I’ve been working for an agency for just short of a year now, when I registered I signed the form that authorises the night working exemption (working for more than 10 hours on a shift covering 0000 - 0400).
Since then I’ve pretty much done nights all the time, some nights I work for more than 10 hours which shouldn’t have been a problem, but…
I’ve just been informed (after an FTA audit) that the agency didn’t have the permission/authority/whatever to offer the exemption for me to sign, so I’ve been handed a sheet of paper (On FTA headed paper) with a list of infringements, worded something along the lines of this;
DATE. **** START TIME. **** FINISH TIME. **** POA. **** BREAK. **** DRIVING. **** OTHER WORK. **** TOTAL WORKING TIME. ****
Working time of 11hrs - Maximum 10hrs
DATE. **** START TIME. **** FINISH TIME. **** POA. **** BREAK. **** DRIVING. **** OTHER WORK. **** TOTAL WORKING TIME. ****
Working time of 12.5hrs - Maximum 10hrs
etc…
It didn’t say any further action is being taken, but now the agency is saying that whenever I get put forward for a new client they have to make them aware that I have a ‘PLC’■■ The consultant mentioned something about the infringements being published but he didn’t say where, I’m assuming a PLC is some kind of infringement database that firms can check up on.
Anyone shed any light on this?
I’m contemplating speaking to a solicitor as I feel as if I’ve been misled but I don’t really know what the implications of a ‘PLC’ is or how it will affect me.
Never heard about that before … you work for an agency not the place you drive for.
I work 11 + hours many a time nothing said to me like as you say I signed a waver that said I was happy to work more than the 10hr night shift been doing it of 15 years now so I’d be in a whole pile of doooooooooooooo 
Yeah, I was more than happy to work for longer than 10 hours as I thought I’d signed the exemption (they call it a workforce relevant agreement).
Turns out that I haven’t been exempt for all this time and I’ve been racking up infringements because of it. 
Chiz:
…(working for more than 10 hours on a shift covering 0000 - 0400)…
Without an agreement in place you aren’t just limited to 10 hours work in the shift, it’s 10 hours work in any 24-hour period. The actual wording from the regulations is -
Night work
9. - (1) The working time of a mobile worker, who performs night work in any period of 24 hours, shall not exceed 10 hours during that period.
For example if you do a shift from 22:00 - 11:00 with 8 hours driving, 2 hours other work and 3 hours break and POA you have reached the 10 hour limit for 24 hours. If your next shift starts at 21:00, and you spend the first hour of the shift undertaking driving or other work, you would now have done 11 hours work in the 24-hours and that would not comply with the WTD night limit.
I just thought I would clarify that as I know of drivers who have fallen foul of the rules by thinking once they have done a shift and taken a daily rest they can just resume work. While under the tacho rules that isn’t a problem it is under the WTD.
How long are your actual shifts? Accumulating 12.5 hours actual work on a night shift makes that a pretty long shift by the time breaks and any POA are added on. Don’t night shifts tend to be a bit shorter as the vehicle often needs to be back for the day shift guy?
Coffeeholic:
How long are your actual shifts? Accumulating 12.5 hours actual work on a night shift makes that a pretty long shift by the time breaks and any POA are added on. Don’t night shifts tend to be a bit shorter as the vehicle often needs to be back for the day shift guy?
Some of my shifts are as long as 15 hours (never any longer of course!) Because of the nature of the work I don’t get POA’s although I get more than enough breaks.
The client has a system where each vehicle sets off at staggered times and arrives back at staggered times, it actually works really well (it was left to the drivers to devise it).
Coffeeholic:
For example if you do a shift from 22:00 - 11:00 with 8 hours driving, 2 hours other work and 3 hours break and POA you have reached the 10 hour limit for 24 hours. If your next shift starts at 21:00, and you spend the first hour of the shift undertaking driving or other work, you would now have done 11 hours work in the 24-hours and that would not comply with the WTD night limit.
I just thought I would clarify that as I know of drivers who have fallen foul of the rules by thinking once they have done a shift and taken a daily rest they can just resume work. While under the tacho rules that isn’t a problem it is under the WTD.
