Hi Folks, Needing to get my head round this, I know its been asked before on here, just done a quick search and couldn’t find anything explaining it.
What I need to know and understand is what the rules and regulations are regarding working 2x6 day weeks in a row
I worked Sunday to Friday last week, and have been asked to do the same again this week, Sun-Thurs with overtime on the Friday. The office staff say I’m able to do it, but I like to know for myself, rather than relying on someone else as its my ■■■ on the line at the end of the day!!!
Is there anyone who could explain this to me or post a link to previous threads or some dark corner of DVSA website or where ever this kind of info is kept?
You MUST start a weekly rest no later than sat 17.45
You MUST start a regular 45+ weekly rest no later than 23.59 on sunday
The number of shifts is of no concern for the regs - the max 144 hours between weekly rests is
The rule where at least a 45 rest must be taken at least every other week is also a concern
You didn’t work a six day week. Starting 22:15 Sunday means you could work to 22:15 Saturday - that’d be six days (144 hours). You may have worked on six calendar days but you didn’t work six ‘days’
As Rog has said - as long as a 45h+ regular weekly rest starts before 23:59 Sunday you’re OK.
Basically you must not work more than 6 consecutive 24 hour periods (144 hours) from the end of one weekly rest to the start of another and any two consecutive fixed weeks (00:01 Monday to 23:59 Sunday) must contain at least 2 weekly rest periods of which at least 1 is 45h+
I am in general agreement with ROG that you can do this if you take a minimum of 45 hours weekly break before the end of the Sunday following your last Friday shift.
Assuming you have had a regular weekly break before you started on the first Monday of your schedule.
Firstly you need to consider fixed weeks which are 00.00 Monday to 24.00 Sunday.
Assuming you comply with the maximum 56 hour per week and 90 hours per fortnight driving limits it is possible to do 2 x 6 days shifts consecutively.
You have to take at least one standard weekly rest (45 hours) and one reduced rest (24 to 45 hours) in two consecutive ‘fixed’ weeks. Weekly rests that straddle fixed weeks may be counted in either week but not both.
From your work times you have taken a reduced rest of 25 hours in the first fixed week but you can count the rest of that break taken in the second fixed week as a week 1 break giving the week 1 break of 42.75 hours.
Your last Friday shift that starts at 18.30 needs to be completed by 03.00 Saturday so that you can take a regular weekly break before the second fixed week closes at 24.00 Sunday.
If you finish at 03.00 on the Saturday your consecutive fixed weeks will have a reduced break of 42.75 hours in week 1 and a regular weekly break of 45 hours in week 2 and you will need to compensate for the reduced break in week 1 by 24.00 Sunday of week 3.
shake:
and you will need to compensate for the reduced break in week 1 by 24.00 Sunday of week 3.
Nonsense, he has an extra week to compensate for it. Third week FOLLOWING the reduction.
Regardless of that he’s already compensated for it. He’s having 12+ hours rest every day so pick any of the daily rest periods in week 2 and the 2.25 hours have been compensated for.
Week one - 6 days work 24 hours weekly rest
Week two - 6 days work 45 hours weekly rest (ending on 23:59)
Week three - 6 days work 24 hours weekly rest
Week four - 6 days work 45 hours weekly rest
So I can work 6 days every week, as long as I’ve had the required weekly rest, 24+ or 45+ hours a week? Driving hours are not a issue, lucky if I’ve ever done more that 30 driving hours per week in this job, as a lot of it it emptying cages and pallets.
Or is it ok if I have my 45 hours rest between finishing on Friday night and the start of my next shift, or have I got to have completed my 45 or 24 hours by the end of the working week 23:59?
Weekly rests do not have to ‘fit into’ the fixed week (mon 0000 to sun 2400) but they must be at least 1 minute in a fixed week to be used for that week
Each fixed week known as week for the regs must have a weekly rest used for it
There must not be more than 144 hours between weekly rests
I think there is a general misunderstanding by many drivers (and transport managers) because of the way the regulations are written.
This is what written in the VOSA publication on Drivers hours
Weekly rest periods
A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period.
6 x 24 hours is 144 hours, but it gets misinterpreted as a maximum of 6 days work or 6 shifts before starting a weekly rest.
ROG:
Weekly rests do not have to ‘fit into’ the fixed week (mon 0000 to sun 2400) but they must be at least 1 minute in a fixed week to be used for that week
Each fixed week known as week for the regs must have a weekly rest used for it
There must not be more than 144 hours between weekly rests
So If I am starting on Monday at 17:00 as long as I’ve had 45 hours off by then, and at least one minute of it is before 23:59 on Sunday night it’s all good?
Starting at 17:00 on Monday, 144 hours (17:00 Sunday) from then I must have a weekly rest of 24 or 45 hours?
And 6 days every week is possible if the 144 rule is met, and the 24+ or 45+ weekly rests are taken?
I think there is a general misunderstanding by many drivers (and transport managers) because of the way the regulations are written.
This is what written in the VOSA publication on Drivers hours
Weekly rest periods
A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period.
