Winseer:
tachograph:
skoowif:
They said the congestion charge would be unworkable, and that worked…■■? are you sure!!!
i think you’ll find theres £millions owed by forign lorry company’s for the congestion charge who’ll
never pay up…
John
skids:
I am more worried by how long it will take to implement any system. It would be too simple for a truck to buy the tax at the passport control. It would have to be done online by the hauliers and then enforced by ANPR cameras IMO.WDYT?
Or just join the Euro vignete
Immigrant:
skids:
I am more worried by how long it will take to implement any system. It would be too simple for a truck to buy the tax at the passport control. It would have to be done online by the hauliers and then enforced by ANPR cameras IMO.WDYT?
Or just join the Euro vignete
Theres no point in joining the vignette as its such a small amount(8 euro/day) is already shared by 5 countries so th uk’s share would be ■■■■ all
It is still within the planning and talking stage but the technology is available, simplify it like a Go Box and introduce rebated Blue Diesel which can only be bought by holders of a UK operators licence.
If a car is found with blue diesel, arrest him for theft or tax evasion 
there is an idea that we as UK hauliers are badly done to abroad when in fact we pay exactly the same tolls, taxes and vignettes as the home market. The big difference is their fuel duty.
There is a comparison site somewhere which shows the price of excise duty compared to the rest of the EU. I will try to find it again. But what it shows is that many of the foreigners are worse off because they pay road tax on their registered trailers too whereas we don’t have any extra.
The simplest way that has been muted is a Vignette sold on the ferry. I suggest when you go back to a port that vignette could be entered onto the system which would then work out how many days / tenners the haulier has to pay. Payment accepted by fuel card or cash. If you are caught in the UK without a vignette, the penalty is confiscation or £1000
Kerbdog:
Actually, you can limit the amount that you bring in, somebody on here will help me out with this one, but there are some regs that only allow you to have a certain amount of fuel when you board a ship. Not sure what is is though. If they said £10 then I may have mis-quoted on the £2 (only heard the story once and turned radio up as I realised what they were talking about). No matter what happens, they should be charged and NOT the UK trucks, never mind reimbursing the cost. We have to pay for a tax disc when we get over there, they should do the same over here
Think it is about 1500 ltrs after that I think it screws you under ADR regs so bit of a no go as you could work all week.
if I may give you a foreigners view,
I wouldn’t have a problem with paying whatever fee the government introduce for road usage seeing as under EU laws it will be paid by all trucks, even all those british trucks that never leave dear old blighty will have to pay. it means that the UK government will get more money off UK hauliers as they already pay road tax and they won’t be willing to give any money back.
it will also stop the regular (on here at least) the calls from the unenlightened about “unfair taxes as UK trucks pay twice” well it might surprise some that us johnny foreigners pay just the same as the brits do. every truck in the vignette country has to pay as well as the visiting trucks, every truck on a peage has to pay local and visiting. now before you all shout about UK road tax well in spain not only do we have to pay road tax to the local government for our trucks we also have to pay for the trailer as it is a registered vehicle too, i think the dutch also have to pay tax as well as the vignette.
now onto fuel, i agree that the UK fuel duty makes it harder for UK hauliers to compete but some of the comments above seem a bit daft, if it were legal to limit fuel like the germans used to then the brits would be limited as well and UK hauliers who visit the EU are fully entitled to buy diesel at the same price as everybody else.
be careful what you wish for as the tories just want your money to pay off the labour debt for supporting millions of dole scrounging chavs over the past 14 years
The last convoy I went on, the price of diesel in EU was mostly comparable to the UK; in some countries (NL in particular), it was more expensive than the UK.
As for how a £10 charge compares, it’s about equivalent to the Hungarian vignette (3000 Forint = £9 approx per day), but much cheaper than the Austrian Go-Box if you’re covering long distances in a day - a one-way trip to cross from Passau to Vienna is just under €150 (for a truck with 4 or more axles, Euro3 or less). I don’t know how it compares to the German Maut, because we don’t pay it (we’re exempt).
alamcculloch:
Why not make British vehicles exempt from paying tolls on European mainland roads instead? My system would be easier to implement.
thats not as daft as it sounds in 2009 i went to russia along with 11 other trucks 2 of which were belgian regisered they had to pay russian road tax but as the uk didnt charge foriners we never had to pay 
And they’re on about cameras like ANPR to monitor the foreign trucks. All the foreign trucks will do is skip the country without paying like some of the drivers do when they commit offences, never to be seen again.
