yet again i have had to sign my life away this afteroon, this time for 2 “48 hour infringments”, i worked 49 hours not 48 so the sheet of paper said, but TM said although the computer picked it up, its not a slap on the wrist letter warning because you can do 60 hours. i work 4 on 2 off shift.
so how come if its not an infringment did the computer pick it up 
cheers 
Cruise Control:
yet again i have had to sign my life away this afteroon, this time for 2 “48 hour infringments”, i worked 49 hours not 48 so the sheet of paper said, but TM said although the computer picked it up, its not a slap on the wrist letter warning because you can do 60 hours. i work 4 on 2 off shift.so how come if its not an infringment did the computer pick it up
cheers
Did it show as an actual infringement, or as an “advisory” ?rh
Does the 60 hours thing need to be a collective agreement thing ? If so, perhaps the company hasn’t put the correct paperwork together ? (Or is that just the extending to 26 weeks ?)
Or maybe - The analysing company (if used) doesn’t have it’s parameters set to match your company’s ?
And a shot in the dark - Perhaps your shift pattern occasionally puts your working “week” into, and across two “fixed weeks” (Although that probably wouldn’t effect the 48/60 hour rule)
dambuster:
Cruise Control:
yet again i have had to sign my life away this afteroon, this time for 2 “48 hour infringments”, i worked 49 hours not 48 so the sheet of paper said, but TM said although the computer picked it up, its not a slap on the wrist letter warning because you can do 60 hours. i work 4 on 2 off shift.so how come if its not an infringment did the computer pick it up
cheers
Did it show as an actual infringement, or as an “advisory” ?rh
Does the 60 hours thing need to be a collective agreement thing ? If so, perhaps the company hasn’t put the correct paperwork together ? (Or is that just the extending to 26 weeks ?)
Or maybe - The analysing company (if used) doesn’t have it’s parameters set to match your company’s ?
And a shot in the dark - Perhaps your shift pattern occasionally puts your working “week” into, and across two “fixed weeks” (Although that probably wouldn’t effect the 48/60 hour rule)
no idea on most of that, sorry mate. he said i was just about the only one to hit it and said something about it should gradualy lower in the next 17 week period it was on a printed a4 typed sheet listing the infringment and you sign and date at bottom.
I’ll assume that the software adds up all the work hours done over the average reference period.
My guess is that the company has had the software installed to highlight every time the WORK done in any one WEEK goes over 48 hours but IMO they have cocked it up !!
They should have software that picks up any work week that goes over 60 hours not 48
The company needs to ensure that they (not you) keep you within the 48 hour average and not go over 60 in any one week.
WORK = driving & other work not breaks or POA
The WEEK = mon 0000 to sun 2400
Don’t sign anything, just tell the TM that average 48 means you can work 60 hours max.
To paraphrase Neil Hobbs
Bullcrap. 
Oh, sorry you did sign it 
Wheel Nut:
Don’t sign anything, just tell the TM that average 48 means you can work 60 hours max.To paraphrase Neil Hobbs
Bullcrap.
Oh, sorry you did sign it
yup, because he said its wasnt an infringment that i’d get a letter for compared to say if i had broken the 6 hour rule 
would VOSA comment on it during a routine
IMO, VOSA would just give then a funny look if it was pointed out that you did more than 48 hours in a week and they would probably walk away shaking their heads in amazement at such stupidity - they may not laugh out loud as that would be ‘unprofessional’
Cruise Control:
yet again i have had to sign my life away this afteroon, this time for 2 “48 hour infringments”, i worked 49 hours not 48 so the sheet of paper said, but TM said although the computer picked it up, its not a slap on the wrist letter warning because you can do 60 hours. i work 4 on 2 off shift.so how come if its not an infringment did the computer pick it up
cheers
i am no expert on working time but it not you that should be done for something you company is responsible for, there have to inform you you are going over your working time and then you can adjust as required
and you only can get infringements for tachographs not working time
and as working time is an average you can not get the so called infringement in a reference point, cos how do there no what hours your going to do in the rest of the reference point
delboytwo:
but it not you that should be done for something you company is responsible for, there have to inform you you are going over your working time and then you can adjust as required
That responsibility if for his employer to sort out and not the driver as it will be the employers’ planners that set out the work for the driver - those planners would have to reduce the work.
