abs warning

[cieranc]

hoopie:
thanks for all replies i am going to check at unit plug as there should be power at all ports if no power at one then broken wire thanks to all

No mate, pins 1,2 and 5 should be live (24+ volts), pins 3 and 4 should be good earths.

switchlogic:
My god your a bunch of reckless lunatics telling him to drive without ABS. No thought to safety or anything. Shocking. It’s this attitude that is the reason I don’t post on here much anymore…

Trouble with internet forums is, you can’t tell wether someone is being ironic/facetious or not.
Are you joking Mr Logic, or was this comment completely straight faced?

Said from the very off, if there’s no trailer brakes, it’s not an ABS electrical fault, but a fault with the air system.
Seems the OP is still looking for an electrical fault though.

[switchlogic]

It was indeed a joke. I’m actually not a fan of ABS.

[sam_millar]

It doesn’t work massively well anyway on HGVs, any time I’ve had to bang on the anchors you kind of lock up every couple of seconds anyway and that’s without faults… or so it feels like that anyway

[cieranc]

switchlogic:
It was indeed a joke. I’m actually not a fan of ABS.

Cool runnings Mr Logic, now I get ya

Hoopie, are you an O/D?
Nearly all trailers you can get blink codes from the ecu, if you know how, and they’re suprisingly accurate.
I can pm you with more info if you wish?

[wheel_nut]

cieranc:

switchlogic:
It was indeed a joke. I’m actually not a fan of ABS.

Cool runnings Mr Logic, now I get ya

Hoopie, are you an O/D?
Nearly all trailers you can get blink codes from the ecu, if you know how, and they’re suprisingly accurate.
I can pm you with more info if you wish?

I am of the same opinion as Cieranc on ABS and EBS. The brakes are mechanical and pneumatic, but so many companies expect you to stop and report an orange warning lamp and VOSA apparently are being over the top over it

[bigvern1]

Remember what happened to me last time I ignored an ABS light?

[cieranc]

Yes. A catastrophic mechanical failure, I seem to remember.

In your case, the ABS light came on because the ABS sensor wasn’t getting a signal.
It weren’t getting a signal because the gap between the sensor and the exciter ring was too large.
About 8 feet too large.

Though I would have expected the clunking, grinding, screeching noises and the burning brake smell, or maybe even the copious amounts of glitter on the hub to have given away some indication that it wasn’t simply a bad ABS sensor putting the light on

Just taking the ■■■■ a bit mate

[8_legger]

cieranc:
Your brake system is all mechanical.
The ABS/EBS is electrical.
If the trailer isn’t braking at all, there’s a serious fault with the mechanical air brake system, not the electrical ABS system.
If the ABS/EBS fails, you should still have normal braking, just the ABS won’t work if you anchor up.

Thats is not true at all, If an EBS unit looses power the brakes will only work on the front axle (well on a DAF anyway). Its totally ridiculous, we nor any of the fitters we know could believe it when it happened to us. We thought it could only be a mechanical problem so checked all the lines, valves etc. but after a lot of head scratching we found that the was a power supply fault to the EBS unit in the passenger foot well, once that was sorted the brakes started working correctly again and we’ve not had any problems since.

As I said its a ridiculous design, the people who thought it would be a good idea should be shot. Just think of the children!

[pavaroti]

I’ve had an abs warning light on my actros for 10 months at least im sure if i changed over the suzi it would be fine.

If it’s a daf i thought an abs warning light is compulsary.

[wheel_nut]

I am still under the impression that EBS and ABS are a safety feature but are not the main force of braking, only a control module.

VOSA agree with me and they suggest this:

Where a braking system is primarily operated by air, although incorporating an electronic control system e.g. ABS or EBS, the system is considered to be an Air system.

A hydraulic system is one that is primarily hydraulic and may be air or vacuum assisted.

An electric brake is one where the foundation brake is operated solely by electrical energy.

[8_legger]

Wheel Nut:
I am still under the impression that EBS and ABS are a safety feature but are not the main force of braking, only a control module.

VOSA agree with me and they suggest this:

Where a braking system is primarily operated by air, although incorporating an electronic control system e.g. ABS or EBS, the system is considered to be an Air system.

A hydraulic system is one that is primarily hydraulic and may be air or vacuum assisted.

An electric brake is one where the foundation brake is operated solely by electrical energy.

I’ll put a pint on the if the EBS module looses power you’ll lose all your brakes apart from the front axle, I know know about DAF CF’s so wouldn’t like to comment on others.