Howabout they pay online/on the ferry/train for ■■ days, the ‘disc’ is put in the window, and if they stay longer, they have to pay on exit for the extra days? This can be monitored at the ports quite easily by staff who make them pay the balance, and if they refuse, they are prevented from travelling until they do. And while the truck is still on these shores because a truck owner refuses to pay, the daily charge continues to mount up. You could even have different coloured discs for each day a truck enters the country (Much like the bread companies used to have different colours for which day the bread was made years ago.) so spotting will be easier.
Whatever the government decide to do, if it is implemented, then it’s about bloody time.
Ken.
CRAIG-D:
alamcculloch:
Why not make British vehicles exempt from paying tolls on European mainland roads instead? My system would be easier to implement.thats not as daft as it sounds in 2009 i went to russia along with 11 other trucks 2 of which were belgian regisered they had to pay russian road tax but as the uk didnt charge foriners we never had to pay
maybe thats because russia not in the EU?
if the UK trucks didn’t have to pay why should the rest of us have to pay?
As others have said, introducing a foreigner-only tax would probably be against EU free market rules.
Whilst musing on this subject a few months ago, I did wonder whether the UK could introduce a per-day tax that each truck has to pay (using a vignette system), but that hauliers could get “credits” towards their tax by buying UK-taxed fuel. That way, any foreign truck would be able to get the same “advantage” as a UK-based truck by buying fuel in the UK, and therefore it wouldn’t be anti-competitive.
I’m not sure how it would be administered, though; they might need to introduce some kind of card reader in every filling station in the UK, which would be expensive, and they’d have to be careful to ensure that hauliers who have their own fuel dumps couldn’t abuse the system. Maybe it could be administered using fuel card systems.
In fact, they don’t even have to go to those lengths. From the BBC article:
Drivers of lorries weighing more than 38 tonnes would pay £10 a day, or £1,000 a year.
So, if your truck is 38 tonnes or over, you pay £10 per day or £1000 per year. If they reduce the UK road tax by £1000, then it’s no different to the current situation for most UK hauliers, as most trucks over 38 tonnes pay at least £1000 per year. For lower-weighted vehicles it could be a lower rate, again so that UK hauliers don’t see an increase.
Most foreign vignette systems are cheaper if you buy longer periods, so there’s already a precedent for that.
As for catching the dodgers - use the same system as in Hungary. You don’t get a vignette sticker any more, you just get a receipt (paper or electronic), and your reg number is added to a database. There is a vignette checkpoint here on the Northbound M5, about 50 km south of Budapest. All trucks have to slow down to 50 km/h and pull in; an ANPR camera checks your reg number and the sign then either directs you back onto the motorway or into the parking area to have your knuckles rapped. If it can’t recognise the reg number (because the plate is too dirty for example), it pulls you in to check you out. Put that system on the various ports, and if the truck has been in the country without paying, they get pulled. Could also be integrated with the UK’s existing ANPR system, so that dodgers can be caught around the country.
Quinny:
And they’re on about cameras like ANPR to monitor the foreign trucks. All the foreign trucks will do is skip the country without paying like some of the drivers do when they commit offences, never to be seen again.Howabout they pay online/on the ferry/train for ■■ days, the ‘disc’ is put in the window, and if they stay longer, they have to pay on exit for the extra days? This can be monitored at the ports quite easily by staff who make them pay the balance, and if they refuse, they are prevented from travelling until they do. And while the truck is still on these shores because a truck owner refuses to pay, the daily charge continues to mount up. You could even have different coloured discs for each day a truck enters the country (Much like the bread companies used to have different colours for which day the bread was made years ago.) so spotting will be easier.
Whatever the government decide to do, if it is implemented, then it’s about bloody time.
Ken.
That would make sense that they can’t leave the country until a road charge bill was paid this could be used to make sure any parking tickets congestion charge and lez fines.
