These events took place over recent weeks at a well known Irish owned mid Lancashire haulier currently being discussed in another thread. The haulier is not at fault.
Fitter is asked to service a unit. He finds keys for said unit, goes and finds it in the yard. Drives into the workshop over the pit. Has a look around it and notices it needs a rear tyre. Calls tyre co. Does a few other routine checks & bits n bobs then drops the oil leaving it to drain whilst he goes off for lunch.
Meanwhile tyre fitter turns up, sees suspension is down & wants it up. Tries to lift it but the air is down. (maybe the fitter drained the tanks)
… you know what’s coming don’t you
Tyre Fitter starts truck up and wanders off for ■■■/pee/other options available.
A few mins later rattling heck, clunk, stop!
One new engine please.
Within a few weeks same tyre fitter is sent in again to change a unit steer axle tyre.
Puts bottle jack under and proceeds to jack.
Truck rolls off the jack, jack goes through sump.
As you know, 1/2 a litre of oil on the floor looks a lot and goes a long way, now think of 10 - 11 gallons!
One new sump. Approx £1,000
Result: tyre fitter banned from site by the haulier and not to touch any of their vehicles again, even if awaiting roadside emergency call out. As the haulier was 75% of the tyre co’s work there is now a tyre fitter looking for a new job.
Hmm. Fitter not entirely blameless - he could, should, have taken the keys out when he left it in scenario 1, or left a “DO NOT START” sign on the dash/keys/windscreen.
cargocargocargo:
Hmm. Fitter not entirely blameless - he could, should, have taken the keys out when he left it in scenario 1, or left a “DO NOT START” sign on the dash/keys/windscreen.
I agree, most places I’ve worked have had some failsafe procedure to stop the engines on drained vehicles in the workshop being started that everyone had to comply with.
I might even extend the benefit of the doubt to the 2nd scenario as well. Bottle jacks, especially if they’re worn can quite easily become unseated, in a workshop environment it really ought to be a decent trolley air jack with suitable saddles being used. Does sound like he may have put it somewhere funny if it punctured the sump maybe.
cargocargocargo:
Hmm. Fitter not entirely blameless - he could, should, have taken the keys out when he left it in scenario 1, or left a “DO NOT START” sign on the dash/keys/windscreen.
Really?
I was always told, if I was taking a vehicle from the workshop, you find the fitter 1st, before anything else, for gods sake, the fitter might have had his hands in the engine when the tyre guy turned the key.
Sorry, muppetry of the 1st degree IMHO.
2nd incident, I’ve no idea, why did truck fall off jack? No handbrake on? No idea really…
cargocargocargo:
Hmm. Fitter not entirely blameless - he could, should, have taken the keys out when he left it in scenario 1, or left a “DO NOT START” sign on the dash/keys/windscreen.
Really?
I was always told, if I was taking a vehicle from the workshop, you find the fitter 1st, before anything else, for gods sake, the fitter might have had his hands in the engine when the tyre guy turned the key.
Sorry, muppetry of the 1st degree IMHO.
2nd incident, I’ve no idea, why did truck fall off jack? No handbrake on? No idea really…
Yes, the most likely person to take a drained vehicle will be another fitter that wants to use the pit, ramp and some other equipment in that bay. Most places I’ve worked have had some procedure for drained vehicles and if I’m doing it myself now and it doesn’t need the cab tilting I put the filler cap upside down on a polythene bag on the driver’s seat so I don’t forget I haven’t filled it.
I would have thought that the protection systems in the ECU would stop it before it seized up. It would still bollox the cylinder kits and need a set of pistons and liners after turning over a few times, but it would still be usable if you could cope with the oil consumption.
Well… Why was the cab not tilted to change the filter?
Never drop the oil till you tilt the cab.If the cab tilt pipe or ram fails you got to refill the donkey with a dirty filter,a waste of 30 odd litres of oil.
And who the hell jacks up a truck without the park brake on unless your doing the pads then you put it on an axle stand or a locked pit jack and then let the brake off ( or die young)
Sure this aint a bit of Irish “blarney” ?
Mind you we all ■■■■ up at times,once spent a very frustrating half hour trying to get a 6 stud wheel onto an 8 stud hub!!!
newmercman:
I would have thought that the protection systems in the ECU would stop it before it seized up. It would still bollox the cylinder kits and need a set of pistons and liners after turning over a few times, but it would still be usable if you could cope with the oil consumption.