ABS warnings however do not affect the brakes, it’s just the EBS, as I said before no one could believe that it would be such a ridiculous design. Insanity in my opinion.

[cieranc]

I can’t think off the top of my head what system CF’s use (wabco, knorr bremske, haldex + maybe midland grau are the only ones really in use these days), but when I did my Haldex factory course, this was discussed. They said that in the event of any electrical failure or malfunction, the system would ‘fail safe’ and operate as a pure mechanical/air system, as this was a mandatory requirement for type approval purposes.

So… if the EBS ECU lost it’s power and the brakes failed to work, then it ain’t meeting the conditions of it’s type approval.
On the most part this is neither here nor there, but in the event of a fatal accident, if the inquest finds that them brakes not working contributed to the fatality, then someone somewhere will be finding out exactly how the corporate manslaughter laws work

[8_legger]

cieranc:
I can’t think off the top of my head what system CF’s use (wabco, knorr bremske, haldex + maybe midland grau are the only ones really in use these days), but when I did my Haldex factory course, this was discussed. They said that in the event of any electrical failure or malfunction, the system would ‘fail safe’ and operate as a pure mechanical/air system, as this was a mandatory requirement for type approval purposes.

Its a wabco system in it. We thought that should be the a fail safe but after talking to a DAF fitter he told us that’s not the case its just brakes on the first axle. Our drivers have been told to pull over immediately if the EBS warning pops up.

[cieranc]

Aye, that’s a serious flaw if that’s the case, not come across it myself but will deffo keep it in mind.

Surely only braking the front axle of an artic is just tempting a jack-knife?

[hoopie]

it was a broken wire in the loom checked all the pins at rear ove cab test lamp all ok barr one cut loom found brocken wire fixed all ok now thanks to all

[zetorpilot]

Here, in the winter, with all the snow buildup that happens everywhere on the chassis after a few kms, ABS lights coming on is really common. It’s good to know that the ABS isn’t functioning, but a few years back wagons didn’t have ABS anyway. When I started driving my wagon didn’t have any working load sensing system and ABS hadn’t been dreamt of. In any case it would be bad driving to rely on the ABS when judging braking distances, after all these computery things can fail at any time but the underlying braking system is very reliable.

[waynedl]

Wheel Nut:
I am still under the impression that EBS and ABS are a safety feature but are not the main force of braking, only a control module.

VOSA agree with me and they suggest this:

Where a braking system is primarily operated by air, although incorporating an electronic control system e.g. ABS or EBS, the system is considered to be an Air system.

A hydraulic system is one that is primarily hydraulic and may be air or vacuum assisted.

An electric brake is one where the foundation brake is operated solely by electrical energy.

Kind of but no, as I (wrongly) put on another thread, modern brakes work much better and quicker because they’re actually electrical valves, so when you brake it sends an electrical signal to activate the brakes, and can also turn 1 brake on or off, so when locking, it won’t release all brakes, only the locked one(s).

BUT…

cieranc:
I can’t think off the top of my head what system CF’s use (wabco, knorr bremske, haldex + maybe midland grau are the only ones really in use these days), but when I did my Haldex factory course, this was discussed. They said that in the event of any electrical failure or malfunction, the system would ‘fail safe’ and operate as a pure mechanical/air system, as this was a mandatory requirement for type approval purposes.

So… if the EBS ECU lost it’s power and the brakes failed to work, then it ain’t meeting the conditions of it’s type approval.
On the most part this is neither here nor there, but in the event of a fatal accident, if the inquest finds that them brakes not working contributed to the fatality, then someone somewhere will be finding out exactly how the corporate manslaughter laws work

This is also true, any lights on the dash should DISABLE the function and return to normal braking, so an abs or ebs fault should return to normal braking ie pure hydraulic and pumping if locked.

This is no different than the abs on your car, if the lights on, you can lock your wheels but your brakes work fine.

[fishman]

had these light up on me the other day on a daf, on and off during the day and seem to have no effect ,
then at the end of the shift the ebs and abs stayed on and everytime you turned the vehicle off and then started her up the trailer brakes where staying locked on , but then released after a bit of rocking back and forward , thankfully only a mile or so from base .Took it off hte road and the following day had new suzzies , so thats where the problem must have been ,but never had this problem before .

[dew]

bigvern1:
Remember what happened to me last time I ignored an ABS light?

Catch up for those of us who don’t?

[bigvern1]

dew:

bigvern1:
Remember what happened to me last time I ignored an ABS light?

Catch up for those of us who don’t?

Not trailer related but…