shullbit:
ezydriver:
Harry Monk:
Terry T:
They also made me answer this question
I don’t get it. Where is that shift pattern illegal?
It’s not.
It is,5th line down, while doing the 2 hours driving you will go over the 6 hours without a break wtd rule
No, because just before it on the 4th line down you had a half hour break, thus resetting the 6 hour work rule.
It’s a WTD violation. If you work more than 9 hours then you need a break of at least 45 minutes. it can be split, but the second period of 2.5 hours work sends you over the 9 hour limit with only 30 mins break.
WhiteTruckMan:
It’s a WTD violation. If you work more than 9 hours then you need a break of at least 45 minutes. it can be split, but the second period of 2.5 hours work sends you over the 9 hour limit with only 30 mins break.
If you finished your over-9-hours shift with only a 30 minute break, then yes, that’s illegal, as you need 45. But you don’t need 30 minutes by 9 hours unless your shift ends between 6 and 9 hours only. You just have to make sure you don’t go over 6 hours at any one time without a 15 minute break.
Shift ending:
Upto and on 6 hours - no break required (but at least 15 needed if going over 6 hours)
between 6 and 9 hours - 30 mins (can be split)
Over 9 hours 45 mins (can be split)
ezydriver:
WhiteTruckMan:
It’s a WTD violation. If you work more than 9 hours then you need a break of at least 45 minutes. it can be split, but the second period of 2.5 hours work sends you over the 9 hour limit with only 30 mins break.If you finished your over-9-hours shift with only a 30 minute break, then yes, that’s illegal, as you need 45. But you don’t need 30 minutes by 9 hours unless your shift ends between 6 and 9 hours only. You just have to make sure you don’t go over 6 hours at any one time without a 15 minute break.
Shift ending:
Upto and on 6 hours - no break required (but at least 15 needed if going over 6 hours)
between 6 and 9 hours - 30 mins (can be split)
Over 9 hours 45 mins (can be split)
True, but this is talking about a 10h 45 shift.
One of the strange things about the 9h rule though that tripped me up recently is if you take a 15 to reset the 6h rule then before you can finish in less than 9 you have to take another break! I did a local drop the other week, about 45min each way, did some yard work, had a 15, then was told my next load had been put back so I could go home. Great, I thought, early finish for once and went home after about 8 hours in total. Got an infringement over it for insufficient break, as I worked between 6 and 9 hours with only 15 min break. Had I had another break before finishing I would have been ok. Crazy!
This is typical. Somebody that doesn’t drive makes up a quiz to ask people that work under the rules every day. Reminds me of the common misconception that you need to take 30 minutes at 6 hours. Well, actually no.
WhiteTruckMan:
ezydriver:
WhiteTruckMan:
It’s a WTD violation. If you work more than 9 hours then you need a break of at least 45 minutes. it can be split, but the second period of 2.5 hours work sends you over the 9 hour limit with only 30 mins break.If you finished your over-9-hours shift with only a 30 minute break, then yes, that’s illegal, as you need 45. But you don’t need 30 minutes by 9 hours unless your shift ends between 6 and 9 hours only. You just have to make sure you don’t go over 6 hours at any one time without a 15 minute break.
Shift ending:
Upto and on 6 hours - no break required (but at least 15 needed if going over 6 hours)
between 6 and 9 hours - 30 mins (can be split)
Over 9 hours 45 mins (can be split)True, but this is talking about a 10h 45 shift.
One of the strange things about the 9h rule though that tripped me up recently is if you take a 15 to reset the 6h rule then before you can finish in less than 9 you have to take another break! I did a local drop the other week, about 45min each way, did some yard work, had a 15, then was told my next load had been put back so I could go home. Great, I thought, early finish for once and went home after about 8 hours in total. Got an infringement over it for insufficient break, as I worked between 6 and 9 hours with only 15 min break. Had I had another break before finishing I would have been ok. Crazy!
It’s all very simple if you read the rules and some people don’t
If your one of them who inputs not driving inbetweene not driving and the truck is sitting there then you are leaving yourself open for mistakes and grief, ie just leave your card in on break
Bigtruck3:
ie just leave your card in on break
That might work for some of us, but some are paid only for hours booked as work on their cards.
WhiteTruckMan:
It’s a WTD violation. If you work more than 9 hours then you need a break of at least 45 minutes. it can be split, but the second period of 2.5 hours work sends you over the 9 hour limit with only 30 mins break.
Ah yes, I see now.
Obviously tachograph rules weren’t enough so we have to work to two totally different sets of rules. Most of us completely ignore the WTD and there has never, ever been a prosecution for a WTD breach.
