A plea for advice

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Recently a friend and I purchased an ex-Army Armoured Personnel Carrier (an FV432 for those with an interest in that kind of thing) and we’ve been discussing purchasing a low loader in order to move it and our other toys around to shows, etc without having to rely on others. However this would obviously cost a fair bit of money and the intention is to hire it out (with me driving) when not using it for our own purposes to recoup some of our investment as well as earning a living for myself.

My question, and the point of this post is to enquire on the practicalities of doing this…

Are there any specific licence’s or tickets, etc we would require?
What kind of insurance, etc?
Also if anyone can give me a rough idea how much the above would cost (ballpark).

Also I haven’t held my class one licence very long - less than a year - would that be just a hindrance or a total buffer-stop?

If anyone can help me with any of this or point me in the direction of people that can I will be extremely grateful!

Regards, Elliot (Colchester)

2

I think you would have to get an O license and all the insurance that goes with running a truck.Having a license for less than a year shouldn’t change much as your not trying to get employed.I don’t know if any of that’s right though :confused:

3

Hi,

As you can see I am also new to this forum but not entirely new to Road Transport and also an operator and O Licence holder.
Having something of an interest in Military Vehicles of the Truck variety your post took my interest and will try to offer some friendly advice to you.
Firstly, if you are looking to buy a low loader, take it a unit and trailer is what you have in mind, and also use it for general haulage when not in use carting the 432 about then you may face a couple of problems that will need further research on your part.

Operators Licence will be your first obstacle: 2 routes you can take on this
A/ Take your CPC, Certificate of Professional Competence, apply for the operators licence in your own name as Transport Manager, fulfil the requirements of the Traffic Commissioners including financial standing, good repute, operating centre, Maintenance facilities etc.
A whole list of the forms and publications can be found here
dft.gov.uk/vosa/forms/lorryo … gforms.htm
With some further interesting and informative stuff here
businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … 1074407470

B/ Employ a CPC holder / Transport manager or company that specialises in these matters and still have to fulfil the above mentioned requirements apart from actually holding the CPC yourself.

It’s a lot of hard work but if you are sure that you want to go that route it is worth it.

Second is your experience and length of holding a licence to drive.
Insurance for Low Loader work can be quite steep due to the value of the loads being carried and the possible problems that they can cause, abnormal weights and sizes to name just two.
Obviously your insurance premium will be in some way linked to your experience and track record…

Depending on the weight of the 432, somewhere in the region of 15 tonnes I believe you would not need a huge outfit to haul it but going small in the world of low loader work is not really the way forward so you would be most likely be looking at 44 gross at the very least.

If you are determined, can get insurance, find work, which is not bountiful in the low loader market at the moment, then I would say you will be unlikely to look back and will be able to cart the 432 about as well.

If you doubt you can do the above then I would suggest the following.
Find yourself a Historic vehicle, Scammell maybe, (I am biased, I have 2 of them!) either tractor unit and low loader or Truck and trailer and move it about that way.
Best of two worlds then and two vehicles to show at the rallies etc.

Or get someone to move it for you, its not as expensive as you might think

You might want to take a look on the HMV forum hmvf.co.uk/ These guys are moving stuff about like this all the time.

Good luck

4

Thanks a lot for all of that, given me plenty to think about! Oh and yes, I meant a unit and trailer set-up, no more than 44t just yet :smiley:
Having spoken to people at the War and Peace show this year the consensus seemed to be just under a grand for the return trip from our neck of the woods (Essex-Suffolk border) down to Paddock Wood and we began by wondering would it work out cheaper in the long run to do it ourselves - having several associates in the farming community and a knowing few owners of plant-hire outfits, as well as advertising in the military/classic vehicle magazines, etc I’m fairly confident that we could attract some work.

I suppose it’s something I’ll have to think long and hard about before taking any drastic steps! Thanks again for the links, etc - they’ll provide much food for thought!

Just a little question though - for the O/L do maintenance facilities need to be something dedicated, or would commercial garages be acceptable? Or can it even be unofficial - fixing things ourselves for example?

