We have a regular job subcontracted to us that involves a 3am start to reach the delivery point, the reason we get it is the company we do it for are claiming that if the driver starts before 4am on the monday he is restricted to 10 hours a day (not including breaks and poa) for the rest of that week. I always thought the restriction was just in place for that shift.
Next is it possible to work two 10 hour drives on consecutive days. Again I always thought it was.
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
And lastly can you have a reduced rest of 9 hours do a 10 hour drive reduced rest of 9 hours then another 10 hour driving day followed by the final 9 hour reduced rest.
I don’t get involved in 10 hour drives or reduced rests but was just wondering.
I will attempt to answer this query but I am not an expert
vwgpmk2:
the company we do it for are claiming that if the driver starts before 4am on the monday he is restricted to 10 hours a day (not including breaks and poa) for the rest of that week. I always thought the restriction was just in place for that shift.
The night rules for those that do not have a collective workforce opt out agreement are that they can only do 10 hours of WORK (driving + other work) in the 24 hour period which starts at the end of the rest period before the start of the ‘night’ shift
Each 10 hour night WORK restriction ends after that 24 hour period so is only relevant for that 24 hour period
vwgpmk2:
Next is it possible to work two 10 hour drives on consecutive days. Again I always thought it was.
YUP - you are correct
vwgpmk2:
And lastly can you have a reduced rest of 9 hours do a 10 hour drive reduced rest of 9 hours then another 10 hour driving day followed by the final 9 hour reduced rest.
YUP - the driving rules are seperate from the rest rules - one does not have an impact on the other
vwgpmk2:
We have a regular job subcontracted to us that involves a 3am start to reach the delivery point, the reason we get it is the company we do it for are claiming that if the driver starts before 4am on the monday he is restricted to 10 hours a day (not including breaks and poa) for the rest of that week. I always thought the restriction was just in place for that shift.
The restriction on working time is in place for the 24 hour period from the start of shift unless there’s an opt out agreement in place, but there’s nothing I know of to stop you going from nights to days in the same week apart from the obvious question of whether or not it’s entirely practical.
vwgpmk2:
Next is it possible to work two 10 hour drives on consecutive days. Again I always thought it was.
And again you’re correct, there’s nothing in the regulations to stop you doing the two 10 hour drives on consecutive days.
vwgpmk2:
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
and again you’re correct, there’s nothing in the regulations to stop you doing two 10 hour drives on consecutive days with a reduced daily rest between the two shifts.
vwgpmk2:
And lastly can you have a reduced rest of 9 hours do a 10 hour drive reduced rest of 9 hours then another 10 hour driving day followed by the final 9 hour reduced rest.
Again yes you can do what you’re asking.
All the above answers are subject to the night time working regulations which state that unless there’s an opt out agreement in place you should only work for a maximum of 10 hours working time in the 24 hour period from the start of shift, so whilst you could do all of the above on days you would find it difficult on nights without a workforce agreement in place.
tachograph:
All the above answers are subject to the night time working regulations which state that unless there’s an opt out agreement in place you should only work for a maximum of 10 hours working time in the 24 hour period from the start of shift, so whilst you could do all of the above on days you would find it difficult on nights without a workforce agreement in place.
VOSA have stated that they cannot do RT(WTD)R checks at the roadside and neither I, or any of my contacts, have heard of one single case where VOSA, who have been given the task of checking the RT(WTD)R, have gone into a workplace and checked on a single driver…
Does anyone on here knows different
vwgpmk2:
We have a regular job subcontracted to us that involves a 3am start to reach the delivery point, the reason we get it is the company we do it for are claiming that if the driver starts before 4am on the monday he is restricted to 10 hours a day (not including breaks and poa) for the rest of that week. I always thought the restriction was just in place for that shift.
Next is it possible to work two 10 hour drives on consecutive days. Again I always thought it was.
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
And lastly can you have a reduced rest of 9 hours do a 10 hour drive reduced rest of 9 hours then another 10 hour driving day followed by the final 9 hour reduced rest.
I don’t get involved in 10 hour drives or reduced rests but was just wondering.
A good set of examples in the boxes explain the RTD do’s and dont’s
Yes you can have three 9 hour rest periods and two 10 hour driving periods back to back or any other permutation of them provided that you have 11 hours rest in any period of 24 which can be reduced etc. etc. etc.
tachograph:
All the above answers are subject to the night time working regulations which state that unless there’s an opt out agreement in place you should only work for a maximum of 10 hours working time in the 24 hour period from the start of shift, so whilst you could do all of the above on days you would find it difficult on nights without a workforce agreement in place.
Quite so - but who is checking?
