WheelsofCardiff:
Harry Monk:
Terry T:
They also made me answer this question
I don’t get it. Where is that shift pattern illegal?
I think its the break part.You should have a 15 first then a 30
Only if the breaks are for driving time. As the total driving in this shift is 4 hours, no breaks were required for driving time, only WTD, in which case it doesn’t matter if it’s 30 then 15, or even 3 x 15.
q
Harry Monk:
WhiteTruckMan:
It’s a WTD violation. If you work more than 9 hours then you need a break of at least 45 minutes. it can be split, but the second period of 2.5 hours work sends you over the 9 hour limit with only 30 mins break.Ah yes, I see now.
Obviously tachograph rules weren’t enough so we have to work to two totally different sets of rules. Most of us completely ignore the WTD and there has never, ever been a prosecution for a WTD breach.
Thank God we’ve sacked the eu off out of it now and can get rid of this ■■■■ control-freakery nonsense.
To be fair I’ve never understood this view of it!
No the EU regs weren’t enough if you don’t do more than 4.5 hours of driving in a shift, the majority of my shifts I don’t and whilst I appreciate that’s the minority, I don’t understand why people have a problem with it?
And also the point that’s it’s 2 sets of rules, again I don’t see what difference it makes? If they’d incorporated into the EU regs it’d be exactly the same but under 1 title.
Is it that bad to day you can’t work more than 6 hours without a break of at least 15 mins, or if you total is between 6 and 9 you must have at least 30 mins at some point of your choosing or 45 if you total over 9.
I really don’t see why so many have an issue with it, other than the ones who think it’s too complicated because they don’t understand it and invent extra rules around it!
And the majority who do drive more than 4.5 so will have a 45 for that, therefore tick the total working time break box for any possible shift, so only have to adhere to the 6 hour rule - don’t work more than 6 hours at any point without a 15 or more break, is that a bad idea or hard for anyone to get their hear around?!!
Noremac:
Winseer:
It is this “Driver not to be paid” concept that sticks in my craw…One day, there will be a series of “crashes on assessments” that involve this “unpaid, and thereby uninsured” driver causing injury or worse to a member of the public…
All this “We underwrite our own insurance in-house” would seem to be a form of financial fraud to me, since if a member of the public subsequently puts in a claim over that uninsured on-assessment noob that wrote off their car - guess what? - Forthright payout is still resisted only this time by some “Claims department” suit who rather than being an insurer - is actually middle manangement of the firm choosing to send drivers they’ve only just met out on the road in a killing machine (ahem) and going out of their way to act thus… EU rules - don’t have to be obeyed by big business, merely “complied with” for legal process it seems. “Minimalism” in all things. A fortune spent on “Admin” - but the best way a firm can think of to save money is “drop pay” rather than provide safety standards even of inferior EU standard.
It boils my blood - it really does.
Winseer, sometimes they are getting you to put your card in, getting you to ■■■■ in a pot and checking your licence using your NI number online (illegal) too.
If they are paying you, they will also have a good look at any infringements going back as far as the card goes (which sometimes is six months or more). It doesn’t appear to even be on their radar that the driver card isn’t there for recruitment screening purposes.
Wouldn’t it be better for any such “screening” to be used rather than just not paying people, and taking the raw open-ended RISK that they do happen to have sufficient confidence in said driver - at least to let them drive the vehicle without worrying about them crashing it… BUT not enough confidence to not want to ongoingly employ them, for the “troublemaker” they might happen to be, such as yours truly?
This “Shortage” of the very narrow particular kind of driver that say, RM want then - has already pushed up their hourly rates to such a level that even the UNION these days conspire to bring down as many agency driver as they can, feeling rather resentful that they can only get the plum shifts that exceed in one sitting the max amount of overtime permitted to full timers…
It used to be 11hr 48m max overtime, with 12hr+ shifts going to agency automatically for cover… If the “working week” there has changed, then my figure is out-of-date of course…
£19.48ph is a ful fiver above agency rates for similar jobs elsehwere… Yodels, Fedex, Hermes - certainlly ain’t paying that for night trunking, and you’d be hard-pressed to get any premium rate shifts at those other courier outfits, and all…
If you set your bar too high then - rates end up rising, and the Union takes the credit/gets blamed for it.