I may also have been falling foul of this rule, again, I was under the impression that I was working under a relevant agreement. I’ll bet my last pound that the form I signed has been “misplaced”.
Chiz:
I’ve just been informed (after an FTA audit) that the agency didn’t have the permission/authority/whatever to offer the exemption for me to sign, so I’ve been handed a sheet of paper (On FTA headed paper) with a list of infringements, worded something along the lines of this;
You may have signed an agreement but from what you say it seems possible that the agency may not have gone through the correct procedures to implement a workforce agreement and it’s unlikely that they would have a collective agreement in place between the agency and a union.
Legally it’s not just a case of an employer writing out an agreement and getting you to sign it, the agreement has to be correctly put into place by electing workers representatives (if there’s more than 20 workers) who are then able to negotiate an opt out agreement with the employer.
Article 7.0 - Road Transport (Working Time) Guidance:
The conditions relating to a workforce agreement are as follows:
- an election must be conducted and those voting must be able to do so in secret;
- the votes must be fairly and accurately counted;
- candidates for election must be relevant members of the workforce or in the case of a group of workers they must be members of the group;
- workers must be able to vote for as many candidates as there are representatives to be elected; and
- the number of representatives to be elected is to be determined by the employer.
To be valid, a workforce agreement:
- must be in writing and have effect for a specific period (not exceeding 5 years);
- have been circulated in draft to all workers to whom it applies together with the guidance to assist their understanding of it;
- be signed before it comes into effect either:
- by all the representatives of the members of the workforce or group of workers, or
- if there are 20 workers or fewer employed by a company, either by all representatives of a workforce or by a majority of the workforce.
tachograph:
You may have signed an agreement but from what you say it seems possible that the agency may not have gone through the correct procedures to implement a workforce agreement and it’s unlikely that they would have a collective agreement in place between the agency and a union.
Legally it’s not just a case of an employer writing out an agreement and getting you to sign it, the agreement has to be correctly put into place by electing workers representatives (if there’s more than 20 workers) who are then able to negotiate an opt out agreement with the employer.
Article 7.0 - Road Transport (Working Time) Guidance:
The conditions relating to a workforce agreement are as follows:
- an election must be conducted and those voting must be able to do so in secret;
- the votes must be fairly and accurately counted;
- candidates for election must be relevant members of the workforce or in the case of a group of workers they must be members of the group;
- workers must be able to vote for as many candidates as there are representatives to be elected; and
- the number of representatives to be elected is to be determined by the employer.
To be valid, a workforce agreement:
- must be in writing and have effect for a specific period (not exceeding 5 years);
- have been circulated in draft to all workers to whom it applies together with the guidance to assist their understanding of it;
- be signed before it comes into effect either:
- by all the representatives of the members of the workforce or group of workers, or
- if there are 20 workers or fewer employed by a company, either by all representatives of a workforce or by a majority of the workforce.
Am i right in thinking that if ther company/client he goes to work for does indeed have an actuall signed/agreed opt out then he is covered by this without the need to be signing anything? I’m pretty sure that if i got a job tommorrow at a place where they have an opt out then i am covered by it. I.E i can’t individually decided i want to be bound by the 10 hour rule if there is an agreed opt out.
Mike-C:
Am i right in thinking that if ther company/client he goes to work for does indeed have an actuall signed/agreed opt out then he is covered by this without the need to be signing anything? I’m pretty sure that if i got a job tommorrow at a place where they have an opt out then i am covered by it. I.E i can’t individually decided i want to be bound by the 10 hour rule if there is an agreed opt out.
The agreement has to be between the employer and the mobile workers employed by him or there representatives, so I wouldn’t think an agreement in the agencies clients business would cover him, but apart from that as far as I can see an established agreement would cover new employees as long as they’re a part of the people or group of people covered by the agreement.
I was under the impression that you had to sign to opt out even if there was an existing agreement but I can’t find anything to that effect so presumably you’d be covered automatically.
