Now, as you may know, I’ve just done my CPC National and International, and although my trainers were in the main excellent, there were a few points on which I disagreed with them.
One of them was about Cabotage rules. My International CPC trainer said that a driver was limited to undertaking three Cabotage journeys within seven days of delivering the import load (which I agree with), but he also said that an empty movement was also a Cabotage movement, which I am not entirely sure that I do agree with. In effect, unless you were loaded at the place you delivered the import load to, this would mean that you could only make one loaded journey within the country you were in.
Any thoughts on this?
He’s wrong. I trust this clarifies matters 
switchlogic:
He’s wrong. I trust this clarifies matters
& to support this; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabotage
This referes initially to air & sea but the principal is the same, it goes on to mention road trnsport.
Ross.
something that I always wonder about cabotage is what part of the vehicle qualifies?
to do a load from one EU country to another the vehicle must be from an EU state, but what part must be from the EU?
I’ve seen dutch trailers being pulled by russian reg units for willi betz and I’ve seen lithuanian trailers being pulled by russians both loading near madrid for the UK, so is it just the trailer that makes it legal
welshboyinspain:
something that I always wonder about cabotage is what part of the vehicle qualifies?
to do a load from one EU country to another the vehicle must be from an EU state, but what part must be from the EU?
I’ve seen dutch trailers being pulled by russian reg units for willi betz and I’ve seen lithuanian trailers being pulled by russians both loading near madrid for the UK, so is it just the trailer that makes it legal
It can only be the bit that the Community Authorisation relates to, the unit 
AFAIK, cabotage is the act of collecting and delivering in the same country, but using a foreign registered vehicle for that journey.
So by logic, I’d guess that a journey from one place to another, even in the same country, involving an empty vehicle doesn’t fit the definition.
So in the case of Russian registered trucks pulling trailers from an EU country between say Spain and the UK. Is this legal or does it just go un-noticed by the authorities in the respective countries?
robinhood_1984:
So in the case of Russian registered trucks pulling trailers from an EU country between say Spain and the UK. Is this legal or does it just go un-noticed by the authorities in the respective countries?
depends on whether or not they have the relevant permits
robinhood_1984:
So in the case of Russian registered trucks pulling trailers from an EU country between say Spain and the UK. Is this legal or does it just go un-noticed by the authorities in the respective countries?
That wouldn’t be cabotage, that’s a third country movement but it would be legal with an ECMT permit.
businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =RESOURCES
Are you sure these are Russian and not from the latest enlargement of the EU.
Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania
Harry Monk:
robinhood_1984:
So in the case of Russian registered trucks pulling trailers from an EU country between say Spain and the UK. Is this legal or does it just go un-noticed by the authorities in the respective countries?
That wouldn’t be cabotage, that’s a third country movement but it would be legal with an ECMT permit.
businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =RESOURCES
Yep, that’s third country work, not cabotage.
Thanks Harry, I’ve just learned something by clicking that link… I used to use ECMT books for third country Euro tramping in the 80s, but now I’ve just seen it, I’ll own up that the membership of the ECMT has changed almost beyond my recognition. 
If Turkey is a member as the link states, why is it that we dont see Turks undertaking work on permits between other third countries etc? Or perhaps they do and its just assumed they’re heading to Turkey as they’re not pulling another nationality of trailer etc like the Russian registered units often do. That said, any place I’ve ever been where theres been Turkish trucks, they have always been coming from or going to Turkey but with an international transport fleet as vast as they have, why dont we see massive amounts of Turks operating within Europe for example like the Poles already did pre 2004?
robinhood_1984:
If Turkey is a member as the link states, why is it that we dont see Turks undertaking work on permits between other third countries etc? Or perhaps they do and its just assumed they’re heading to Turkey as they’re not pulling another nationality of trailer etc like the Russian registered units often do. That said, any place I’ve ever been where theres been Turkish trucks, they have always been coming from or going to Turkey but with an international transport fleet as vast as they have, why dont we see massive amounts of Turks operating within Europe for example like the Poles already did pre 2004?
We always did, if you ever went into Dover in the 80’s there were plenty of Turks, there still are a few in Western Docks. But Madchester Truckstop had a parking area for them and they were there for weeks sometimes. Milan was another big parking area while they waited for loads.
I think because their economy is still quite strong at present, they have enough work of their own going East.