Perhaps uk hauliers could claim it back with the vat.
The technical problem seems to be how to only charge for days on the road. Willi Betz could spend 3 days in a layby waiting for a load - would he have to pay for that? There must be loads of british trucks not actually on the road on any day of the week.
Easyest to charge for all days in the country.
The fact that they’re sat for 3 days isn’t the governments problem. That’s the fault of the company who own the truck, and perhaps it might even discourage parking up and waiting for a load.
As an addendum to my earlier reply…
Placing barcodes on the ‘disc’ and having the barcode read as it goes through customs, will determine when they ‘disc’ was issued, meaning less chance of evasion. As was also said by KR79, it would also help those that try to avoid the congetion charge and LEZ.
Ken.
Quinny:
The fact that they’re sat for 3 days isn’t the governments problem. That’s the fault of the company who own the truck, and perhaps it might even discourage parking up and waiting for a load.As an addendum to my earlier reply…
Placing barcodes on the ‘disc’ and having the barcode read as it goes through customs, will determine when they ‘disc’ was issued, meaning less chance of evasion. As was also said by KR79, it would also help those that try to avoid the congetion charge and LEZ.
Ken.
I’ve already stated it’s a good idea but some comments are very UK biased, like parking up nor the governments problem! So you wouldn’t mind if UK trucks pay for the days they are parked up waiting abroad? Pay for the days they don’t drive? Getting a bit silly now everybody pays for everyday they drive and all’s fair
Naturally as this is a UK based forum, you would expect it to contain a lot of UK opinions, and that’s life, as the UK haulage industry has been shafted by Europe for years.
You wouldn’t expect any British company/driver to defend what Europe has been doing, would you?
Ken.
Quinny:
Naturally as this is a UK based forum, you would expect it to contain a lot of UK opinions, and that’s life, as the UK haulage industry has been shafted by Europe for years.You wouldn’t expect any British company/driver to defend what Europe has been doing, would you?
Ken.
no i wouldn’t expect any different but i would expect some members to have a bit of intelligence when it comes to europe, you being one of them, i thought you did removals in europe?
it seems that you and others want johnny foreigner to pay, ok no problem, but then you want them to pay for things like parking up (which brits do abroad), fuel tax in the UK as opposed to cheaper fuel (which brits buy abroad) and road tax which brits pay in the UK but so do (to my knowledge) the dutch and the spanish so the brits should get free transit around europe but not everybody else 
like i said in an earlier post road user charge paid by all is fair but it seems like what you really want is more off the foreigner than the brits pay abroad. if you are fed up of the foreigners ruining everything (like i was) its time to leave and tell cameron to ditch the EU maybe then you can kick out the plastic russians and get your country back 
Not me with the removals old boy.
Ken.
Quinny:
Not me with the removals old boy.Ken.
oh well sorry thought you used to do removals. maybe that explains why you want so much back without realising what the brits do abroad is just the same as what the foreigners do in the UK? parking up, buying cheap fuel, not paying taxes unless on a toll road (you have those in the UK you know 
)
just think of all the UK firms who have never been across the water might now have to pay an extra charge to the UK government for the pleasure of using the roads they already pay road tax for just to satisfy those who think that johnny foreigner is to blame for all the wrongs in the world
I have just read the Department for Transport consultation document which really does cover most points raised on these forums. I am for it after seeing that, it will be a road tax based system for UK hauliers while the others have to pay before they come into the country, much like the Eurovignette.
One advantage to the UK International operator, it is proposed to drop the VED from £1200 to £560 but the actual amount paid would still be £1200, the difference being paid to the charging scheme. So a UK haulier who spends a lot of the time out of the country should be able to pay by the day.
The system will be worked by a private company who will hold an accessible database for VOSA and the Police. Fines, impounding until payment of the road tax is made, can be enforced at the roadside. It will be an electronic system without a windscreen sticker, much like the vignette in Benelux
A vehicle could be stopped if it had not paid a charge, and not allowed to proceed until the charge, as well as an on-the-spot fine, was paid. This approach to enforcement is possible only if there is a requirement to pay road user charges before using the UK road network, rather than after the event.
