repton:
Can’t find about the train weight though but if you post a photo of the manufacturers plate (usually under the bonnet somewhere) that will help us tell you that.Paul
The GTW will be the GVW plus the towing capacity - at least thats what I have found to be the case in every case I have researched so far in the past two years
repton:
Here’s my link to prove my side of this argument:
Nice find. Curious as to why its hidden away in a document about horses, that does rather seal the deal for the actual vs plated debate.
Ian G:
repton:
Here’s my link to prove my side of this argument:Nice find. Curious as to why its hidden away in a document about horses, that does rather seal the deal for the actual vs plated debate.
I use the horsebox guide quite often as I know there is a bloke who reads and comments in Horse and Hound and also has a link to the roadside enforcement team 
rwg1951:
Wheel Nut:
Ian G:
repton:
Here’s my link to prove my side of this argument:Nice find. Curious as to why its hidden away in a document about horses, that does rather seal the deal for the actual vs plated debate.
I use the horsebox guide quite often as I know there is a bloke who reads and comments in Horse and Hound and also has a link to the roadside enforcement team
sorry if this rings stupid, I had a 109 landrover yonks ago, pulled a trailer with my fencing gear onboard, looking thru a website saw ad with 110 landrover fitted with digi tacho,I thought dual purpose vehs were excempt, so that changed has it?, your link shows one attached to horsebox, going over the top with tachos aren’t we, actually thinking of going back to fencing, this would put the kybosh on it.
That’s about it any business towing trailers outside a (I think) 50km radius need tacho. Probably ok for local builders but staggered you see any businesses with trailer where the tow vehicle is 3.5 ton and under. This seems to come about as VOSA have interpreted any normal business as hire&reward by saying that doing something for profit = reward. 
Looking through that horsebox guide is interesting. Yet again shows their primary obsession is rules over road safety, they’ll blame the EU but that’s mostly nonsense. One that struck me was stating that someone driving a horsebox over 7.5ton eg 18ton needs to use a tacho and if they have a full-time office job they could easily be in breach of drivers hours weekly rest rules.
What I find so astonishing about this is it’s effectively inciting overladen 7.5ton horseboxes on to the roads because they’re exempt from tacho when an 18ton would be a much safer vehicle and I fail to see how if someone can work in an office all week and safely drive a 7.5ton why that wouldn’t be the case for a 18ton. Particularly as 18 ton driver will have done a test in a lorry when most in 7.5ton will be on a pre '97 car licence.
Another thing in that guide that leapt out was where it talks about being ok to pull a trailer plated 3.5ton as long as you don’t actually load it to exceed the GTW of the combination that’s ok. Well, I know of several people who’ve been done for pulling empty 3.5ton trailers and either the police or VOSA saying that still exceeds the GTW because it’s the potental weight it can carry that matters. This also has been the case where they’ve caught younger drivers without B+E towing unladen trailers, the plated weight in the trailer is what’s taken as the weight. This guide effectively seems to say exactly the opposite of that.
Own Account Driver:
rwg1951:
Wheel Nut:
Ian G:
repton:
Here’s my link to prove my side of this argument:Nice find. Curious as to why its hidden away in a document about horses, that does rather seal the deal for the actual vs plated debate.
I use the horsebox guide quite often as I know there is a bloke who reads and comments in Horse and Hound and also has a link to the roadside enforcement team
sorry if this rings stupid, I had a 109 landrover yonks ago, pulled a trailer with my fencing gear onboard, looking thru a website saw ad with 110 landrover fitted with digi tacho,I thought dual purpose vehs were excempt, so that changed has it?, your link shows one attached to horsebox, going over the top with tachos aren’t we, actually thinking of going back to fencing, this would put the kybosh on it.
That’s about it any business towing trailers outside a (I think) 50km radius need tacho. Probably ok for local builders but staggered you see any businesses with trailer where the tow vehicle is 3.5 ton and under. This seems to come about as VOSA have interpreted any normal business as hire&reward by saying that doing something for profit = reward.
Looking through that horsebox guide is interesting. Yet again shows their primary obsession is rules over road safety, they’ll blame the EU but that’s mostly nonsense. One that struck me was stating that someone driving a horsebox over 7.5ton eg 18ton needs to use a tacho and if they have a full-time office job they could easily be in breach of drivers hours weekly rest rules.
What I find so astonishing about this is it’s effectively inciting overladen 7.5ton horseboxes on to the roads because they’re exempt from tacho when an 18ton would be a much safer vehicle and I fail to see how if someone can work in an office all week and safely drive a 7.5ton why that wouldn’t be the case for a 18ton. Particularly as 18 ton driver will have done a test in a lorry when most in 7.5ton will be on a pre '97 car licence.
