Can someone please clarify the 60 hour week rule in the WTD.
Can you add P.O.A and breaks onto the 60 hours, or does it have to include all P.O.A and breaks. 
Kev
We sat in the training room for 2 hours yesterday concerning the wtd
so dont ask me i havent got a clue 
seriously tho poa and breaks dont count towards working time and your max.60 hours a week is only working time
if im wrong someone correct me
thanks
The Hillarious thing with the WTD is as follows:
Breaks and Periods of availabilities are exempt from your 48 hr week, so in effect if you pull into an RDC and they say, sorry drive but theres 1 hr delay, you’ve got 2 options
- You can switch to P.O.A and the 1 hr is not counted towards your working week, if you’ve driven say 3 hrs 45 mins then once you end the P.O.A. you can drive for 45 minutes then take a 45 minute rest period which again is exempt from your 48 hrs working week total
OR
- You can switch to Break for 1 hr which is exempt from your 48 hrs working week total and then you will start a new 4.5 hr driving period at the end of it.
You MUST NOT do any work whilst treating it as a break
Then of course you could arrive at the RDC fully aware of a 1 hr delay in advance and still put your tacho on rest which then exempts it from the 48 hr week total providing you are not working whilst having the break
So really it’s such a load of [zb] that it really just pays you to switch to break whilst your waiting which will inevitably take the stress off you by not having to worry about taking a 45 minute break after your P.O.A has finished 
The 48 Hrs is made up wholly of Driving and Other Work Only
The 60 Hrs is made up wholly of Driving and Other Work Only but remember, if you reach 60 hrs then thats 12 hours compensation you owe and has to be repaid before the end of the 17 - 26 week period, whichever your employer elected to use.
just a thought, if you run your tacho on rest full time as a lot of people do (automatic tacho), once you’ve recorded your minimum breaks would the rest of the period recorded automatically become a p.o.a?
What the **** is wrong with the government over there ?
The French and the Germans, who first installed the WTD and the Euro now have Europe’s worst two ecconomies and want to scrap the WTD because it has caused higher unemployment 
STILL Tony and his team want both to happen
The World still sets it’s ecomomy and exchange rate initially on the rate for Stirling (the pound for the un-educated).
GET THE HELL OUT OF EUROPE
Pat the WTD in it’s Original form was a worthwhile cause, in a bid to ensure workers were not being made to work excessive hours for pathetic money.
It’s not wholly the Government who has made the WTD the laughing stock it is, it is the RHA and FTA etc who have pushed for these Periods of Availabilities etc.
Yes the EU Government gave into them by allowing them the POA’s etc but what was initially going to be introduced as a benefit for the worker has now been turned into a laughing stock
Davey Driver:
Pat the WTD in it’s Original form was a worthwhile cause, in a bid to ensure workers were not being made to work excessive hours for pathetic money.It’s not wholly the Government who has made the WTD the laughing stock it is, it is the RHA and FTA etc who have pushed for these Periods of Availabilities etc.
Yes the EU Government gave into them by allowing them the POA’s etc but what was initially going to be introduced as a benefit for the worker has now been turned into a laughing stock
Would it really have been a real benefit for the majority of truck drivers though? If the limit was 48 hours per week full stop I dont think it’d mean anything other than the average driver being bored pooless in some lay-by alot longer than he does now and probably been weekended mid-to late week in the opposite end of the country…not at home having time off because most drivers, contrary to the belief of politicians, do not do A to B to A trunking work that can be predicted. So as a result, most drivers would find themselves stranded in god knows where, with nothing to do and nowhere to go because his 48 hours are up and he’s 300 miles from home with a container thats got to be back in Felixtowe before he can go in any sort of home direction, which then he wont be able to because he’ll be on his next weekly stint…and thats before we even mention the continental drivers…I wish the people who think of these things would wake up and realise not all drivers deliver for Tesco’s or B&Q. This industry cannot work around such short weekly hours, its just not feasble for the vast majority of the haulage industry.
I pull up at ASDA Dartford yesterday. Their’s going to be a bit of a wait drive.
Any idea how long?
Dunno, couldn’t say.
You obviousley havn’t twigged this working time directive yet .
What’s that then 
.
This new 48 hour thing.
Ah .
If you give me a time that you think I may be waiting, then it’s a POA. If not, then I’m sat on working time and that’s limited to 48 hours, anything after the time you give me will be considered working time. Not that it’s come in yet, the powers that be have made another u-turn on it.
She laughs Oh, er, around about three hours mate.
Thanks. That gives me some leeway now. You not been asked that before?
No, you’r the first one.
Least you know now then. Thanks again 
.
Turned out to be just over 3 hours. With 35 min to tip a full load and â– â– â– â– â– â– â– about with paperwork etc, actual working time would have been about 50min. The rest was either a 45min break or POA.
Your driving time is working time too. So is anything else. If their were no POA’s, then it’d all be trailer swaps, if we were running to the max driving hours , and we wouldn’t be using the extra driving hour twice a week. Someone hasn’t thought it through properly .
Cheers
Ian.