As far as I know no-one’s doing road side checks on the WTD however if a company was investigated for any reason and it comes to light that the regulations were not complied with a prosecution could take place, the risk is small though
As the OPs 1st question was about night time working it seemed appropriate to mention that the replies I gave to the other questions were also subject to the same regulations
Many thanks for the replies, have printed them off and passed them on to the relevant person (Bosses son) who should know better as they have been in road haulage for over 30 years
vwgpmk2:
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
Not only is that possible it is also possible, and legal, to do 4 consecutive extended driving days. You could drive in excess of 9 hours on a Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for example., provided no other extended days had been driven prior to the Saturday.
we had a job similar to that where we had to park up at 3pm, and report for loading at 0200…so when i tipped and got back to the depot, i told our transport manager i had to finish by 12noon, to which he replied, no weve got an opt out of the 10 hr night time rules, so i said..well show me where i opted out, and well go along with that..failing that , ill stick to my 10 hrs…he didnt like that…cos when they ask the drivers to sign a paper to opt out…the idiots all did…but i was off sick…and i dont care about who signed or who didnt, the fact of the matter is i didnt…so i stick to my rules and not theirs…
How about . . . . . . . Me ? You ? Any driver that feels the need ?
How about we all realise, and bring to the attention of ‘some bosses’ the aim and purpose of 561/2006 and of the WTD (in any guise)
The issue is the confusion for many and the flexibility for others. Providing that 561/2006 is enforced, there should be no need for the RTD for a driver. Like the domestic rules are utilised for certain jobs, the RTD should be like that, simply as another net to catch the drivers who do not come under any other rules. A sales rep would be a good candidate for the RTD/WTD, 15 minutes break after 6 hours work to take a chill pill
I need to think who else would benefit. How about Scaffolders?
Labourer / Driver starts work at 7.30am to be on site for 8am. After two hours he returns to depot for some more poles, back on site just after 1pm to unload and helps to erect them. Driver has worked so far without a cup of tea. Without the RTD/WTD he wouldn’t get a break, but he doesn’t need one for the 561 rules. So in my example the RTD is now important. To him at least, it means he can have 15minute teabreak before half past one.
Meanwhile the driver who drives 3 hours to Dover, to catch a cross channel ferry, then drives down to Chalon is perfectly catered for with 561/2006 regulations taking a second 45 minute break around Reims.
It seems like a long rant, but honestly believe like the DCPC the RTD is an ill thought out plan without benefits to many long distance drivers.
Wheel Nut:
I need to think who else would benefit. How about Scaffolders?
Or multidrop drivers where there is little actual driving done in a shift
Wheel Nut:
Labourer / Driver starts work at 7.30am to be on site for 8am. After two hours he returns to depot for some more poles, back on site just after 1pm to unload and helps to erect them. Driver has worked so far without a cup of tea. Without the RTD/WTD he wouldn’t get a break, but he doesn’t need one for the 561 rules. So in my example the RTD is now important. To him at least, it means he can have 15minute teabreak before half past one.
In other words it would have been easier to add the 6 hour WORK bit into the EU regs - yes??
vwgpmk2:
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
Not only is that possible it is also possible, and legal, to do 4 consecutive extended driving days. You could drive in excess of 9 hours on a Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for example., provided no other extended days had been driven prior to the Saturday.
hi coffeeholic
I would have to say not you in fact would not have the time to do 1 10 hour drive ( I am stating the full ten hour drives hear) (I would say that its possible to extend you driving time into the ten hour period but not do ten hours driving ) if you start work at 3 am and have not workforce agreement in place,as we all know under the RTD work is also part of that 10 hours and you must be doing some work in that I.E. vehicle checks, loading, unloading paper work the list is endless so in fact a ten hour drive would never be possible on a night shift without a workforce agreement in place.
vwgpmk2:
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
Not only is that possible it is also possible, and legal, to do 4 consecutive extended driving days. You could drive in excess of 9 hours on a Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for example., provided no other extended days had been driven prior to the Saturday.
hi coffeeholic
I would have to say not you in fact would not have the time to do 1 10 hour drive ( I am stating the full ten hour drives hear) (I would say that its possible to extend you driving time into the ten hour period but not do ten hours driving ) if you start work at 3 am and have not workforce agreement in place,as we all know under the RTD work is also part of that 10 hours and you must be doing some work in that I.E. vehicle checks, loading, unloading paper work the list is endless so in fact a ten hour drive would never be possible on a night shift without a workforce agreement in place.
