I thought it was earlier than that Dennis. 
I was running a Mandator with a tandem axled tank trailer at 32t gross in 1970/71.Axle spreads were the critical thing and that’s why 3-axled units were popular at that time.If the axle spread wasn’t correct then I think you could only run at 30t gross on four axles.Will consult my library. 
Like my Sheffield pal Johnnie, I stand to be corrected on this 'cos me brain hurts. 
Chris Webb:
I thought it was earlier than that Dennis.
Like my Sheffield pal Johnnie, I stand to be corrected on this 'cos me brain hurts.
I obviously can’t be precise with the exact date Chris but we got this particular trailer around the backend of '72 and it defo had a slightly wider axle spread than the other 5 off 70/71 and earlier 1972 tandems we were running.But for that episode I’ve related earlier I wasn’t aware at the time of the change but when you took pains and looked at both bogies the new trailer had a very slightly wider spread1 Cheers Dennis.
I remember Swifts in the 70s used to have a couple of York single axle 40 footers with the axle right at the back which they used only on the Ford parts contact 
Their trailer numbers were 1 & 2 so i presume they were the first two trailers they owned ( as each trailer was numbered consecutively ) & i distinctley remember the date of manufacture being 1965 ,so the 40’ length was permitted sometime in the 60s & as someone else mentioned the tandems built before 72 were ‘spread’ axles with the diamond shaped cut out chassis, the ones after that being the standard York offerings
Definatley the 60s when 32T was legal on 4 axles, the magoritey of trailers were 33Ft/ 40 Footers were rare. Mind you my memmory fades a bit sometimes. in fact I have just tonight increased my single malt medication to see if it can help me think better about the good old days, but there again I will never forget the gold old days, on the Quayside when I first started driving wagons ,Happy days Larry.
Chris Webb:
I thought it was earlier than that Dennis.
Didn’t know you had any pals,well in Sheffield anyhow! Anon II.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Definatley the 60s when 32T was legal on 4 axles, the magoritey of trailers were 33Ft/ 40 Footers were rare. Mind you my memmory fades a bit sometimes. in fact I have just tonight increased my single malt medication to see if it can help me think better about the good old days, but there again I will never forget the gold old days, on the Quayside when I first started driving wagons ,Happy days Larry.
Someone will give us a precise date Larry but I’m certain my first 40ft tandems could only run at 30ton GVW behind the 71 and 72 Borderers we had until later 72’ .A widespread or tri-axle was required to run at 32ton prior to this date.Cheers Dennis.
This is a shot of one of the trailers we aquired when we bought John McGuffie out in '74 and it was one of 5 widespreads of71/72 vintage the other two later trailers were ordinary close coupled tandems of73 vintage.John stopped buying widespreads once the C & U regs altered.The trailer in the shot is loaded with Workington Pig Iron for the midlands and the trailer next to it is loaded with new 45 gal drums ex Liverpool for Albright and Wilson Whitehaven
.
Well in 1968 I worked for F.Short & Sons & ther had two Mandators an E & an F reg they both ran a 32 T. I myself got a Scammell Handyman J reg that also ran at 32T… tHE AEC Mecury model F regs with the AEC 470 engine were 24, on 3 axles , the model with the 505 engine could run at 26T on 4 axles, the system was a bit crazy in those days rules & regs. but there again whats changed ?, it gets worse the way I see things today, Regards Larry
Chris Webb:
I thought it was earlier than that Dennis.
Like my Sheffield pal Johnnie, I stand to be corrected on this 'cos me brain hurts.
That’s about right, Chris - it was possible to run at 32T on 4 axles after the 1964 Act, but the outer axle spread required to achieve that made it impracticable for many vehicles. I do have an article of the time by John Dickson-Simpson on the very subject. Somewhere! And it was complicated by the requirement, if I remember correctly, to get it all within an overall length of 15m Would it have been a 42’ OAS? That sounds vaguely familiar
The weight limits are intertwined with vehicle length and width limits during the Sixties to Seventies and the many changes to C&U regs. From a table I have in a book it states, Artics on four axles 30 Ton from 1964 and 32 Ton from 1966, Three axles 22 Ton 1964 and 24 Ton 1966. In 1973 the Metric measurement came in to C&U and the limit was 32.52 tonnes, with the 38 tonne limit coming in 1983. However in 1964 max artic length was 13m or 42ft 7ins and in 1968 15m or 49ft 2 1/2 ins, when the 40 foot trailer became legal to cope with demand of the 40ft container. Widths also changed from 8ft to 8ft 2 1/2 ins or 2.5m in 1964 up to 1996 when they changed to 2.55m. Fridge trailers differ slightly because of the insulated bodies.