Thank God we’ve sacked the eu off out of it now and can get rid of this ■■■■ control-freakery nonsense.
Harry Monk:
Thank God we’ve sacked the eu off out of it now and can get rid of this ■■■■ control-freakery nonsense.
Not so long as Bozo’s idea of ‘transition’ means staying tied to the dockside paying port charges and subject to EU rules.If he was the real deal WTD and EU hours regs would already have been ditched for domestic rules regarding ‘domestic’ operations.
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
Thank God we’ve sacked the eu off out of it now and can get rid of this ■■■■ control-freakery nonsense.Not so long as Bozo’s idea of ‘transition’ means staying tied to the dockside paying port charges and subject to EU rules.If he was the real deal WTD and EU hours regs would already have been ditched for domestic rules regarding ‘domestic’ operations.
I am sure that is one of his highest priorities. 
I don`t care about any of it to be honest, I shall do what I like and my main aim is to be safe for me and more importantly others…If I do as I please with that aim in mind, then I cannot see what the problem is.
jakethesnake:
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
Thank God we’ve sacked the eu off out of it now and can get rid of this ■■■■ control-freakery nonsense.Not so long as Bozo’s idea of ‘transition’ means staying tied to the dockside paying port charges and subject to EU rules.If he was the real deal WTD and EU hours regs would already have been ditched for domestic rules regarding ‘domestic’ operations.
I am sure that is one of his highest priorities.
Careful now.
ROG:
If there was a real driver shortage then newbies would be offered a full time permanent job the moment they passed
The problem with this is that insurance companies are partially to blame for it as well.
Speaking to a firm asking about any vacancies and telling them I was a new driver. The firm had no problems in principle taking on a new passer. Their biggest problem was the last time they were going to employ a new passer the insurance company they used were going to up the premium by 6 grand.
Not saying it’s the insurers fault either as they’ve obviously been stung in the past but the part of the problem of firms taking on new passers is simply the extra cost of insurance.
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
muckles:
Winseer:
That’s how supply and demand SHOULD work - but we have a corrupted state of price discovery in the HGV jobs market alas…In a proper capitalist system - drivers would be paid a sliding scale of rates, according to their
(1) Age and years of experience
(2) Number of yards worked at (wider experience!)
(3) Tickets held
(4) Shift bonus for Friday Nights, First thing monday mornings on top of usual saturday/sunday premiums
(5) Better retention “perks” for those drivers with clean licences/good H&S and sickness records…That’s not a capitalist system, that sounds like something a state controlled system would come up with.
A capitalist system is the supply and demand system that Harry mentioned, if you have more workers than jobs you pay the lowest rate they’ll accept, if you have more work than jobs, you put the money up until you have filled the vacancies.Winseer:
The capitalism is the “Price discovery” bit. That is, if you cannot fill a shift at a price - you up the price, rather than import some bodies from overseas, put them in legally questionable “safety standard” accommodation, and bypassing the free and open market process of “price discovery” altogether… That circumvention is “Anti Capitalist” and it is Blair’s Nu labour we have to thank for that. Is there anyone on here who doesn’t think that the golden age of agency work ended in 1997 for everyone except NHS agency workers, it seems?
I see, so your definition of an open and free market is one where the pool of workers is limited by Government legislation, Interesting?
Winseer:
Let’s see an end to UNPAID and UNINSURED inductions/assessments then - across the industry…
I seem to recall the Labour party suggesting the same thing.
muckles:
muckles:
Winseer:
That’s how supply and demand SHOULD work - but we have a corrupted state of price discovery in the HGV jobs market alas…In a proper capitalist system - drivers would be paid a sliding scale of rates, according to their
(1) Age and years of experience
(2) Number of yards worked at (wider experience!)
(3) Tickets held
(4) Shift bonus for Friday Nights, First thing monday mornings on top of usual saturday/sunday premiums
(5) Better retention “perks” for those drivers with clean licences/good H&S and sickness records…That’s not a capitalist system, that sounds like something a state controlled system would come up with.
A capitalist system is the supply and demand system that Harry mentioned, if you have more workers than jobs you pay the lowest rate they’ll accept, if you have more work than jobs, you put the money up until you have filled the vacancies.Winseer:
The capitalism is the “Price discovery” bit. That is, if you cannot fill a shift at a price - you up the price, rather than import some bodies from overseas, put them in legally questionable “safety standard” accommodation, and bypassing the free and open market process of “price discovery” altogether… That circumvention is “Anti Capitalist” and it is Blair’s Nu labour we have to thank for that. Is there anyone on here who doesn’t think that the golden age of agency work ended in 1997 for everyone except NHS agency workers, it seems?I see, so your definition of an open and free market is one where the pool of workers is limited by Government legislation, Interesting?