I didn’t mention doing full 10 hour drives Del. I carefully chose my words for that very reason and said ‘4 consecutive extended driving days’ and ‘You could drive in excess of 9 hours’ so at no point did I suggest you could do the full 10 hours driving in a night shift without an opt out agreement in place.
You could easily drive in excess of 9 hours on 4 consecutive night shifts and leave enough time for other work and still come within ten hours though.
This week I did two shifts where it was mostly driving and there was only 5 minutes of other work in one shift and 12 minutes in the other. Book on, 5 minutes for vehicle checks (I had only been parked for 9 hours and the vehicle was fine when I stopped so not much required in the way of checks), drive, break, drive, enter end country and start rest. The other shift was the same but there was 7 or 8 minutes while I got fuel that wasn’t in the first shift. There was no deliveries in ether shift and no paperwork to do.
The run I have done for the last 4 weeks and will be doing again this week consist of 44 - 45 hours total driving and about 3 - 4 hours total other work for the week so not all jobs have much in the way of other work in them.
vwgpmk2:
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
Not only is that possible it is also possible, and legal, to do 4 consecutive extended driving days. You could drive in excess of 9 hours on a Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for example., provided no other extended days had been driven prior to the Saturday.
hi coffeeholic
I would have to say not you in fact would not have the time to do 1 10 hour drive ( I am stating the full ten hour drives hear) (I would say that its possible to extend you driving time into the ten hour period but not do ten hours driving ) if you start work at 3 am and have not workforce agreement in place,as we all know under the RTD work is also part of that 10 hours and you must be doing some work in that I.E. vehicle checks, loading, unloading paper work the list is endless so in fact a ten hour drive would never be possible on a night shift without a workforce agreement in place.
I didn’t mention doing full 10 hour drives Del. I carefully chose my words for that very reason and said ‘4 consecutive extended driving days’ and ‘You could drive in excess of 9 hours’ so at no point did I suggest you could do the full 10 hours driving in a night shift without an opt out agreement in place.
You could easily drive in excess of 9 hours on 4 consecutive night shifts and leave enough time for other work and still come within ten hours though.
This week I did two shifts where it was mostly driving and there was only 5 minutes of other work in one shift and 12 minutes in the other. Book on, 5 minutes for vehicle checks (I had only been parked for 9 hours and the vehicle was fine when I stopped so not much required in the way of checks), drive, break, drive, enter end country and start rest. The other shift was the same but there was 7 or 8 minutes while I got fuel that wasn’t in the first shift. There was no deliveries in ether shift and no paperwork to do.
vwgpmk2:
Assuming the answer to the above is yes can you do 2 10 hours drives on consecutive days with a 9 hour reduced rest between?
Not only is that possible it is also possible, and legal, to do 4 consecutive extended driving days. You could drive in excess of 9 hours on a Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for example., provided no other extended days had been driven prior to the Saturday.
hi coffeeholic
I would have to say not you in fact would not have the time to do 1 10 hour drive ( I am stating the full ten hour drives hear) (I would say that its possible to extend you driving time into the ten hour period but not do ten hours driving ) if you start work at 3 am and have not workforce agreement in place,as we all know under the RTD work is also part of that 10 hours and you must be doing some work in that I.E. vehicle checks, loading, unloading paper work the list is endless so in fact a ten hour drive would never be possible on a night shift without a workforce agreement in place.
I didn’t mention doing full 10 hour drives Del. I carefully chose my words for that very reason and said ‘4 consecutive extended driving days’ and ‘You could drive in excess of 9 hours’ so at no point did I suggest you could do the full 10 hours driving in a night shift without an opt out agreement in place.
You could easily drive in excess of 9 hours on 4 consecutive night shifts and leave enough time for other work and still come within ten hours though.
This week I did two shifts where it was mostly driving and there was only 5 minutes of other work in one shift and 12 minutes in the other. Book on, 5 minutes for vehicle checks (I had only been parked for 9 hours and the vehicle was fine when I stopped so not much required in the way of checks), drive, break, drive, enter end country and start rest. The other shift was the same but there was 7 or 8 minutes while I got fuel that wasn’t in the first shift. There was no deliveries in ether shift and no paperwork to do.
hi mate i did say that
You did but you quoted my post and implied I was wrong to give that answer when I clearly wasn’t. He asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer, don’t go all ROG now your back and start adding stuff that isn’t there or required into the discussions again.
Coffeeholic:
You did but you quoted my post and implied I was wrong to give that answer when I clearly wasn’t. He asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer, don’t go all ROG now your back and start adding stuff that isn’t there or required into the discussions again.
OK mate your right again sticking my nose in it as usual, thought I like to make you day and give you a chance to pick on me instead of ROG as I know you must of missed my mistakes lately