From my personal memories I know my Fathers 1965 (C reg) Seddon was plated for 32 Ton, the first 32 Tonner Steenburgs bought, but he wouldn’t have been able to run at that I suppose until 66 with a tandem axle 33ft trailer. I started for Alfie Ellis in Summer 1968 as an apprentice and his Mandators GCW was 32 Ton with a standard tandem axle 40 ft flat. I can’t recall now the legal reasons for the spread axle 40 footers but did they not come about until the start of the 70’s. I can remember the Scammell 40 ft spread axle as it had a very high ride height and deep chassis, almost needed step ladders to get onto it. Interesting thread and bound to create debate! Franky.
Lawrence Dunbar:
boris:
Just wondered when did the tandem 40 footer become the standard trailer for 32 tonners?As far as I can remember it was mid 60s , A pal of mine had a Mandator E reg with a C/F, Twist lock trailer which was a 40 footer. Regards Larry
that would have been a boden trailer then , upto about 72.
had some 33 footers at 32 ton
escortg3:
Lawrence Dunbar:
boris:
Just wondered when did the tandem 40 footer become the standard trailer for 32 tonners?As far as I can remember it was mid 60s , A pal of mine had a Mandator E reg with a C/F, Twist lock trailer which was a 40 footer. Regards Larry
that would have been a boden trailer then , upto about 72.
had some 33 footers at 32 ton
I remember a yard full of 33’ trailers and as we only carried Seawheel lancashire flats and Drum Carriers they were ideal at the time, I think the first 40’ in the yard was a Tilt which was doing regular trips to Germany.
Boden
Merriworth
Tinsley
York
Primrose
and many more
Good thread been started here!! As I only started work in the industry in late '65 as a youngster I wasn’t much interested in C & U regs,but I can re-call that 40ft trailers didn’t start appearing until about 1968.Prior to this the 33ft tandem had been trailer of choice.I also recall hearing at the time that Robsons of Carlisle were stuck with a huge fleet of mainly Northern 33 footers as the demand for 40ft trailers started to gather pace from customers,I also re-call at that time the late Alex Boyes junior complaining that the customer was reluctant to pay anymore rate for the additional 7ft of deck length! A similar set of circumstanes ocurred when Curtainsiders started to gain popularity in the late 70’s and customer demand for them started to render sheets and ropes redundant.Prior to me leaving Brady’s in early '68 I also remember that up to that time they didn’t run any 40 footers although they were still taking delivery of new Boden 33 footers so I’m fairly certain that until the 1968 Transport act came in and allowed the 40 ft trailer to be operated genrally throughout the industry the previous dimensions had made their operation impractical! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
This is a shot of one of the trailers we aquired when we bought John McGuffie out in '74 and it was one of 5 widespreads of71/72 vintage the other two later trailers were ordinary close coupled tandems of73 vintage.John stopped buying widespreads once the C & U regs altered.The trailer in the shot is loaded with Workington Pig Iron for the midlands and the trailer next to it is loaded with new 45 gal drums ex Liverpool for Albright and Wilson Whitehaven
I looked twice then Dennis , i thought those Bewick men must have been good to load empty drums on top of that uneven load , i think i`ve delivered empty drums to Albright and Wilson at Whitehaven for Tanks and Drums,of Bradford but in a box trailer and sometimes step deck curtainsiders,i prefered the curtainsider the box vans were all handball
ramone:
Bewick:
This is a shot of one of the trailers we aquired when we bought John McGuffie out in '74 and it was one of 5 widespreads of71/72 vintage the other two later trailers were ordinary close coupled tandems of73 vintage.John stopped buying widespreads once the C & U regs altered.The trailer in the shot is loaded with Workington Pig Iron for the midlands and the trailer next to it is loaded with new 45 gal drums ex Liverpool for Albright and Wilson WhitehavenI looked twice then Dennis , i thought those Bewick men must have been good to load empty drums on top of that uneven load , i think i`ve delivered empty drums to Albright and Wilson at Whitehaven for Tanks and Drums,of Bradford but in a box trailer and sometimes step deck curtainsiders,i prefered the curtainsider the box vans were all handball
A nice tidy load of drums there Dennis.