Cruise Control:
yet again i have had to sign my life away this afteroon, this time for 2 “48 hour infringments”, i worked 49 hours not 48 so the sheet of paper said, but TM said although the computer picked it up, its not a slap on the wrist letter warning because you can do 60 hours. i work 4 on 2 off shift.so how come if its not an infringment did the computer pick it up
cheers
Hi Cruise Control, Maybe you’ve read some of the posts on this subject on the forums, but what I can’t understand is how it’s come to be called an “infringement”■■ Who called it by that name??
As other posters have pointed out, the 48 hours is an AVERAGE of your working time taken over a 17 or 26 week period.
A 48 hour average ISN’T the same thing as a 48 hour limit, so I’d like to ask the person who got you to sign the paper to explain exactly what has been infringed??
(Don’t let the TM blame the computer, cos a TM should know that 49 work hours in a week isn’t of itself illegal. 
)
If the TM thinks that 48 hours is a limit, does that mean that you get a free day off tomorrow??
I think this “infringement” is likely to head straight into a special glass display case in the hall of fame!! 
ROG:
delboytwo:
but it not you that should be done for something you company is responsible for, there have to inform you you are going over your working time and then you can adjust as requiredThat responsibility if for his employer to sort out and not the driver as it will be the employers’ planners that set out the work for the driver - those planners would have to reduce the work.
and the driver Rog, there are still responsible
6.1 Main Points
- Records need to be kept for 2 years after the end of the period in question.
- The employer is responsible for keeping working time records, making the records available
for inspection and informing employees of their responsibilities. Employees must see details
of any relevant agreement in advance.- Employment agencies/employment businesses should keep working time records if the mobile
worker is paid by (or via) them.- Mobile workers are responsible for notifying an employer (in writing) of work performed for
another employer.- Owner drivers who do not meet the criteria for a self-employed driver under the Regulations
should keep a record of their own working time.
Although most of the requirements for monitoring and keeping records lie with the employer,
both the mobile worker and employer share the responsibility for complying with the
Regulations. Both employer and mobile worker are potentially liable for prosecution if the
rules are systematically broken.
Of course employees have responsibiities but the focus on them is for what they can easily do such as not going over 6 hours work without at least a 15 min break and taking at least the minimum breaks for the total work time for each shift.
I would say the the word ‘reasonable’ comes into this and, it seems, do the authorities as they seem to say that it is not reasonable to expect employees to work out the average over X amount of weeks
ROG:
Of course employees have responsibiities but the focus on them is for what they can easily do such as not going over 6 hours work without at least a 15 min break and taking at least the minimum breaks for the total work time for each shift.I would say the the word ‘reasonable’ comes into this and, it seems, do the authorities as they seem to say that it is not reasonable to expect employees to work out the average over X amount of weeks
Where does it say that
It seems to me that the legal obligation to keep records is with the employer, this is to show the authorities that the regulations have been complied with.
But as far as I can see the employee also has an obligation to comply with the regulations and frankly this is as it should be in my opinion, after all we often complain about this being a nanny state so why should we complain when we’re expected to take responsibility for our own actions.
Whether or not the 48 hour week is something we should want is another question altogether.
That’s why I said ‘SEEM’ as there is nothing actually written either way - only ‘reading between the lines’ and taking a ‘view’ on it - nothing concrete
A driver is expected to keep within the law but the emphasis is on the employer to keep the driver within it - a very strange set up…
tachograph:
But as far as I can see the employee also has an obligation to comply with the regulations and frankly this is as it should be in my opinion, after all we often complain about this being a nanny state so why should we complain when we’re expected to take responsibility for our own actions.
I agree, the employee is equally responsible. What if he loses his job through being sacked or the company going bust? He will have to be able to advise a new employer of the hours worked and he might not be able to get them from his previous employer, maybe they failed to keep records.
It’s no good the driver saying he didn’t know he was going to exceed the limits because the company didn’t tell him, he has to be able to say sorry I can’t do that run because I am out of hours, much as the he does with regard to EU Driver’s Hours Regulations.
just like a driver that mite work for 3 or 4 agency’s there have to tell each one how many hours there have worked for at each agency so that type of driver as a bigger responsibly to each of there employers
and one thing we all forget unless your hours are set in stone it you the employee that tells the employer your hours for each week you work by the means of a time sheet or tachograph records or what the employer gives you to use to book WTD