you missed number seven off…to be self employed you must have done work,been owed three months money by a customer who has then gone bust owing you money…wtd dont make me laugh
there are two annoying things on this post.
-
self employed…as has been explained above what it actually means, but, how come a driver can be self employed for an agency…an employer…or whatever…without ever having seen an
olicence let alone own a truck. -
WTD 48 hrs…dont make me laugh…most employers break the rules by insisting their drivers use the mode switch
breakrather thanother work
We know this can sometimes be an advantage to a driver, but in my mind it increases the working week to such an extent that when i am on duty for between 60 and 85 hrs every week makes a mockery of the rules.
When we complained to our TM he took away all the breaks and said we are only averaging 40 hrs anyway…no wonder drivers are always falling asleep, and what doesnt help is the RDC`s who insist no driver is allowed to stay in his cab…but in our nice freezing cold warehouse instead.
We have had drivers disciplined for using other work modes whilst tipping or loading.
We have drivers who have been disciplined for not working 15 hour days
We have drivers who have been disciplined for not reducing their daily rest
I am a rebel in this department, and always insist on 11 hrs off, but dont always follow the rules on mode switches whilst tipping/loading, as like many others it all depends on work loads etc, but i dont expect the company to allow planners to plan 15 hr days, which is illegal, but a common practice amongst many hauliers. this industry is always in favour of the haulier, but not necessarily the driver, we are damned if we do…and damned if we dont.
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
I’m betting that there are not many drivers on here who have not had at least one 15 min break in 6 hours of driving/other workI know of at least two. I’ve done it quite a few times and I know Mike-C has, at least in a shift of over 6 hours, because I can remember him posting about it.
i’ve had 2 in the past 6 weeks 
truckyboy:
there are two annoying things on this post.
self employed…as has been explained above what it actually means, but, how come a driver can be self employed for an agency…an employer…or whatever…without ever having seen an
olicence let alone own a truck.WTD 48 hrs…dont make me laugh…most employers break the rules by insisting their drivers use the mode switch
breakrather thanother work
We know this can sometimes be an advantage to a driver, but in my mind it increases the working week to such an extent that when i am on duty for between 60 and 85 hrs every week makes a mockery of the rules.
When we complained to our TM he took away all the breaks and said we are only averaging 40 hrs anyway…no wonder drivers are always falling asleep, and what doesnt help is the RDC`s who insist no driver is allowed to stay in his cab…but in our nice freezing cold warehouse instead.We have had drivers disciplined for using
other workmodes whilst tipping or loading.
We have drivers who have been disciplined for not working 15 hour days
We have drivers who have been disciplined for not reducing their daily restI am a rebel in this department, and always insist on 11 hrs off, but dont always follow the rules on mode switches whilst tipping/loading, as like many others it all depends on work loads etc, but i dont expect the company to allow planners to plan 15 hr days, which is illegal, but a common practice amongst many hauliers. this industry is always in favour of the haulier, but not necessarily the driver, we are damned if we do…and damned if we dont.
That’s the real world whatever the bureaucrats tell everyone they are doing to make everything better.We’ve always had that catch 22 of what the regs say and what the guvnors often want.An agency driver can’t be legally self employed on trucks needing an O licence.If he was he could legally be paid by the mile.Not that he’d make much on most of the distribution work on offer.
If you are the owner of the main tool of your trade …ie the truck and you have an operator licence,you are self employed
truckyboy:
I have been hearing rumours this week that the governmentsopt outof the WTD will cease to be in effect from January 2010.
This will mean that everyone will have to stick to a 48hr maximum…no 60 hrs…no 70 hrs…no 80 hrs but only 48hrs…i wondered if there is any truth in this rumour…i sincerely hope there is.
I mentioned this to our T.M. and he said it wouldnt happen, but when i told him he had no choice if it was true, and that all drivers would be required to stick with the rules, he didnt like it.SO IS IT…OR ISNT IT…
Somebody else who doesn’t know the rules.
WE ALREADY ARE FIXED TO A 48 HOUR WORKING WEEK WITH NO OPT-OUT
Difference is that its averaged over either 17 or 26 weeks and doesn’t include PoA. Now whether its going to change to include PoA and get rid of the averaging, I don’t know. I wish it would.
truckyboy wrote:
I have been hearing rumours this week that the governmentsopt outof the WTD will cease to be in effect from January 2010.
Are you referring to the WTD or the RT(WTD)R - many get these mixed up when reading headlines
the WTD is not for drivers - the RT(WTD)R is
Conor:
Somebody else who doesn’t know the rules.WE ALREADY ARE FIXED TO A 48 HOUR WORKING WEEK WITH NO OPT-OUT
You missed the point. The rumour is that the 48 hour maximum per week over the reference period isn’t going to change but the option to be able to do up to 60 hours of work in a week, provided you average 48 or less over the reference period, is going, thereby limiting everyone to a maximum of 48 hours of work in any given week.
Coffeeholic:
Conor:
Somebody else who doesn’t know the rules.WE ALREADY ARE FIXED TO A 48 HOUR WORKING WEEK WITH NO OPT-OUT
You missed the point. The rumour is that the 48 hour maximum per week over the reference period isn’t going to change but the option to be able to do up to 60 hours of work in a week, provided you average 48 or less over the reference period, is going, thereby limiting everyone to a maximum of 48 hours of work in any given week.
I know that checking for the average is virtually non existant at the moment but if this does come in then checking for a set 48 hours in one week will be made very easy for the authorities and may put the onus more onto the driver rather than the employers
Have I sussed this correctly 
I wonder how many drivers actually go over 48 hours in any one week and if so, how often
ROG:
I know that checking for the average is virtually non existant at the moment but if this does come in…
It isn’t coming in in the foreseeable future and isn’t likely to. It would makes the regulations to inflexible.
i just worked out my hours over the last 17 weeks…
average…45.85hrs per week.
48hrs + …9 weeks
this is AFTER deducting breaks and poas. 
Quinny:
interlog:
Mobile workers have never been able to “opt” out of the WTD anyway.IIRC owner drivers have.
Ken.
Not if they’ve set their company up as a Ltd company because they’re classed as an employee and therefore subject to the WTD. It would only be someone who has set their company up as a sole trader which is a pretty stupid thing to do in haulage as you basically put everything you own on the line.
fuse:
If you are the owner of the main tool of your trade …ie the truck and you have an operator licence,you are self employed
WRONG. You have to be able to choose when you work. You have to be free to choose where you work. You have to be free to choose who does the work. You have to be liable for all losses (if you’re a Ltd company, you’re not self employed but am an employee of your ltd company) and several other things. If you want, I can go through the list but its there on the HMRC website.
A mechanic working in a garage holds his qualification and owns the main tools of his trade but he’s not self employed.
Conor:
WRONG… I can go through the list but its there on the HMRC website.
Which would be pretty pointless as the criteria to be self employed for the WTD differs from the criteria set by HMRC. You can be self employed in the eyes of HMRC but not for the WTD. You don’t have to have an O Licence to be recognised by HMRC as self employed but it is the first requirement for the WTD.