Wheel Nut:
robinhood_1984:
If Turkey is a member as the link states, why is it that we dont see Turks undertaking work on permits between other third countries etc? Or perhaps they do and its just assumed they’re heading to Turkey as they’re not pulling another nationality of trailer etc like the Russian registered units often do. That said, any place I’ve ever been where theres been Turkish trucks, they have always been coming from or going to Turkey but with an international transport fleet as vast as they have, why dont we see massive amounts of Turks operating within Europe for example like the Poles already did pre 2004?
We always did, if you ever went into Dover in the 80’s there were plenty of Turks, there still are a few in Western Docks. But Madchester Truckstop had a parking area for them and they were there for weeks sometimes. Milan was another big parking area while they waited for loads.
I think because their economy is still quite strong at present, they have enough work of their own going East.
I used to regularly go to Krefeld when I was younger with my dad and once remember a Turk truck being parked there for about three and a half weeks until he finally left.
What was the score with the Turkish work, I’ve always wondered why British firms managed to maintain a good market share of that work well in to the 90s and then seemingly vanished from it overnight. The Turks are nothing new in Europe and are and must always have been much cheaper so how come Davis Turner and the like were still sending UK trucks there in the 90s. Was it a matter of a limited number of permits for trucks of both countries meaning both nationalities got used or something along those lines?
i understand your curiosity harry, but the reality is.
no one ever gets checked anyway. 
robinhood_1984:
Wheel Nut:
robinhood_1984:
If Turkey is a member as the link states, why is it that we dont see Turks undertaking work on permits between other third countries etc? Or perhaps they do and its just assumed they’re heading to Turkey as they’re not pulling another nationality of trailer etc like the Russian registered units often do. That said, any place I’ve ever been where theres been Turkish trucks, they have always been coming from or going to Turkey but with an international transport fleet as vast as they have, why dont we see massive amounts of Turks operating within Europe for example like the Poles already did pre 2004?
We always did, if you ever went into Dover in the 80’s there were plenty of Turks, there still are a few in Western Docks. But Madchester Truckstop had a parking area for them and they were there for weeks sometimes. Milan was another big parking area while they waited for loads.
I think because their economy is still quite strong at present, they have enough work of their own going East.
I used to regularly go to Krefeld when I was younger with my dad and once remember a Turk truck being parked there for about three and a half weeks until he finally left.
What was the score with the Turkish work, I’ve always wondered why British firms managed to maintain a good market share of that work well in to the 90s and then seemingly vanished from it overnight. The Turks are nothing new in Europe and are and must always have been much cheaper so how come Davis Turner and the like were still sending UK trucks there in the 90s. Was it a matter of a limited number of permits for trucks of both countries meaning both nationalities got used or something along those lines?
Don’t forget the Gastarbeiter, Germany is full of them with second and third generation families living in the big cities. Many Deutsche Turks work for German companies.
A lot of Turkish traffic was textile, much of that has moved to Maroc, Tunisia and Algeria as well as Lithuania etc
limeyphil:
i understand your curiosity harry, but the reality is.
no one ever gets checked anyway.
I wouldn’t bank on that. VOSA are very hot on Cabotage these days, many large Irish companies have been fined.
limeyphil:
i understand your curiosity harry, but the reality is.
no one ever gets checked anyway.
No, I just needed to know the answer for my International CPC exam, and my trainer’s opinion of cabotage differed from mine. The question did come up in the exam but I answered it in a way that avoided the issue. Personally, I think it only refers to loaded movements.
As my trainers stressed, “CPC Land” is a different place to the real world, for example in the multiple choice questions when the ask you what you should do when you have driven for four-and-a-half hours, nowhere does the answer “put a magnet on your gearbox sensor and carry on” appear
Harry Monk:
robinhood_1984:
So in the case of Russian registered trucks pulling trailers from an EU country between say Spain and the UK. Is this legal or does it just go un-noticed by the authorities in the respective countries?
That wouldn’t be cabotage, that’s a third country movement but it would be legal with an ECMT permit.
thankyou, I now know what is and isn’t cabotage 
Wheel Nut:
Are you sure these are Russian and not from the latest enlargement of the EU.
Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania
deffo russian as they have russian number plates 
the ones i was loading with were from the company Girteka from lithuania but had russian units