Hi - I have been driving 7.5tonners on my C1 Grandfather Rights for some time, and have had to pick most of my knowledge up on the job (see my post, viewtopic.php?f=5&t=111999), but little things keep cropping up that make me think ‘I must ask on UKT’ - so:
I was chatting to a class 1 driver at a depot the other day and he was saying that he has to go put his tacho card in, so it can start showing uo his vehicle check time, 15 mins for the tractor unit and 15 for the trailer - Should I be putting mine in on ‘other work’ for 15 mins also, before moving the 7.5 tonner off? ( I do check my lights, indicators, brakelights, load, tyres before every vehicle takeover, but it rarely takes me 15 mins - even if I add in the time taken for setting up my satnav, getting my flask and butties ready, etc…
I am doing my Cat C next month (6th-20th Sept), via the TA - as far as I am aware that hasn’t historically included any sort of CPC - the Agency I work through say they can squeeze me in to do some CPC training between now and then, but are there specific modules that I, as a new driver of Cat C will have to have by law? What should I be looking/asking for?
At our gaff, we’ve been told to make sure our tachos show at least 15mins other work before starting driving so vosa can see enough time has been spent doing daily checks etc on our rigids, I presume you are already showing your checks as other work, I’d deffo be giving it at least 10mins.
At the moment you have acquired rights for your C1 licence, so you’d need to do 35hrs CPC before 9th Sept to carry on driving professionally on C1. When you’re upgrading to a higher category (C) your acquired rights don’t count, you need to take the initial driver qualification, which means you need to do module 2 CPC case studies and also module 4 CPC practical exam on top of your LGV theory and practical. As for the periodic CPC to carry on driving your C1 professionally there are no specific modules to take, you can even take the same module 5 times and still get 35hrs for it.
There is no stated period for daily checks. Urban myth normally settles around 15 minutes. The reality is that you can probably check a familiar 7.5 tonner in 5 minutes perfectly well.
To drive any goods vehicle exceeding 3.5 tonnes from 10th Sept you will need to have completed any 35 hours of periodic training.
TJ_Timbo:
At our gaff, we’ve been told to make sure our tachos show at least 15mins other work before starting driving so vosa can see enough time has been spent doing daily checks etc on our rigids, I presume you are already showing your checks as other work, I’d deffo be giving it at least 10mins.
At the moment you have acquired rights for your C1 licence, so you’d need to do 35hrs CPC before 9th Sept to carry on driving professionally on C1. When you’re upgrading to a higher category (C) your acquired rights don’t count, you need to take the initial driver qualification, which means you need to do module 2 CPC case studies and also module 4 CPC practical exam on top of your LGV theory and practical. As for the periodic CPC to carry on driving your C1 professionally there are no specific modules to take, you can even take the same module 5 times and still get 35hrs for it.
Nonsense, acquired rights still count and anyone who has them will not even be able to book initial cpc, mods 2 and 4.
1968kg:
Nonsense, acquired rights still count and anyone who has them will not even be able to book initial cpc, mods 2 and 4.
oh bloody hell! Just when I though I had a definitive answer! - so, I will presumably, fingers crossed have my Cat C in the bag by 12th September - so…If I want to start driving professionally after the course, I can either wait until after I have the Cat C and do initial CPC, OR do a full 35 hours while I am still only C1?
Having read your OP properly, you cannot do Mods 2 and 4 (Initial cpc). You will not be able to drive after 9th September until you’ve completed 35 hours of Periodic Training.
There is no longer any such body called VOSA - it is now the DVSA.
This is not a pedantic point, but a legal one. The Vehicle Operators Standards Agency was government funded and primarily regulated Operators, with Drivers being part of that. The DVSA is self-funded and is aimed primarily at fining drivers, as this is their main source of income.
When they pull you - and they will - if you don’t show a period of other work before driving - you’re screwed. If your tacho is bluetooth enabled then they don’t even need to stop you to download the data - they can just follow you for a mile or so.
When you tick the boxes on the vehicle checks, or sign off on ‘nil defects’, you are assuming full legal responsibility for the legal roadworthiness of your vehicle - including the safety, security, axle weights etc. of your load.
Put your digicard /chart in the tacho, take as long as you need to check everything, and if in doubt - don’t take it out. Whatever bs the transport manager gives you - ask them to put it in writing that if you are pulled then he/she will accept full legal liability for any fine/detriment you may suffer for driving their shed of a lorry - up to and including loss of license and income.
If you think that 5 minutes ticking boxes is long enough to protect your license and livelihood, that’s up to you - but I usually take about 20 minutes to thoroughly check my vehicle and load.
If you think VOSA were bad - just wait until DVSA kick in on September 10th…Guess who is going to be paying all those £32k salaries and £8k bonuses?
From my understanding this grandfather rights, it runs out this year meaning that anyone who uses a vehicle over the 3.5t has to have complete 35hrs DCPC training and have a driver qualification card with them at all times…especially from the 9th September
If you haven’t completed the DCPC then its £1000 fine by the DVSA… or £60 if you have done the 35hrs require but don’t produce a card when requested…
Sounds like you need some guidance about vehicle checks, they certainly don’t take 5 mins like it has been suggested and would recommend you watch a few youtube videos on this subject to help you along…whilst this vehicle maybe familiar, I would conduct the same checks day in & day out… so it should take you a least 15 mins, thats without setting up sat navs etc etc
End of the day your licence and you’ll be the one that cops the fine…
carlbutler:
There is no longer any such body called VOSA - it is now the DVSA.