Thanks, Elliot

5

Elmo1987:
Thanks a lot for all of that, given me plenty to think about! Oh and yes, I meant a unit and trailer set-up, no more than 44t just yet :smiley:
Having spoken to people at the War and Peace show this year the consensus seemed to be just under a grand for the return trip from our neck of the woods (Essex-Suffolk border) down to Paddock Wood and we began by wondering would it work out cheaper in the long run to do it ourselves - having several associates in the farming community and a knowing few owners of plant-hire outfits, as well as advertising in the military/classic vehicle magazines, etc I’m fairly confident that we could attract some work.

I suppose it’s something I’ll have to think long and hard about before taking any drastic steps! Thanks again for the links, etc - they’ll provide much food for thought!

Just a little question though - for the O/L do maintenance facilities need to be something dedicated, or would commercial garages be acceptable? Or can it even be unofficial - fixing things ourselves for example?

Thanks, Elliot

Hi

Perfectly accepable to employ a garage to undertake your maintenance, six weekly inspections, servicing etc but you will need to have a written contract / Agreement with them.
You would be able to fix them yourself but will have to satisfy the commisioner that you are able to undertake the work, have the facility to do so and know what you are doing.
There is a form on the VOSA web link for setting up a contract / agreement with a third party service provider…

Good luck

6

Thanks again!
I’m determined to work for myself as soon as possible and this seems to be the most appealing way as it will kill several birds with the one stone as it were - I appreciate it will be very hard work but I love a challenge so hopefully I’ll be able to sort something out! I’m glad to have found this site - get the feeling it will prove invaluable!

Elliot

7

First of all…

Hi Elmo1987,

Elmo1987:
My question, and the point of this post is to enquire on the practicalities of doing this…

Hi Elliot, IMHO, plantters has given you some excellent advice.

The one thing that I’d just clarify a bit for you is that you can hold an Operator’s Licence, which would/can be in your name.

You can choose between an ‘own-account’ ‘O’ licence OR a ‘Standard National’ ‘O’ licence, but there are pros and cons to both.

‘Own-account’ ‘O’ licence.
An ‘own-account’ ‘O’ licence is more easily obtained, you wouldn’t need a CPC qualified TM, BUT you’d be limited to carrying your own ‘stuff.’

‘Standard National’ ‘O’ licence.
You could choose to apply for a ‘Standard National’ ‘O’ licence, which lets you carry other folk’s ‘stuff,’ but they’re a bit harder to obtain.
There’s also a requirement to have a nominated Transport Manager (TM,) [as mentioned by plantters]which can be yourself OR another person.
The person who is the nominated TM must hold at least a ‘National’ operator CPC, if you plan to truck about just in the UK.
If you take this option, you can carry ‘stuff’ for other folks and charge them for carrying it.

If you plan to obtain your own National CPC, the qualification is set to be the same as an “A” level in terms of difficulty.
You can find more info on the operator CPC in this topic:

When you land on that page, please click the ‘National CPC’ link that some rambling fool put there. :wink: :grimacing:

I hope this helps. :smiley:

8

Thank you for the welcome and additional info dieseldave!
If I were to go down the Nominated person route, does this person have to be someone tied only to our venture? For example, if I were to approach the CPC holder of another outfit are they allowed to take another concern under their wing so to speak?

I apologise for the myriad of questions but as you can probably tell I’m absolutely clueless at present, extremely keen to learn though! :laughing:

9

As others have said including Dodgy Dave!! lol long time no speak.

Just one extra point you wont need 6 week inspections with the mileage you will be doing 10 or 12 will do and it will save you a small fortune. Avoid the main dealers and find a good back street fitter to do your inspections (in fact if you can find a retired fitter and a friendly farmer to let him operate then even better)

I will get shot for this but why not transport for free if you are just into the military shows, you can then sell your show expertise elsewhere if you catch my drift. Puts appropriate Tin Hat on and awaits incoming rounds! :laughing: :blush: :wink:

10

Oh and ring NFU for insurance they are as cheap as chips!!

11

Thank you, I like the sound of saving money! As it happens a family friend used to run their own bulk haulage firm, may have a word and see if any of their former fitters are still about and in need of some pocket money!

12

N2N Transport:
As others have said including Dodgy Dave!! lol long time no speak.

