UKtramp:
I believe, in fact I was mocked for my beliefs and predictions that this is all well on the way and has been in development for years. I have first hand experience of working in and developing automation and I know the subject very well. It is on it’s way in the driving arena.
Have you ever been to Elevenerife?
There always the one guy in the work place who if you told him you was going to Tenerife for your holidays he would instantly tell you he is going Elvenerife because he is Mr “1 up” on everything you’ve done/seen/experienced…you strike me as that guy.
Really? Well maybe I am simply more knowledgeable than you are and lets not forget that I also work in a field where I not only have been involved with this subject of automation but I actually do it. You may have a backward view of things but that doesn’t mean my views are one up on you going to Tenerife. Use a bit of common sense when you post a reply to me is all that I ask or I will come across that way.
UKtramp:
I believe, in fact I was mocked for my beliefs and predictions that this is all well on the way and has been in development for years. I have first hand experience of working in and developing automation and I know the subject very well. It is on it’s way in the driving arena.
Have you ever been to Elevenerife?
There always the one guy in the work place who if you told him you was going to Tenerife for your holidays he would instantly tell you he is going Elvenerife because he is Mr “1 up” on everything you’ve done/seen/experienced…you strike me as that guy.
Really? Well maybe I am simply more knowledgeable than you are and lets not forget that I also work in a field where I not only have been involved with this subject of automation but I actually do it. You may have a backward view of things but that doesn’t mean my views are one up on you going to Tenerife. Use a bit of common sense when you post a reply to me is all that I ask or I will come across that way.
In comparison to you, yes that is probably true. It is due to the fact that I have spent most of my professional life studying and working amongst intellects that turns you into one. You will probably know more than I do on other non intellectual subjects as that is your area, so it really is dependent on what subjects you have studied or have experience on which makes you more knowledgeable. To non academics you simply come across as a know it all, that is expected and ignored by academics such as myself. It is a shame but it is a fact that some non academic people cannot converse, but then there is an element that can, those are the ones I address and not your type which is a shame really.
IronEddie:
I don’t think anyone doubts the tech is being developed. I disagree with those who think it will take over completely. I don’t think that will happen in my lifetime.
As much as anything else people are only just starting to think about the huge social and political ramifications of the mass unemployment widespread automation will cause. I think I read that this year the UN set up its first full time office to research the impact of automation. Amongst other things being considered was the idea of governments imposing a quota of human employees a business would have to have.
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You have an opinion that is from the dark ages. In the last 50 years we have gone from mechanised to computerised, from computerised to automation, this is just another step from the technology that has been developed now be put into use of vehicles. Mass unemployment is what we already have so nothing new there. People will go into other employment like the miners had to do and all the other workers who have been affected by automation. You only have to look at how we have gone from two way radio to wired telephones and then the smart phones we have today in a very short period.
I don’t think you appreciate the scale of unemployment that could hit. Bare in mind this automation isn’t isolated to trucking. I read it could be as high as 30% see google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg … tudy-warns
That’s a significant number and one the government would need to manage in some way. The fact these ramifications of automation are being studied proves it’s a legitimate concern. Not a dark ages view. Huge social changes will need to take place side by side with automation.
IronEddie:
I don’t think you appreciate the scale of unemployment that could hit. Bare in mind this automation isn’t isolated to trucking. I read it could be as high as 30% see google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg … tudy-warns
That’s a significant number and one the government would need to manage in some way. The fact these ramifications of automation are being studied proves it’s a legitimate concern. Not a dark ages view. Huge social changes will need to take place side by side with automation.
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Well you put up a very good point, I will indeed read that link as you obviously have done. Good point.
IronEddie:
I don’t think anyone doubts the tech is being developed. I disagree with those who think it will take over completely. I don’t think that will happen in my lifetime.
As much as anything else people are only just starting to think about the huge social and political ramifications of the mass unemployment widespread automation will cause. I think I read that this year the UN set up its first full time office to research the impact of automation. Amongst other things being considered was the idea of governments imposing a quota of human employees a business would have to have.
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You have an opinion that is from the dark ages. In the last 50 years we have gone from mechanised to computerised, from computerised to automation, this is just another step from the technology that has been developed now be put into use of vehicles. Mass unemployment is what we already have so nothing new there. People will go into other employment like the miners had to do and all the other workers who have been affected by automation. You only have to look at how we have gone from two way radio to wired telephones and then the smart phones we have today in a very short period.