This is not a pedantic point, but a legal one. The Vehicle Operators Standards Agency was government funded and primarily regulated Operators, with Drivers being part of that. The DVSA is self-funded and is aimed primarily at fining drivers, as this is their main source of income.
I thought VOSA had been self funded for a couple of years now.
Thanks Carl and Swampy - Those last couple of posts were real food for thought.
FWIW, Carl - I rejected a vehicle two days ago on the basis of a worn tyre - the management were absolutely fine about it (to my face anyway) and ran me over to the garage where their other 7.5tonner had just finished its 6 week checks. I am aware of the legal responsibility I carry when I do the vehicle take-over checks - but I do find it difficult when I go to a vehicle that has been pre-loaded for me - how do I know the weight I am carrying? I am fairly sure that 7.5T is my total gross weight of vehicle plus load, but how do I know I am not over before pulling away?
Swampy - I will go look on Youtube for truck checks, thanks. ( I do a lot of youtube truck searching, but it tends to be to drool over things like ‘Renault Magnum Interior’ or ‘My New Actros Interior’, etc…)
If you think that 5 minutes ticking boxes is long enough to protect your license and livelihood, that’s up to you - but I usually take about 20 minutes to thoroughly check my vehicle and load.
I repeat that 5 minutes is ample to check a familiar 7.5 tonner. For interest, I timed a check on one of my very familiar 12 tonners. Managed to just make it last 5 minutes including completion of the tick sheet. And trust me, I know how to check a vehicle properly.
Conversely, give me a 44 tonne artic that I’d never seen before and now we may well be looking nearer 20 minutes.
What is important is that the driver is comfortable that he has done all his checks properly. And that will take as long as it takes.
There is no longer any such body called VOSA - it is now the DVSA.
This is not a pedantic point, but a legal one. The Vehicle Operators Standards Agency was government funded and primarily regulated Operators, with Drivers being part of that. The DVSA is self-funded and is aimed primarily at fining drivers, as this is their main source of income.
When they pull you - and they will - if you don’t show a period of other work before driving - you’re screwed. If your tacho is bluetooth enabled then they don’t even need to stop you to download the data - they can just follow you for a mile or so.
When you tick the boxes on the vehicle checks, or sign off on ‘nil defects’, you are assuming full legal responsibility for the legal roadworthiness of your vehicle - including the safety, security, axle weights etc. of your load.
Put your digicard /chart in the tacho, take as long as you need to check everything, and if in doubt - don’t take it out. Whatever bs the transport manager gives you - ask them to put it in writing that if you are pulled then he/she will accept full legal liability for any fine/detriment you may suffer for driving their shed of a lorry - up to and including loss of license and income.
If you think that 5 minutes ticking boxes is long enough to protect your license and livelihood, that’s up to you - but I usually take about 20 minutes to thoroughly check my vehicle and load.
If you think VOSA were bad - just wait until DVSA kick in on September 10th…Guess who is going to be paying all those £32k salaries and £8k bonuses?
That is terrible advice. No legal disclaimer can pass responsibility away from the driver for ensuring a vehicle is fit to be on the road.
It’s not just daily checks that needed to be recorded. Time spent in the office, chatting around the coffee machine, and filling out paperwork on a night is important too. Learn how to do manual entries, which your tacho will ask for every time you insert the card. You make an entry for the end of your previous shift and the start of this one.
If you pull your card at 1745, but by the time you get your gear together, lock up, debrief and hand in your keys, you book off at 1800 you should make a manual entry to cover that 15 minutes. Start at 0600, but it’s 0620 before you insert your card, a manual entry will cover that 20 mins…THEN do your checks
TJ_Timbo:
Nonsense, acquired rights still count and anyone who has them will not even be able to book initial cpc, mods 2 and 4.
I passed my car test in 09/86 & have C1 under acquired rights. Having done my theory & hazard perception, I was unable to book a CPC module 2 so I contacted Pearson Vue who contacted the DSA/DVLA/DVSA (?) on my behalf & after about 10 days they came back to me & I was given the option of 35 hours of CPC (before 10/9/14) OR do module 2 & module 4 - I chose the module 2 & 4 route & did the module 2 a month or so ago. I passed my class C practical driving test on 22/8/14 & I have my module 4 booked for 4/9/14.
I passed my car test in 09/86 & have C1 under acquired rights. Having done my theory & hazard perception, I was unable to book a CPC module 2 so I contacted Pearson Vue who contacted the DSA/DVLA/DVSA (?) on my behalf & after about 10 days they came back to me & I was given the option of 35 hours of CPC (before 10/9/14) OR do module 2 & module 4 - I chose the module 2 & 4 route & did the module 2 a month or so ago. I passed my class C practical driving test on 22/8/14 & I have my module 4 booked for 4/9/14.
Well that’s interesting. I was aware they’d introduced this barmy system for pre 97 licence holders going for D but never heard of it for C.
Anyway, congrats with your success so far. All the best, Pete
The only way a pre 97 driver can do mod 2 and 4 is if they hold a d1 with 101 restriction and they take the test to remove this - they can choose to do the practical test and mod2 & 4. If they’re a LGV licence holder, they must do the 35 hrs -
elmet training:
I made an enquiry today this is the response
The only way a pre 97 driver can do mod 2 and 4 is if they hold a d1 with 101 restriction and they take the test to remove this - they can choose to do the practical test and mod2 & 4. If they’re a LGV licence holder, they must do the 35 hrs -
Paul
What a dopey answer you got !
All D1s with a 101 code will have LGV C1
The answer I got from the hotline was - as all with D1 101 have LGV C1 then they have the choice of doing initial or periodic for PCV dcpc - that made more sense