Stupid RHA/FTA wanted training to NOT count as working time aswell.
You must be [zb] [zb] joking, you [zb] [zb] [zb].
Can you imagine a weeks CPC or ADR course? I am NOT doing an 8 hour training course during the day, then going out to drive and then coming back in the morning bright and early for another 8 hours training.
Kiss my shiny white [zb]. Though if they had it their way, I wouldn’t have time to shower.
Davey Driver:
The Hillarious thing with the WTD is as follows:Breaks and Periods of availabilities are exempt from your 48 hr week, so in effect if you pull into an RDC and they say, sorry drive but theres 1 hr delay, you’ve got 2 options
- You can switch to P.O.A and the 1 hr is not counted towards your working week, if you’ve driven say 3 hrs 45 mins then once you end the P.O.A. you can drive for 45 minutes then take a 45 minute rest period which again is exempt from your 48 hrs working week total
OR
- You can switch to Break for 1 hr which is exempt from your 48 hrs working week total and then you will start a new 4.5 hr driving period at the end of it.
You MUST NOT do any work whilst treating it as a breakThen of course you could arrive at the RDC fully aware of a 1 hr delay in advance and still put your tacho on rest which then exempts it from the 48 hr week total providing you are not working whilst having the break
So really it’s such a load of [zb] that it really just pays you to switch to break whilst your waiting which will inevitably take the stress off you by not having to worry about taking a 45 minute break after your P.O.A has finished
The 48 Hrs is made up wholly of Driving and Other Work Only
The 60 Hrs is made up wholly of Driving and Other Work Only but remember, if you reach 60 hrs then thats 12 hours compensation you owe and has to be repaid before the end of the 17 - 26 week period, whichever your employer elected to use.
the above would be fine, except 2 of my agencies have contacted me to advise their system of operation with POA and so on - within which they won’t pay any time spent on break, on the tacho, so if doing a job without a defined set day of going here, there and there doing this and that - but instead doing this, ring in for next job, it’s a case of pull up and use POA and take break as late as you can for as short as you can and carry on - just in case the expected POA shifts and you end up getting going and no back-load gets phoned through so may get back to base without needing a break as you might only do 4hr 25m so they advise always stick it on available when possible and not getting break out of the way to maximise earnings on jobs where the next drop or collection is given on the fly.
all a big pain in the arse.
I can see that if hourguard people made a CD to go in laptops or download onto PDAs with a predictor in it, that they’d sell loads cos drivers would be able to sync their hourguard on the fly with it, tap into the predictor the expected pattern for the rest of the shift (i.e. how long to wait, how long to load, how long to drive back) and let the predictor say whether it’d be better to wodge it on break or not.
el gordo 78:
I can see that if hourguard people made a CD to go in laptops or download onto PDAs with a predictor in it, that they’d sell loads cos drivers would be able to sync their hourguard on the fly with it, tap into the predictor the expected pattern for the rest of the shift (i.e. how long to wait, how long to load, how long to drive back) and let the predictor say whether it’d be better to wodge it on break or not.
Unfortunately as the Predictor would be used for RDC’s nothing could be accurate Lol
The new Hour Guard underway will store all the times as it currently does with the addition of an extra button for the POA Times, once the data is downloaded in CSV format it will sharp itemise all the delay times for you perhaps someone could develop a program to predict the waiting times from that
perhaps someone could develop a program to predict the waiting times from that
well have you davie
kitkat:
[
well have you davie
In a simple one worded answer 
NO
But anyone with time on their hands is welcome to
Davey Driver:
kitkat:
[
well have you davieIn a simple one worded answer
But anyone with time on their hands is welcome to
well in a two word simple reply…why not
and as your a man of leisure being your own boss i’m sure you’v got plenty of time on your hands.so let us know when you get it sorted for us hard working truckers ( don’t laugh to much now)
Dapper Scavenger:
Stupid RHA/FTA wanted training to NOT count as working time aswell.
GET THIS THOUGH…
I’m off sick for a week on Monday. Even though I’m NOT WORKING, its counted as a 48 hour working week . Likewise when you’re on Holiday.
Only the RHA and FTA combined with this nanny-state government could come up with something as ridiculous and unworkable as this tripe legislation.
Who are these morons who are looing out for our best interestsâ– â– ? I sincerely hope they are reading this thread you â– â– â– â– â– â– â– muppets!!! Not only are you imposing extra work on us having to work out all this and digest this tripe, you are effectively capping our wages to an average 48 hour working week, no matter how long or short the reference period. This is fine and dandy if you are salaried driver who originally did 60+ hours because the wages cannot be cut now he only has to work 48. But what about those of us who are paid by the hourâ– â– ? If you had a brain between you, I would be very scared.
Also I was led to believe that POAs are where you are not working, and according to the legislation if you are not working you cannot be paid for this time, fat lot of good POAs are then? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
my agency man power pay full hourly rate for all poas and have informed me of the wtd with reference to breaks 30mins after 6 hours work as i rearly drive for more than 4 hours a day on this contract at the mo so that helps me