods may only be carried on an open deck, and are therefore forbidden from being carried in an enclosed hold or vehicle deck. That’s due to the nature of the danger as written in the IMDG Regs and only relates to carriage by ship/ferry.

Was the driver actually charged with any offence?

Sorry mate, but nobody on this earth can give you any proper answers until you provide the info I’ve asked for… :confused:

11

Wheel Nut:
Dave. I think there was something in Petrolem Regs about parking and disabling vehicles, although I havent found it.

Hi Malc, The old ‘Pet Regs’ have been largely overtaken since about 2005 IIRC.
However, the fuel and gas industries still has their own ACOPs, which exceed the minimum legal requirements.

Wheel Nut:
Certainly in most chemical plants and refineries you had to leave the ignition keys in the ignition.

Conoco in Killingholme were sticklers for this.

Yes, that’s my memory of things too.
I can’t remember anywhere I went to that took your keys off you, because there always was the possibility that the vehicle might have needed to be moved urgently due to an incident.

Wheel Nut:
Things may have changed since the Al-Quaeda agency started supplying tanker drivers

:open_mouth: Things certainly have changed in that area. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
There’s now the concept of ‘High Consequence Dangerous Goods’ (HCDG) and there is a very stringent security regime in place for any consignor/carrier who sends/transports HCDGs.
HCDGs are mentioned in both CDG 2007 and ADR.

12

Dieseldave.

You are reading into this far too much.
The load was under ADR.
I know we should’nt sleep in our cabs on the boat, But we do and they know we do, But on this occasion, They made sure the driver wasn’t with the vehicle.

All i need to know is how serious do the police, vosa, and courts take it when someone carries ADR loads when he or she dosn’t have an ADR ticket.
Is it a slapped wrist or a long stretch?

13

Clampers are hazardous!!

14

limeyphil:

  1. I’ve heard that it is an offence to clamp a vehicle carrying livestock, or if it’s carrying hazardous,
    Is this right or is it a myth.

  2. if someone is caught transporting a full load of flamable goods that come under ADR rules. What sort of sentence would be expected.

kick in the bollox if they clamped my tanker :laughing:(yeah i know i said id never go back on tankers) :laughing:needs must :laughing:

15

Koop:
Clampers are hazardous!!

does it matter who throws the rocks it zbing hurts getting one on the napper i know :laughing:

16

Going back to the original question, pertaining to Livestock, it does raise questions as to who is in ‘control’ of the vehicle and, therefore, the welfare of the animals.

I’ll readily admit that my only knowledge on this subject is a requirement that they be ‘watered’.

Which then begs the question as to what other requirements relate to animals being transported and the manner in which ‘clamping’ prevents those conditions being fulfilled or, indeed, transfers those responsibilities to the company carrying out the ‘clamping’.

I’d be really interested to know.

Denis! Get your arse in here. :laughing:

17

Krankee:
Going back to the original question, pertaining to Livestock, it does raise questions as to who is in ‘control’ of the vehicle and, therefore, the welfare of the animals.

I’ll readily admit that my only knowledge on this subject is a requirement that they be ‘watered’.

Which then begs the question as to what other requirements relate to animals being transported and the manner in which ‘clamping’ prevents those conditions being fulfilled or, indeed, transfers those responsibilities to the company carrying out the ‘clamping’.

I’d be really interested to know.

Denis! Get your arse in here. :laughing:

generally the animals welfare is the drivers responsibility :wink:

basic spec vehicles are only authorised for journeys expected to last up to 8 hours - Cattle and Sheep have to be offered water after 14 hours, Horses and Pigs need water after 8 hours,

If a basic vehicle was clamped it could easily make the journey last longer than these times and indeed cause welfare problems. In those circumstances it would be possible to phone Animal Health, and sit back to watch the fun :wink:

it probably needs a test case to clarify it :wink: however as the guidance on EU reg No 1/2005 says

The Regulation imposes a statutory obligation that anyone engaged in the
handling and transport of animals must do so in a way that does not or is not
likely to cause injury or undue suffering to them. Transport, handling, loading
and unloading may be stressful to some animals as a result of unaccustomed
and unfamiliar surroundings. It is important, therefore, that everyone involved in
these operations is aware of the correct action to take to minimise adverse
effects in handling and transport and of the effects on the animals if these
procedures are not followed properly.

it could be argued that parking in a clamping area is likely to cause undue suffering to the animals by extending the journey time - so it still could be the drivers fault