The predictions for automation is way bigger than what’s happened in the last 50 years, there are predictions of between 30% to 47% of jobs at risk of automation and these aren’t just manual low skilled jobs, they include many middle management jobs, jobs in the financial sector, IT sector the list is endless. During the recession of the 1980’s the official unemployment was around the 3 million mark about 12% of the working population.
You say like the last 50 years of de-industrilisation new jobs will be created, this might be true, but look at the type of jobs that have been created, but for many the well paid secure jobs have been replaced by low paid jobs without the security,
Found this while looking round the internet.
A study found that most MG Rover workers found new jobs in the service industry…
… but they were paid £5,640 ($8,911) less a year.
And throughout the developed economies in the World wages have stagnated in real terms for most people, but the gap between the richest and poorest has increased.
If you look back at history it seems obvious as that in the developed economies, we are building a bonfire with all the components for major civil unrest and revolution, all it needs to go up is the spark, something like heavy handed government, such as happened in Barcelona a couple of weeks ago, might be all it takes.
IronEddie:
That’s a significant number and one the government would need to manage in some way. The fact these ramifications of automation are being studied proves it’s a legitimate concern. Not a dark ages view. Huge social changes will need to take place side by side with automation.
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The most interesting point to me reading the piece is the quote of what I really have already stated and I quote "In addition, legal and regulatory hurdles, organisational inertia and legacy systems will slow down the shift towards AI and robotics even where this becomes technically and economically feasible. And this may not be a bad thing if it gives existing workers and businesses more time to adapt to this brave new world,” he said.
Nice to see you have at least read up on the subject and got a point of view of the subject. However the bad news is and I have witnessed it first hand so I speak from my own experience that people being made redundant or unemployed from automation is a calculated risk that is factored into the equation. The overall cost savings from automation outweighs the disadvantage of job cuts and it is this cost saving that drives automation forward.
In comparison to you, yes that is probably true. It is due to the fact that I have spent most of my professional life studying and working amongst intellects that turns you into one. You will probably know more than I do on other non intellectual subjects as that is your area, so it really is dependent on what subjects you have studied or have experience on which makes you more knowledgeable. To non academics you simply come across as a know it all, that is expected and ignored by academics such as myself. It is a shame but it is a fact that some non academic people cannot converse, but then there is an element that can, those are the ones I address and not your type which is a shame really.
Dr Damon:
You will not be yawning soon fella. You mouth will be wide open in surprise.
Like a lot of others on here I feel you are unaware of the recent advancement of technology for transport possibly because it is not in the news everyday and the average joe bloggs is totally unaware for sure.
It is happening and a lot sooner than some think.
I am fully aware. I am aware that it currently does not work in snow or fog or very heavy rain and that there have been several occasions where it has come a cropper when there have been obscured road markings and things like temporary roadworks where traffic hasn’t behaved as per its algorithms and there have been accidents.
I am also fully aware that the truck trials have taken place in Nevada where the roads are long, straight, quite empty and the weather is usually sunny.
But unlike you it seems I actually understood the article. nVidia have created a specialised computer which is aimed at level 5 autonomy. What it hasn’t done is create reliable sensors and as equally if not more important, software which is able to drive a vehicle better than a human being. All that has happened here is that a company has produced a computer more compact than the systems currently being used in the trials, something which was always bound to happen but not something that progresses level 5 autonomy in a country such as ours.
Will it get there? Yes but not for a decade at least for this country.
Fantastic, fantasy, call it what you will, sorry but it is a sad fact of life. If technology was driven by people of your type we would still be living in caves and wheels would be square as the ones who really drive us forward are people like me. I suppose I have more of a wider angle of view and can converse with people of all different disciplines and degrees of intellect without prejudice of academic qualifications. You however think in terms of Tenerife and if someone outdoes you. There is a saying of learn to shoot someone who outdo you. This applies to you perfectly.
Dr Damon:
You will not be yawning soon fella. You mouth will be wide open in surprise.
Like a lot of others on here I feel you are unaware of the recent advancement of technology for transport possibly because it is not in the news everyday and the average joe bloggs is totally unaware for sure.