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005:
“workforce agreement” means an agreement between an
employer and mobile workers employed by him or their
representatives in respect of which the conditions set out in
Schedule 1 to these Regulations are satisfied;
tachograph:
Mike-C:
Am i right in thinking that if ther company/client he goes to work for does indeed have an actuall signed/agreed opt out then he is covered by this without the need to be signing anything? I’m pretty sure that if i got a job tommorrow at a place where they have an opt out then i am covered by it. I.E i can’t individually decided i want to be bound by the 10 hour rule if there is an agreed opt out.
The agreement has to be between the employer and the mobile workers employed by him or there representatives, so I wouldn’t think an agreement in the agencies clients business would cover him, but apart from that as far as I can see an established agreement would cover new employees as long as they’re a part of the people or group of people covered by the agreement.
I was under the impression that you had to sign to opt out even if there was an existing agreement but I can’t find anything to that effect so presumably you’d be covered automatically.
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005:
“workforce agreement” means an agreement between an
employer and mobile workers employed by him or their
representatives in respect of which the conditions set out in
Schedule 1 to these Regulations are satisfied;
hi mate i was under the impression the there is no opt out of the RTD only the 10 hour
night rule
workforce agreements are for whether you have a 17 week reference period or 26 week one
7.1 Relevant Agreements
These can be either a collective agreement or work force agreement.
In general, employers and workers can agree to extend the reference period for the average 48
hour working time limit up to a maximum of 26 weeks and agree whether this will be
monitored using a fixed or rolling method (see Section 3.7 - “who decides what reference
period should be used”). Agreements can also be used to exceed the 10 hour limit for night
work (see Section 4.4 - “working longer than 10 hours”).
These agreements can be made by ‘collective agreement’ (between the employer and an
independent trade union) or a ‘workforce agreement’. If a worker has any part of their
conditions determined by a collective agreement they cannot be subject to a workforce
agreement.
Whether a collective agreement entered into by trade union representatives with a particular
employer will apply to all the workers, union and non-union doing the relevant work, depends
on the arrangements at that individual workplace and the terms of the workers’ contracts.
A workforce agreement is made with elected representatives of the workforce in most cases
(see below). A workforce agreement can apply to the whole workforce or to a group of
workers. The conditions relating to a workforce agreement are as follows:
- an election must be conducted and those voting must be able to do so in secret;
- the votes must be fairly and accurately counted;
- candidates for election must be relevant members of the workforce or in the case of a group of
workers they must be members of the group;
- workers must be able to vote for as many candidates as there are representatives to be elected;
and
- the number of representatives to be elected is to be determined by the employer.
To be valid, a workforce agreement:
- must be in writing and have effect for a specific period (not exceeding 5 years);
- have been circulated in draft to all workers to whom it applies together with the guidance to
assist their understanding of it; and
- be signed before it comes into effect either:
o by all the representatives of the members of the workforce or group of workers; or
o if there are 20 workers or fewer employed by a company, either by all representatives
of a workforce or by a majority of the workforce.
delboytwo:
7.1 Relevant Agreements
These can be either a collective agreement or work force agreement.
In general, employers and workers can agree to extend the reference period for the average 48
hour working time limit up to a maximum of 26 weeks and agree whether this will be
monitored using a fixed or rolling method (see Section 3.7 - “who decides what reference
period should be used”). Agreements can also be used to exceed the 10 hour limit for night
work (see Section 4.4 - “working longer than 10 hours”).
hi mate i was under the impression the there is no opt out of the RTD only the 10 hour
night rule
workforce agreements are for whether you have a 17 week reference period or 26 week one
Workforce agreements are also for opting out of the night time worker 10 hour work limitation which is what this thread is about 
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005:
Night work
-
- (1) The working time of a mobile worker, who performs night
work in any period of 24 hours, shall not exceed 10 hours during that
period.
(2) The period of 10 hours may be extended in relation to particular
mobile workers or groups of mobile workers for objective or technical
reasons or reasons concerning the organisation of work, by a collective
agreement or a workforce agreement.