No Shortage , Just a shortage of Drivers at the same old Crap Firms who no one will work for and wont change their attitudes or ways and are too Stupid too realise thats its cost em ££££££££££££ over the Years , but hey ho they know better .
I believe we have a change in the law coming, which will put the proverbial cat among the pigeons…
Contractor drivers on IR35 self-employed - will have to transfer to PAYE as of the new financial year?
If we all get the level playing field of PAYE with such rates probably rising to meet the falling self-empoyed rates halfway - we’re possibly looking at a near future £1ph-£2ph increase in PAYE agency rates, with full timer rates staying stagnant until people start leaving full time to get £2ph extra on agency, rather than the same or even less on agency right now.
I wonder how quickly things would change if a large majority of drivers were able to work together to shut the country down. Similar to the 2000 fuel protests.
M65Chris:
I wonder how quickly things would change if a large majority of drivers were able to work together to shut the country down. Similar to the 2000 fuel protests.
Lots of drivers are in very good jobs, take a pride do their best for the customer and company and are well treated and rewarded for it, what possibly reason would they have to stop the job.
Most drivers i would say are not in a union, many of them brainwashed into believing unions are satan incarnate, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the drivers in the previous sentence will more than likely be in a union.
Being in a union doesn’t mean you are a militant, the union is there to allow to overall negotiation of terms and conditions, to negotiate other changes and when necessary to fight things like driver facing cameras, the places most likely to be able to resist them are unionised drivers who stick together and say no.
A short while ago Hoyer fuel lads were on strike, those on this forum who supported those drivers were in a minority, some called them greedy…the shift pattern those lads do is bloody awful they earn every ha’penny, i wouldn’t work there.
I cannot understand this attitude, we all want better terms not to see everyone brought down to the lowest level but that seems not to compute with some here, i honestly think some would support striking for worse terms if it meant those on better jobs lost out more 
, the politics of envy.
The best way to better the industry is for good drivers who take a pride to find the remaining good jobs, and once in place do your level best to make the job pay, not just personally but provide a service the customer can’t better so the company you work for thrives and lasts…note when things are going well suits stay in their offices patting each other on the back at how good they are, this is the best scenario of all.
Juddian:
M65Chris:
I wonder how quickly things would change if a large majority of drivers were able to work together to shut the country down. Similar to the 2000 fuel protests.Lots of drivers are in very good jobs, take a pride do their best for the customer and company and are well treated and rewarded for it, what possibly reason would they have to stop the job.
Most drivers i would say are not in a union, many of them brainwashed into believing unions are satan incarnate, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the drivers in the previous sentence will more than likely be in a union.
Being in a union doesn’t mean you are a militant, the union is there to allow to overall negotiation of terms and conditions, to negotiate other changes and when necessary to fight things like driver facing cameras, the places most likely to be able to resist them are unionised drivers who stick together and say no.
A short while ago Hoyer fuel lads were on strike, those on this forum who supported those drivers were in a minority, some called them greedy…the shift pattern those lads do is bloody awful they earn every ha’penny, i wouldn’t work there.
I cannot understand this attitude, we all want better terms not to see everyone brought down to the lowest level but that seems not to compute with some here, i honestly think some would support striking for worse terms if it meant those on better jobs lost out moreThe best way to better the industry is for good drivers who take a pride to find the remaining good jobs, and once in place do your level best to make the job pay, not just personally but provide a service the customer can’t better so the company you work for thrives and lasts…note when things are going well suits stay in their offices patting each other on the back at how good they are, this is the best scenario of all.