Winseer:
Let’s see an end to UNPAID and UNINSURED inductions/assessments then - across the industry…I seem to recall the Labour party suggesting the same thing.
Good post.
Plus how is it correct that MPs can still employ unpaid interns?
How can a working class kid get into this world? Won`t it be biased towards the offspring of the well-off who can afford to support their grown-up children?
This applies to many (well paid!) professions.
It is this “Driver not to be paid” concept that sticks in my craw…
One day, there will be a series of “crashes on assessments” that involve this “unpaid, and thereby uninsured” driver causing injury or worse to a member of the public…
All this “We underwrite our own insurance in-house” would seem to be a form of financial fraud to me, since if a member of the public subsequently puts in a claim over that uninsured on-assessment noob that wrote off their car - guess what? - Forthright payout is still resisted only this time by some “Claims department” suit who rather than being an insurer - is actually middle manangement of the firm choosing to send drivers they’ve only just met out on the road in a killing machine (ahem) and going out of their way to act thus… EU rules - don’t have to be obeyed by big business, merely “complied with” for legal process it seems. “Minimalism” in all things. A fortune spent on “Admin” - but the best way a firm can think of to save money is “drop pay” rather than provide safety standards even of inferior EU standard.
It boils my blood - it really does. 
Winseer:
It is this “Driver not to be paid” concept that sticks in my craw…One day, there will be a series of “crashes on assessments” that involve this “unpaid, and thereby uninsured” driver causing injury or worse to a member of the public…
All this “We underwrite our own insurance in-house” would seem to be a form of financial fraud to me, since if a member of the public subsequently puts in a claim over that uninsured on-assessment noob that wrote off their car - guess what? - Forthright payout is still resisted only this time by some “Claims department” suit who rather than being an insurer - is actually middle manangement of the firm choosing to send drivers they’ve only just met out on the road in a killing machine (ahem) and going out of their way to act thus… EU rules - don’t have to be obeyed by big business, merely “complied with” for legal process it seems. “Minimalism” in all things. A fortune spent on “Admin” - but the best way a firm can think of to save money is “drop pay” rather than provide safety standards even of inferior EU standard.
It boils my blood - it really does.
Winseer, sometimes they are getting you to put your card in, getting you to ■■■■ in a pot and checking your licence using your NI number online (illegal) too.
If they are paying you, they will also have a good look at any infringements going back as far as the card goes (which sometimes is six months or more). It doesn’t appear to even be on their radar that the driver card isn’t there for recruitment screening purposes.
WhiteTruckMan:
One of the strange things about the 9h rule though that tripped me up recently is if you take a 15 to reset the 6h rule then before you can finish in less than 9 you have to take another break! I did a local drop the other week, about 45min each way, did some yard work, had a 15, then was told my next load had been put back so I could go home. Great, I thought, early finish for once and went home after about 8 hours in total. Got an infringement over it for insufficient break, as I worked between 6 and 9 hours with only 15 min break. Had I had another break before finishing I would have been ok. Crazy!
The only strange thing about the 9hr rule is that it doesn’t’ exist. At least not in the way many people believe. That shift pattern I posted is 100% legit. Here’s why.
Worked longer than 6 hours without a break ? NO
Worked longer than 9 hours in total without taking breaks totalling at least 45 minutes ? NO
It really is that simple. The only rules that have anything to do with 9 hours are working between 6 and 9 hours total (30 minutes total break required) and working over 9 hours (45 minutes total break required). There is no requirement to have had a set amount of breaks by the 9 hour mark. Working 6 hours, having a 15 minute break then working another 6 hours is absolutely fine.
What you did is illegal though as you worked over 6 hours and only had 15 minutes total break. Dumb ? Yeah a little bit but it is what it is.
I get what WhiteTruckMan is saying though. His day was not predictable and if somebody says you can go home, your first thought is not that you have to go and put the tachograph on a break for 15 minutes and then other work for one minute before heading for the exit.
You can work a 5h 59m shift without a break, but if you work a 6h 1m shift, it has to be half an hour break. However at the same time you could be 10 hours into a shift having only taken a 15 minute break. The rules are a bit crazy in that respect.
I totally agree with Terry T that you could theoretically go past 9 hours having just taken a 15 minute break.
Harry Monk:
Terry T:
They also made me answer this question
I don’t get it. Where is that shift pattern illegal?
I think its the break part.You should have a 15 first then a 30