It is happening and a lot sooner than some think.
I am fully aware. I am aware that it currently does not work in snow or fog or very heavy rain and that there have been several occasions where it has come a cropper when there have been obscured road markings and things like temporary roadworks where traffic hasn’t behaved as per its algorithms and there have been accidents.
I am also fully aware that the truck trials have taken place in Nevada where the roads are long, straight, quite empty and the weather is usually sunny.
But unlike you it seems I actually understood the article. nVidia have created a specialised computer which is aimed at level 5 autonomy. What it hasn’t done is create reliable sensors and as equally if not more important, software which is able to drive a vehicle better than a human being. All that has happened here is that a company has produced a computer more compact than the systems currently being used in the trials, something which was always bound to happen but not something that progresses level 5 autonomy in a country such as ours.
Will it get there? Yes but not for a decade at least for this country.
I read an article in a Canadian trucking magazine that had interviewed the top bod on automation in the US/Can and he said the very same thing, they cannot get past inclement weather conditions especially snow, ice, freezing rain and fog.
He said they will eventualy overcome it but it could take 20-30yrs, it has been their biggest obstacle and at the moment no matter what they’ve tried, it don’t work.
IronEddie:
That’s a significant number and one the government would need to manage in some way. The fact these ramifications of automation are being studied proves it’s a legitimate concern. Not a dark ages view. Huge social changes will need to take place side by side with automation.
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The most interesting point to me reading the piece is the quote of what I really have already stated and I quote "In addition, legal and regulatory hurdles, organisational inertia and legacy systems will slow down the shift towards AI and robotics even where this becomes technically and economically feasible. And this may not be a bad thing if it gives existing workers and businesses more time to adapt to this brave new world,” he said.
Nice to see you have at least read up on the subject and got a point of view of the subject. However the bad news is and I have witnessed it first hand so I speak from my own experience that people being made redundant or unemployed from automation is a calculated risk that is factored into the equation. The overall cost savings from automation outweighs the disadvantage of job cuts and it is this cost saving that drives automation forward.
I consider myself lucky in so much as I’ve been in full time employment since I left school. Doing catering and I’m about to switch to driving. Don’t expect to get to retirement without being made redundant at least once. So I’ll ride out trucking until either I find a niche that doesn’t get automated or automation makes me redundant.
What worries me isn’t the automation. It’s that the state won’t support me to retrain or find otherwork. I think I could end up in limbo. To young to retire, to old to retrain into the work that my son will be better prepared for. And if those unemployment figures come true just finding a job will be incredibly difficult.
IronEddie:
That’s a significant number and one the government would need to manage in some way. The fact these ramifications of automation are being studied proves it’s a legitimate concern. Not a dark ages view. Huge social changes will need to take place side by side with automation.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
The most interesting point to me reading the piece is the quote of what I really have already stated and I quote "In addition, legal and regulatory hurdles, organisational inertia and legacy systems will slow down the shift towards AI and robotics even where this becomes technically and economically feasible. And this may not be a bad thing if it gives existing workers and businesses more time to adapt to this brave new world,” he said.
Nice to see you have at least read up on the subject and got a point of view of the subject. However the bad news is and I have witnessed it first hand so I speak from my own experience that people being made redundant or unemployed from automation is a calculated risk that is factored into the equation. The overall cost savings from automation outweighs the disadvantage of job cuts and it is this cost saving that drives automation forward.
I consider myself lucky in so much as I’ve been in full time employment since I left school. Doing catering and I’m about to switch to driving. Don’t expect to get to retirement without being made redundant at least once. So I’ll ride out trucking until either I find a niche that doesn’t get automated or automation makes me redundant.
What worries me isn’t the automation. It’s that the state won’t support me to retrain or find otherwork. I think I could end up in limbo. To young to retire, to old to retrain into the work that my son will be better prepared for. And if those unemployment figures come true just finding a job will be incredibly difficult.
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I wouldn’t worry too much over it as the transition period will be slow at first before it rapidly takes a hold. No one has a crystal ball that can predict how quickly it will happen, if you are sensible like you sound, you could plan your future for the long term in starting re training now, then you can limit your damage of impact from the technology.