Another thing in that guide that leapt out was where it talks about being ok to pull a trailer plated 3.5ton as long as you don’t actually load it to exceed the GTW of the combination that’s ok. Well, I know of several people who’ve been done for pulling empty 3.5ton trailers and either the police or VOSA saying that still exceeds the GTW because it’s the potental weight it can carry that matters. This also has been the case where they’ve caught younger drivers without B+E towing unladen trailers, the plated weight in the trailer is what’s taken as the weight. This guide effectively seems to say exactly the opposite of that.
Surely driving an 18 ton horsebox on your weekend off counts as private driving unless your doing it for h+w in which case you would have an o licence etc. so in that case how does one exceed drivers hours when they are exempt from them or have mis interpreted somthing somewhere?
redstormrising:
Surely driving an 18 ton horsebox on your weekend off counts as private driving unless your doing it for h+w in which case you would have an o licence etc. so in that case how does one exceed drivers hours when they are exempt from them or have mis interpreted somthing somewhere?
There is no longer any exemption for private use in the rules so technically you still have to stick to the rules on anything over 7500kg MGW even if it’s not for hire and reward. The horsey document from VOSA linked earlier in this thread explains this.
Paul
Another thing in that guide that leapt out was where it talks about being ok to pull a trailer plated 3.5ton as long as you don’t actually load it to exceed the GTW of the combination that’s ok. Well, I know of several people who’ve been done for pulling empty 3.5ton trailers and either the police or VOSA saying that still exceeds the GTW because it’s the potental weight it can carry that matters. This also has been the case where they’ve caught younger drivers without B+E towing unladen trailers, the plated weight in the trailer is what’s taken as the weight. This guide effectively seems to say exactly the opposite of that.
Own Account Driver
SENIOR MEMBER
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 11:31 pm
This is not correct has I to have had this out with Vosa, who rang me back!!! to appologise and say I was right. That’s like driving a artic towing an M/T multi axle trailer and saying well you could put 200 ton on it.
repton:
redstormrising:
Surely driving an 18 ton horsebox on your weekend off counts as private driving unless your doing it for h+w in which case you would have an o licence etc. so in that case how does one exceed drivers hours when they are exempt from them or have mis interpreted somthing somewhere?There is no longer any exemption for private use in the rules so technically you still have to stick to the rules on anything over 7500kg MGW even if it’s not for hire and reward. The horsey document from VOSA linked earlier in this thread explains this.
Paul
So all the old boys running about in classic fodens etc to shows and things have to stick to drivers hours? That’s seems a bit silly. Time we got out the EU.
redstormrising:
repton:
redstormrising:
Surely driving an 18 ton horsebox on your weekend off counts as private driving unless your doing it for h+w in which case you would have an o licence etc. so in that case how does one exceed drivers hours when they are exempt from them or have mis interpreted somthing somewhere?There is no longer any exemption for private use in the rules so technically you still have to stick to the rules on anything over 7500kg MGW even if it’s not for hire and reward. The horsey document from VOSA linked earlier in this thread explains this.
Paul
So all the old boys running about in classic fodens etc to shows and things have to stick to drivers hours? That’s seems a bit silly. Time we got out the EU.
I think the following covers Historic vehicles.
Article 3
This Regulation shall not apply to carriage by road by:(i) commercial vehicles, which have a historic status
according to the legislation of the Member State in
which they are being driven and which are used for the
non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods.
I think you’ll find if we leave the EU we’d still be driving under AETR regs
rwg1951:
Wheel Nut:
Ian G:
repton:
Here’s my link to prove my side of this argument:Nice find. Curious as to why its hidden away in a document about horses, that does rather seal the deal for the actual vs plated debate.
I use the horsebox guide quite often as I know there is a bloke who reads and comments in Horse and Hound and also has a link to the roadside enforcement team
sorry if this rings stupid, I had a 109 landrover yonks ago, pulled a trailer with my fencing gear onboard, looking thru a website saw ad with 110 landrover fitted with digi tacho,I thought dual purpose vehs were excempt, so that changed has it?, your link shows one attached to horsebox, going over the top with tachos aren’t we, actually thinking of going back to fencing, this would put the kybosh on it.
I used to run a Defender 110 towing a 3500KG trailer moving cars, I had a tacho in the Landrover. The dual purpose exemption was for O-license, and is still valid! I had a long phone chat and nice letter from a top bod at VOSA about it all. Basically there was no way I would be exempt from tacho, it was clearly hire & reward, but I did not need the O license. Duel purpose comes in for any 4x4 vehicle. I think it gets a bit different with vehicles like the Landrover Defender 130 or small unimogs though as they are too heavy.
Now, I was always under the impression that if you towed a trailer with your tools in, you did not require a tacho. So, if you were, like you say, putting up fences, you wouldn’t need one as you are not being paid to drive, you are being paid to put up fences and just moving your tools and materials. As this never had any impact for me I never looked into it further, but was told quite a few times. Likewise you are exempt if moving your own goods, eg moving a car you have just bought.