We only ever carried them on the roll but they were full
Just re-read the info I put on last night and 1964 was 32 Ton and not 30 Ton, bit late when I posted so must have misread it (going a bit squinty eyed by then), therefore I presume 32Ton GVW could be attained with a 33ft trailer as the 40 ft didn’t arrive until 1968, unless it could only be done with a five axle outfit, hence the twin steer and rear steer models being produced then. I recall my old man saying he sometimes pulled tri-axles for DFDS out of North Shields with his C Reg Seddon at 32 Ton. Yeah, just read another account by Peter Davies and the 32 Ton artic limit came out in the 1964 C&U Regs, matching the Eight Wheeler Wagon and Drag limit but more than the solo eight wheel rigid which stayed at 28 Ton, one of the reasons why many companies began to change to Artics.
I’m slightly confused now, it means my old mans unit could pull 32 Ton from new in 1965, I once mentioned this in an article to CVC a few years ago and no other than Graham Edge replied to say he couldn’t pull that weight until 1966! Was there a gap period before the 64 Regs came into use or was his reply incorrect as the only changes made in 1966 was to Three axle outfits going up to 24 Ton from 22 Ton GCW. Anyway the answer to the original question was 1968 C&U Regs for 40ft trailers, we had joined the EU then and came under pressure to adjust the max length to allow 20 Ton payloads on 40ft containers. Just to add another bit of info the reflective plates for HGV’s and trailers came into use by November 1st 1971 (why November !) before that most firms painted red and white or black and white stripes onto the trailer rears.
Cheers Franky.
Frankydobo:
Just re-read the info I put on last night and 1964 was 32 Ton and not 30 Ton, bit late when I posted so must have misread it (going a bit squinty eyed by then), therefore I presume 32Ton GVW could be attained with a 33ft trailer as the 40 ft didn’t arrive until 1968, unless it could only be done with a five axle outfit, hence the twin steer and rear steer models being produced then. I recall my old man saying he sometimes pulled tri-axles for DFDS out of North Shields with his C Reg Seddon at 32 Ton. Yeah, just read another account by Peter Davies and the 32 Ton artic limit came out in the 1964 C&U Regs, matching the Eight Wheeler Wagon and Drag limit but more than the solo eight wheel rigid which stayed at 28 Ton, one of the reasons why many companies began to change to Artics.I’m slightly confused now, it means my old mans unit could pull 32 Ton from new in 1965, I once mentioned this in an article to CVC a few years ago and no other than Graham Edge replied to say he couldn’t pull that weight until 1966! Was there a gap period before the 64 Regs came into use or was his reply incorrect as the only changes made in 1966 was to Three axle outfits going up to 24 Ton from 22 Ton GCW. Anyway the answer to the original question was 1968 C&U Regs for 40ft trailers, we had joined the EU then and came under pressure to adjust the max length to allow 20 Ton payloads on 40ft containers. Just to add another bit of info the reflective plates for HGV’s and trailers came into use by November 1st 1971 (why November !) before that most firms painted red and white or black and white stripes onto the trailer rears.
Cheers Franky.
Thought we joined the ■■■■■■ EEC in 1974
Your almost right Ramone it was 1973 for EC or EU ( my mistake again! ). It was the ISO (International Standards Organisation) that pushed for the standardisation of containers for 10, 20, 30 and 40ft in 1968 so helping to adjust the length limits in UK.
Right lads , on the matter of the length of the trailer 
as i mentioned earlier the 40’ single axle trailers had the year of manufacturer as 1965 on their chassis plates?? - how were these allowed? They were usually paired with Ford D1000’s .NB They were definitely 40 footers- as all the Swift drivers hated them with a vengance
Wheel Nut:
ramone:
Bewick:
This is a shot of one of the trailers we aquired when we bought John McGuffie out in '74 and it was one of 5 widespreads of71/72 vintage the other two later trailers were ordinary close coupled tandems of73 vintage.John stopped buying widespreads once the C & U regs altered.The trailer in the shot is loaded with Workington Pig Iron for the midlands and the trailer next to it is loaded with new 45 gal drums ex Liverpool for Albright and Wilson WhitehavenI looked twice then Dennis , i thought those Bewick men must have been good to load empty drums on top of that uneven load , i think i`ve delivered empty drums to Albright and Wilson at Whitehaven for Tanks and Drums,of Bradford but in a box trailer and sometimes step deck curtainsiders,i prefered the curtainsider the box vans were all handball
A nice tidy load of drums there Dennis.
We only ever carried them on the roll but they were full
What leads you to assume they wern’t full Dave■■? We never run around empty!!! Only a joke!! if some our “straight laced” members don’t appreciate or understand the “craic”!!! Cheers Dennis.