An ecu can only act upon electrical information fed to it, only thing in a seizing engine would feed that would be oil pressure, but maybe trucks rely on a visual reading as sensors are unreliable? engine would be just pulling hard to the ecu . What the hell is a tyre fitter doing starting trucks
Think we have to much confidence in "ECU"s its only a puppet.
Eg no oil pressure but the ecu has to sense a primary sensor pressure to start to log pressure or the ecu sits there with its feet on the sofa and bugger the main bearings.
Nowt to do with me.
Dont overestimate electrical systems they are crap.
Bking:
Well… Why was the cab not tilted to change the filter?
Never drop the oil till you tilt the cab.If the cab tilt pipe or ram fails you got to refill the donkey with a dirty filter,a waste of 30 odd litres of oil.
And who the hell jacks up a truck without the park brake on unless your doing the pads then you put it on an axle stand or a locked pit jack and then let the brake off ( or die young)
Sure this aint a bit of Irish “blarney” ?
Mind you we all ■■■■ up at times,once spent a very frustrating half hour trying to get a 6 stud wheel onto an 8 stud hub!!!
Stupid [zb].doh!
most (not all) oil filters can be accessed from underneath the truck, so, to do an oil change, you technically don’t need to tilt the cab
Bking:
Well… Why was the cab not tilted to change the filter?
Never drop the oil till you tilt the cab.If the cab tilt pipe or ram fails you got to refill the donkey with a dirty filter,a waste of 30 odd litres of oil.
Depends on the wagon but some trucks you don’t need to tilt the cab to do an oil and filter change. My Renault Premium was a prime example, you did the filters from underneath.
How long have you got between losing the oil and it seizing? My Vauxhall drinks oil due to the ragging it got from its, ahem previous ( ) owners, the 'stick can be dry but still the oil pressure light won’t come on… (The bulb does work).
I read in Ride magazine several years ago about a bloke who was riding a bike when the pressure light suddenly came on. Unbeknown to him the oil had been draining out steadily. He whipped the clutch in, coasted to the kerb and killed the engine but the engine was [zb]'d. The time between the light coming on and stopping the bike was only a say 20 seconds I would think but it was enough to kill the engine.
bazza123:
How long have you got between losing the oil and it seizing? My Vauxhall drinks oil due to the ragging it got from its, ahem previous ( ) owners, the 'stick can be dry but still the oil pressure light won’t come on… (The bulb does work).
I read in Ride magazine several years ago about a bloke who was riding a bike when the pressure light suddenly came on. Unbeknown to him the oil had been draining out steadily. He whipped the clutch in, coasted to the kerb and killed the engine but the engine was [zb]'d. The time between the light coming on and stopping the bike was only a say 20 seconds I would think but it was enough to kill the engine.
At 3000rpm less than a minute, but an idling lorry engine probably 5 minutes to ‘pick up’
sonflowerinwales:
My only question to the OP, why was the tyre fitter allowed to work on a vehicle unsupervised? If it was my truck, I’d want to be there.
Cheers
Paul
I once had to have 4 drive axle tyres recut & the tyre man refused to let me sit in the cab while he worked (didn’t give a good reason why so I’ll just assume he was being a prick) so I had to get all my gear out & go ask for another motor to use…
Running an engine dry will not cause it to seize, at idle anyway, it will polish the liners and render them useless, heat is what will make it seize & it takes a good few minutes to get hot enough to turn a bearing, even without the cooling from oil.
AFAIK all electronic engines have a fail safe in them to prevent terminal damage, one factor is coolant temperature, another is oil pressure. I know of a case where an ECU was modified to delete the EGR system and the tuner bypassed both of these shut downs to allow his programme to work, a crack in a turbo oil feed pipe & the bloke got an instant boat anchor…
There was a tale going round town about an O/D who picked up his spon new Volvo pride and joy from the dealers in town after its first service, later in the day the diff was erm, sounding a bit noisy
Electrics probably will not actually stop the engine. If sensing a lack of oil may put it into reduced power mode and put the red STOP light on, on the dash. If you are not sitting in the truck, obviously no warnings would be seen.
Its not a large workshop, I think there’s only 2 of them, so signs etc. aren’t needed as each knows what the other is up to and an in any case one works on units, the other on trailers.
When I was running my (non HGV) garage business I always used to take the keys out when I’d dropped oil … and there was only me there!
In this case it was up to the tyre fitter to ensure it was safe to start the truck.
. What the hell is a tyre fitter doing starting trucks 
) owners, the 'stick can be dry but still the oil pressure light won’t come on… (The bulb does work).