OY!!, I resemble that remark!! :laughing: :laughing:

Long time no speak indeed mate, how’s it going? :smiley:

13

Elmo1987:
Thank you for the welcome and additional info dieseldave!
If I were to go down the Nominated person route, does this person have to be someone tied only to our venture? For example, if I were to approach the CPC holder of another outfit are they allowed to take another concern under their wing so to speak?

Cheers for that Elmo1987
Another CPC holder from another company (or a consultant) not directly employed by you can operate for you as TM.
There are a couple of little conditions that go with that though…
Our guy would have to demonstrate that he has full and effective control of transport matters at your firm… and the Licencing Authorities don’t take too kindly to a TM who lives too far (in their opinion) from your operating center, especially if he/she is the nominated TM on several ‘O’ licences.

Elmo1987:
I apologise for the myriad of questions but as you can probably tell I’m absolutely clueless at present, extremely keen to learn though! :laughing:

No need to apologise mate, you won’t find anything out unless you ask, and we don’t mind helping cos we’re nice folks. :wink: :smiley:

14

we don’t mind helping cos we’re nice folks.

It’s all very much appreciated! I’m starting to think maybe trying to get my own O/L is probably going to be the best way - not necessarily the easiest but I’ve never expected that - at least then I’ll know I have it and don’t have to worry about getting someone else to do the honours! :laughing:

15

First of all, will go on the forum friday night dave miss the chats!!

Elmo,

your posts and the way you word them make you seem a nice honest bloke, so I say this to you most O/D’s scrape a living chasing work no one else wants to do. The exception and there are a few of us have either a reputation or a different service to offer. From one who knows think the worst and double it, work your surplus/day to day cash and halve your expectations on reserves.

Any business is hard but sorry if I sound cocky I don’t mean to be, you have not learned the trade or the contacts needed to make a succesful run at this. Think hard about cash flow and cost, then think about how 2 tyres blown out in a week will destroy your od wages,Sleep on it realise its madness and join a firm. Or alternatively get up shout at the sky hitch your pants high and aim for the moon!!He who dares Rodney!!! but be very careful :wink:

16

Elmo1987:

we don’t mind helping cos we’re nice folks.

It’s all very much appreciated! I’m starting to think maybe trying to get my own O/L is probably going to be the best way - not necessarily the easiest but I’ve never expected that - at least then I’ll know I have it and don’t have to worry about getting someone else to do the honours! :laughing:

Aye, that’s true Elmo, you can still have your own ‘O’ licence, but using a hired-in TM.

If you have a friend who holds a National CPC, you would still fill in all the forms and be the boss, all the CPC holder has to do is to sign a declaration and send an original CPC for verification. The Licencing Authority then sends the CPC back and the job’s a good 'un. :smiley:

Did you check out what’s involved in obtaining your own National CPC ?
I know of somewhere not that far from you where you could attend a course and sit the three necessary exams. :wink:

17

N2N Transport:
First of all, will go on the forum friday night dave miss the chats!!

Noted. :wink:

18

N2N Transport, thank you for both the compliment and the advice…
I read your post this morning as I was getting ready for work and have had the day to reflect on what you’ve said.

I appreciate your honesty and have to agree with you on much of what you said, I think I’m going to hang fire for a year or so - get a bit more experience and what not and then try and make a go of it. I’m fortunate in that I’m surrounded by people who can help me either through advice or by throwing work my way but I think I need to get a few more strings to my bow first.

I’m still only a young’un so there’s plenty of time as yet, a year or two isn’t going to hurt - perhaps the industry will be a bit more fertile by then as well! I’m still pretty confident because I know I’ll work as hard as I have to when the time comes.

Thanks again!

19

Bit of an update, it appears as though the firm I work for at the moment are paying for me to undertake my CPC in order to be the defacto TM for the firm! :smiley:
As I’m the only driver I think they’re trying to put all their transport matters in my hands!

20

Elmo1987:
Bit of an update, it appears as though the firm I work for at the moment are paying for me to undertake my CPC in order to be the defacto TM for the firm! :smiley:
As I’m the only driver I think they’re trying to put all their transport matters in my hands!

I think that’s whats known as a RESULT!! :smiley:
I think waiting a couple of years would be good, gives you time to build up the experience.