And if you ever have a good dream this will be it
There never was a unity in this job and what your saying is look after yourselves get the best job you can and let the plebs work for buttons
Has it not being like that from day one
It’s not rocket science
The problem being it is rocket science to so many.
There were hundreds of really good places to work, and drivers couldn’t help themselves (and still can’t sadly ) but take the ■■■■ out of the job, put no effort in, don’t look after the tackle, take the ■■■■ out of the sick pay scheme, and lastly but most importantly look after the bloody customer because (FOR THOSE IN THE CHEAP SEATS) no customers very soon means no bloody job and another once good possibly own account outfit gets handed over to the usual logistics ski mobs…why is this so difficult to get through their thick skulls?
Trouble with good terms and conditions is…it leaves the door open,for modern logistics providers,to undercut the rates.
It’s business.
Juddian:
M65Chris:
I wonder how quickly things would change if a large majority of drivers were able to work together to shut the country down. Similar to the 2000 fuel protests.Lots of drivers are in very good jobs, take a pride do their best for the customer and company and are well treated and rewarded for it, what possibly reason would they have to stop the job.
Most drivers i would say are not in a union, many of them brainwashed into believing unions are satan incarnate, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the drivers in the previous sentence will more than likely be in a union.
Being in a union doesn’t mean you are a militant, the union is there to allow to overall negotiation of terms and conditions, to negotiate other changes and when necessary to fight things like driver facing cameras, the places most likely to be able to resist them are unionised drivers who stick together and say no.
A short while ago Hoyer fuel lads were on strike, those on this forum who supported those drivers were in a minority, some called them greedy…the shift pattern those lads do is bloody awful they earn every ha’penny, i wouldn’t work there.
I cannot understand this attitude, we all want better terms not to see everyone brought down to the lowest level but that seems not to compute with some here, i honestly think some would support striking for worse terms if it meant those on better jobs lost out moreThe best way to better the industry is for good drivers who take a pride to find the remaining good jobs, and once in place do your level best to make the job pay, not just personally but provide a service the customer can’t better so the company you work for thrives and lasts…note when things are going well suits stay in their offices patting each other on the back at how good they are, this is the best scenario of all.
I have been in Unions in the past and found them useless and run by fat ■■■■■ in Suits who when needed always proved to be two faced who were no help at all to an individual , as for when a Mass walk out or Crisis developed they seem to be on both sides of the Fence when they actually had to do some work, hence this is why we do not hear a lot about them these days.
I’ve always thought that the only effective way to run a Union these days - would be to turn it into some kind of investment authority like a pension fund, and then make sure that when people pay in their dues over the months and years - they get FULL strike pay for those few and occasional times that the Union can afford to call everyone out on full pay at their own fund’s expense…
Imagine how quickly any all-out strikers could get what they wanted - with 100% picket turnout encouraged in turn by 100% strike pay - only to those that attend picket duty…
It’s nothing to do with unions they can help to keep terms and conditions
It’s to do with people who put up with working for nobody’s, and what they do is breed it through the industry and then it becomes the norm
Now i know some would not get a job pushing a dust cart so they have to live but isn’t that the problem, every Tom ■■■■ and harry can invade this job and ruin it breeding yes men and i will do it for buttons
There will never be a shortage of people to do anything
If you offered someone 7or 8 pounds a hour in McDonald’s but you only get 37 hours which is a normal week or driving a truck at the same rate but working 60 to 70 hours, I rest my case
Waste industry pays well in my opinion. I’m about to go up to £14.60 p/h on Class 2 with two years experience. Our biggest competitor is currently advertising at £14.50 for exactly the same shift (afternoon/evening shift finishing at 11:30pm).
Tailschwing:
Waste industry pays well in my opinion. I’m about to go up to £14.60 p/h on Class 2 with two years experience. Our biggest competitor is currently advertising at £14.50 for exactly the same shift (afternoon/evening shift finishing at 11:30pm).
How much do Dark Satanic Smith pay for nights and weekends these days btw?