Wouldn’t worry too much about predicted unemployment figures, numbers plucked from someones arse, the religious and cultural based wars to come will knock the number of working age drones back down, just as the last major wars did, and rebuilding whats left when the dust settles will see full employment again.
Whether those proles who survive will find the new utopia planned by the omnipotent to be as they have been led to believe for so long is another question altogether.
Before this happens, forget keep calm and carry on, the new mantra will be keep quiet and carry on, because as always the first victim of war is the truth
In comparison to you, yes that is probably true. It is due to the fact that I have spent most of my professional life studying and working amongst intellects that turns you into one.
No it doesn’t. That statement isn’t remotely true and holds no weight. If that statement were true that close exposure to something transforms you into that something then it would follow that everyone who worked at a software company including the janitor should be able to code to a decent level.
And just to prove the point…
UKtramp:
However the bad news is and I have witnessed it first hand so I speak from my own experience that people being made redundant or unemployed from automation is a calculated risk that is factored into the equation.
You go and post that illiterate bollox. May I suggest that you stop trying to convince people you’re an intellect until you’ve learnt basic sentence structure and punctuation? It is quite hard to form an argument when people can’t understand what the point you are trying to make is due to poor grammar.
That’s not helpful to Mr Damon’s cause CC. It is consistent with a segment I saw on tv, about 2 months ago, where a Swiss insurance company had commissioned some tests with driverless vehicles. In one scenario an oncoming vehicle was being overtaken & the driverless vehicle had a few options in its programming. Swerving right onto the path not taken ( pedesrtians). Left not taken ( oncoming vehicle) result - a head-on collision with the overtaking vehicle & predicted fatalities. No braking option used for some reason not explained in the tv segment.
Wiretwister:
That’s not helpful to Mr Damon’s cause CC. It is consistent with a segment I saw on tv, about 2 months ago, where a Swiss insurance company had commissioned some tests with driverless vehicles. In one scenario an oncoming vehicle was being overtaken & the driverless vehicle had a few options in its programming. Swerving right onto the path not taken ( pedesrtians). Left not taken ( oncoming vehicle) result - a head-on collision with the overtaking vehicle & predicted fatalities. No braking option used for some reason not explained in the tv segment.
Was that on bbc’s “click” programme? I saw it too. I actually referenced it on another thread here at the time.
If you have the time/inclination, try reading up on “the Chinese room” thought experiment. Fascinating stuff.
Wiretwister:
That’s not helpful to Mr Damon’s cause CC. It is consistent with a segment I saw on tv, about 2 months ago, where a Swiss insurance company had commissioned some tests with driverless vehicles. In one scenario an oncoming vehicle was being overtaken & the driverless vehicle had a few options in its programming. Swerving right onto the path not taken ( pedesrtians). Left not taken ( oncoming vehicle) result - a head-on collision with the overtaking vehicle & predicted fatalities. No braking option used for some reason not explained in the tv segment.
Was that on bbc’s “click” programme? I saw it too. I actually referenced it on another thread here at the time.
If you have the time/inclination, try reading up on “the Chinese room” thought experiment. Fascinating stuff.
Quite possibly, it was a weekend morning during the news. Thanks for the reading tip I’ll have to have a look.
Conor:
You go and post that illiterate bollox. May I suggest that you stop trying to convince people you’re an intellect until you’ve learnt basic sentence structure and punctuation? It is quite hard to form an argument when people can’t understand what the point you are trying to make is due to poor grammar.
I do not need to convince anyone off here and especially the likes of yourself who is simply sat on Google trying to convince anyone who would be remotely interested. Please do not quote rubbish to me, save that for someone who may fall for your ridiculous comments. I have worked in automation for over a decade, you have read about it for 5 mins. You are quite frankly no authority on anything other than pure drivel. I hold professional qualifications as well as hold an NVQ level 5 which places me in the top 3% of the country. If you would like to go head to head with me in the qualification stakes then I am more than willing to post my qualifications on here for all to see. Let us just hope you can do the very same thing to prove me wrong. I also hold an HND in software engineering just to add to my credentials. Please tell us what you have that you think holds water. A spell checker and Google I suspect… Prove me wrong! Just had to edit this in whilst we are on the subject, I also hold teaching qualifications and used to lecture at University, I do not lie and can prove anything that I say. Over to you.