6 x 24 hours is 144 hours, but it gets misinterpreted as a maximum of 6 days work or 6 shifts before starting a weekly rest.
Does that make it any clearer?
Yes, I think I’m starting to get the hang of this. Bit like the mass misinterpretation of the 6 hour - half an hour rule.
Here is an example which really stretches the legal limits
Finish a regular weekly rest at 12 noon on sunday (for the week ending today at 2400) with no payback owing from any previous reduced weekly rests
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Reduced weekly rest from sat 1200 to sun 1200 (for the week ending today at 2400) = 21 hours to payback before sunday 2400 in 3 weeks time
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Regular weekly rest from sat 1200 to mon 0900 (for the week ending sunday at 2400)
start mon 0900
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 0900 on sunday - That is 144 hours since mon 0900
Reduced weekly rest may be taken at this point but there is still the 21 hours payback owing from 2 weeks ago which must be paid back in full before next sunday 2400 so its time to think about how that is going to happen …
As you can see by this example the driver has actually worked on all 7 days of the week for 2 weeks in a row
ROG:
Here is an example which really stretches the legal limits
Finish a regular weekly rest at 12 noon on sunday (for the week ending today at 2400) with no payback owing from any previous reduced weekly rests
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Reduced weekly rest from sat 1200 to sun 1200 (for the week ending today at 2400) = 21 hours to payback before sunday 2400 in 3 weeks time
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Regular weekly rest from sat 1200 to mon 0900 (for the week ending sunday at 2400)
start mon 0900
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 0900 on sunday - That is 144 hours since mon 0900
Reduced weekly rest may be taken at this point but there is still the 21 hours payback owing from 2 weeks ago which must be paid back in full before next sunday 2400 so its time to think about how that is going to happen …
As you can see by this example the driver has actually worked on all 7 days of the week for 2 weeks in a row
Yes, I was with you until you mentioned 21 hours to be paid back, What does this mean? How did he end up owing 21 hours?
ROG:
Here is an example which really stretches the legal limits
Finish a regular weekly rest at 12 noon on sunday (for the week ending today at 2400) with no payback owing from any previous reduced weekly rests
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Reduced weekly rest from sat 1200 to sun 1200 (for the week ending today at 2400) = 21 hours to payback before sunday 2400 in 3 weeks time
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Regular weekly rest from sat 1200 to mon 0900 (for the week ending sunday at 2400)
start mon 0900
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 0900 on sunday - That is 144 hours since mon 0900
Reduced weekly rest may be taken at this point but there is still the 21 hours payback owing from 2 weeks ago which must be paid back in full before next sunday 2400 so its time to think about how that is going to happen …
As you can see by this example the driver has actually worked on all 7 days of the week for 2 weeks in a row
Yes, I was with you until you mentioned 21 hours to be paid back, What does this mean? How did he end up owing 21 hours?
Because 21 hours is the difference in hours between your regular weekly rest (45 hours) and a reduced weekly rest (24 hours) 24 + 21 = 45. Remember you can only reduce your rest if you pay back the hours you reduce it by.
ROG:
Here is an example which really stretches the legal limits
Finish a regular weekly rest at 12 noon on sunday (for the week ending today at 2400) with no payback owing from any previous reduced weekly rests
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Reduced weekly rest from sat 1200 to sun 1200 (for the week ending today at 2400) = 21 hours to payback before sunday 2400 in 3 weeks time
Start sun 1200
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 1200 on Saturday - That is 144 hours since sunday 1200
Regular weekly rest from sat 1200 to mon 0900 (for the week ending sunday at 2400)
start mon 0900
Tramp out all week observing all the regs
Finish at 0900 on sunday - That is 144 hours since mon 0900
Reduced weekly rest may be taken at this point but there is still the 21 hours payback owing from 2 weeks ago which must be paid back in full before next sunday 2400 so its time to think about how that is going to happen …
As you can see by this example the driver has actually worked on all 7 days of the week for 2 weeks in a row
Yes, I was with you until you mentioned 21 hours to be paid back, What does this mean? How did he end up owing 21 hours?
Because 21 hours is the difference in hours between your regular weekly rest (45 hours) and a reduced weekly rest (24 hours) 24 + 21 = 45. Remember you can only reduce your rest if you pay back the hours you reduce it by.
Oh ok, and it must be paid back within, 3 weeks or 4 weeks?
I reduced my rest by 2 hours 15 mins, so I will have to pay it back by having a rest period of 47:15 or 26:15?.. Example I reduce my rest by 5 hours, down to 40 hours rest. The following week my weekly rest is 52 hours and this results in my “debt” being paid back?
Is it possible, that a driver could end up having 21 hours to pay back and a full weekly rest period to be taken, resulting in 66 hours rest to be taken?
Payback from a reduced weekly rest must be paid back in full and in one go after any daily or weekly rest before the sunday night at the end of the 3rd week following that reduction
Do a reduced in week 1 then payback by the end of week 4
I work six days most weeks well I say six days its mostly a few hours on saturday morning but I always try to have a 45 hour rest so im free to work next Saturday…
