dazcapri:
There was a guy on a car forum I’m on was told to leave his trailer behind in a layby because it exceeded the train weight of his car, he even told the plod he was only moving the empty trailer to his garage but was told he would be overweight if it was loaded so he couldn’t pull it.
The plod was talking nonsense. Think about it… My artic bulker semi trailer is plated at 37500kg gross. My 6x2 tractor unit weighs around 7500kg. So if I loaded my trailer up to it’s maximum permissible weight of 37500kg my total gross weight would be 45000kg which as I’m sure we all know is 1000kg over the GTW of a 6 axle rig. I can’t see any plod trying to tell me I had to leave that trailer in a layby because I might just load it up to the maximum capacity…
HTH,
Paul
Don’t think the plod was right myself like I said I just read this on another forum,it was a while back now and I can’t remember the outcome of it.
limeyphil:
i’m a little curious as to where people get there vehicle weights from?
last time i weighed a car, it was a kia sedona. it was less than 2 tons.
a ford granada mk2 was 1.2 tons, and a mk3 ■■■■■■ was 750 kilos, and that was an average car.
my 7.5 ton ford cargo tipper weighed less than 4 tons.
so why do people think that average cars weigh 1.5 to 2 tons?
New cars are heavier than you think I weighed in a Mondeo a couple of years back and it was well over a ton
limeyphil:
i’m a little curious as to where people get there vehicle weights from?
last time i weighed a car, it was a kia sedona. it was less than 2 tons.
a ford granada mk2 was 1.2 tons, and a mk3 ■■■■■■ was 750 kilos, and that was an average car.
my 7.5 ton ford cargo tipper weighed less than 4 tons.
so why do people think that average cars weigh 1.5 to 2 tons?
cars are heavier than they used to be. i don’t think you’re going to get a focus, equivalent to your mk3 ■■■■■■, on the scales anywhere near 750kg
AHT:
Not sure how it translates to HGVs but certainly for cars and vans you cant pull a trailer thats plated over the maximum plated towing weight of the tow vehicle
Can you link me to any proof of this? A lot of people are saying I am sticking by my belief that it is completely wrong until someone can link me to some legislation that proves otherwise. If it was true that 90% of people towing 3.5ton plant trailers are doing so illegally as very very few vehicles are plated to tow the full 3500kg.
AHT:
The obvious answer is to get the trailer down plated
The obvious answer is to Do Nothing as you are not breaking the law.
limeyphil:
i’m a little curious as to where people get there vehicle weights from?
last time i weighed a car, it was a kia sedona. it was less than 2 tons.
a ford granada mk2 was 1.2 tons, and a mk3 ■■■■■■ was 750 kilos, and that was an average car.
my 7.5 ton ford cargo tipper weighed less than 4 tons.
so why do people think that average cars weigh 1.5 to 2 tons?
Cars are a lot heavier now than they used to be. I just had a quick look at the Ford and Vauxhall websites and they don’t specify weights on there but a Vectra/Mondeo class car is not going to be under 1500kg these days.
AHT:
Not sure how it translates to HGVs but certainly for cars and vans you cant pull a trailer thats plated over the maximum plated towing weight of the tow vehicle
The paragraph that prove my point is on page 18 and I will copy it below with the most important bit in bold:
For example, a towing vehicle with a plated
gross weight of 3 tonnes and a plated train
weight of 5 tonnes, could feasibly tow a
trailer with a maximum gross weight of 3.5
tonnes. However, if both the vehicle and
trailer in the combination were loaded to their
respective maximum gross weights, then the
combination’s maximum train weight would be
exceeded by 1.5 tonnes. It’s the actual weight of the vehicle and load which is important in determining a vehicle’s compliance with legal weight thresholds, not the potential carrying capacity
So next time any of you get stopped by an over keen plod tell them to stick it as they’re wrong…
AHT:
Not sure how it translates to HGVs but certainly for cars and vans you cant pull a trailer thats plated over the maximum plated towing weight of the tow vehicle
Can you link me to any proof of this? A lot of people are saying I am sticking by my belief that it is completely wrong until someone can link me to some legislation that proves otherwise. If it was true that 90% of people towing 3.5ton plant trailers are doing so illegally as very very few vehicles are plated to tow the full 3500kg.
Paul
I think the confusion might be to do with licences required to pull trailers with a car or van. For that the MAM of the combination defines what licence you need, not the weight you are pulling the time of being stopped.
As far as I understand as long as you don’t exceed the GTW of the vehicle and design weight of the trailer or axle weights then having a higher MAM than allowed isn’t a problem, provided you have the correct licence for a vehicle and trailer.
However all this van a trailer stuff is confusing and has been changing so it’s no wonder that your average copper can get confused.
I’ve been looking into it for my boss and I think I’ve steered him towards the idea of getting a 7.5t instead.
This is taken from the Direct Gov site that covers motoring laws and regulations as well as other citizen advice info. Franky.
Towing trailers or caravans with vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes
In this article reference is made to the maximum authorised mass (MAM) of vehicles and trailers. This should be taken to mean the permissible maximum weight, also known as the gross vehicle weight.
Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:
-a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Whereas
-the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
-Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle’s handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.
AHT:
Not sure how it translates to HGVs but certainly for cars and vans you cant pull a trailer thats plated over the maximum plated towing weight of the tow vehicle
Can you link me to any proof of this? A lot of people are saying I am sticking by my belief that it is completely wrong until someone can link me to some legislation that proves otherwise. If it was true that 90% of people towing 3.5ton plant trailers are doing so illegally as very very few vehicles are plated to tow the full 3500kg.
AHT:
The obvious answer is to get the trailer down plated
The obvious answer is to Do Nothing as you are not breaking the law.
Paul
Dont know where to find the actally legislatin but i have a look on the 4x4 forums and read the posts from people who have been pulled for it, also several trailer places have advised me and they will plate up the trailers to match the towing vehicle.
Although looking at the horsebox leflet you posted it may be all wong, but i would be cautiour as i have heard far to many people talk about it
Frankydobo:
This is taken from the Direct Gov site that covers motoring laws and regulations as well as other citizen advice info.
That refers to people who only have B on their licence though, not B+E. If you took your car test after Jan1997 and haven’t done B+E or C+E since then it is true that the rules for towing trailer behind cars are as you quoted but those (rather silly and overcomplicated) rules do not apply if you have B+E.
AHT:
Dont know where to find the actally legislatin but i have a look on the 4x4 forums and read the posts from people who have been pulled for it, also several trailer places have advised me and they will plate up the trailers to match the towing vehicle.
Although looking at the horsebox leflet you posted it may be all wong, but i would be cautiour as i have heard far to many people talk about it
Those who have been pulled and done for it have either been the victim of an incompetent police/vosa official or they only have B and not B+E then. The horsebox leaflet I quoted is a Government/VOSA publication so it should be right (although of course they have been known to be wrong on occasion but I’m certain they aren’t in this case).
Not that it matters to me as the old Land Rover I tow with is plated at 3050kg with a train weight of 6550kg so I can legally tow the full 3500kg.
muckles:
I think the confusion might be to do with licences required to pull trailers with a car or van. For that the MAM of the combination defines what licence you need, not the weight you are pulling the time of being stopped.
As far as I understand as long as you don’t exceed the GTW of the vehicle and design weight of the trailer or axle weights then having a higher MAM than allowed isn’t a problem, provided you have the correct licence for a vehicle and trailer.
You could well be right on that one, if you only have B on your licence then the trailer MAM is relevant. If you have trailer entitlement (B+E or C+E), which will probably cover most people on this forum, then as long as the actual weight of the trailer is within the capability of the towing vehicle then there is no issue.
limeyphil:
i’m a little curious as to where people get there vehicle weights from?
last time i weighed a car, it was a kia sedona. it was less than 2 tons.
a ford granada mk2 was 1.2 tons, and a mk3 ■■■■■■ was 750 kilos, and that was an average car.
my 7.5 ton ford cargo tipper weighed less than 4 tons.
so why do people think that average cars weigh 1.5 to 2 tons?
an ■■■■■■ that weighs less than 750kg hasn’t got an engine in it
The lightest car on the market and it weighs 730kg
Ok as I now do this for a living and run a ■■■■■■ and trailer here’s the low down
3300 john, it doesn’t matter at all about your trailer being 3.5 ton gross I have had this out with Vosa at Swansea and when I pointed out that this would make every lorry on the road illegal IE. trailer gross weight say 33 ton unit 3 axle what say 26 ton , you can see this would take it up over 44 ton, so anyway they phoned me back to apologize, so long as you don’t exceed the train weight your ok.
The myth about tacho’s, if you use a trailer you need to use the tacho, but once you use it, you have to use it for the rest of the week, but you don’t need to keep records, that was the old law before Dec 4th 2011, when from that date you need an O Licence, although they are giving 6 months grace. and I’ve not got mine yet so if anyone wants to earn some extra dosh and stand as my CPC holder, give me a shout.
repton:
That refers to people who only have B on their licence though, not B+E. If you took your car test after Jan1997 and haven’t done B+E or C+E since then it is true that the rules for towing trailer behind cars are as you quoted but those (rather silly and overcomplicated) rules do not apply if you have B+E.
Paul
Yeah there is another part to this about the B+E and vehicles over 3.5 tonne but I didn’t put it up as the original post was about 3.5 tonne vehicles towing a trailer and he never mentioned the licence held. The rules are as you say complicated and the very reason why people get it wrong including our boys in blue. I got stopped for speeding on the A1, doing 50mph, I pointed out the law had changed from 40 to 50 for HGV’s on dual carriageways(only that week) after a bit spluttering the cop checked with control and said I was correct, never got an apology but he wasn’t too pleased he hadn’t been informed of the change so they aren’t the be all and end all of regulations. The simple rule must be check with the appropriate authority before doing something, it might save a lot of heartache later, in this case VOSA. I can’t understand why guys ask questions on here when they get several answers most of which aren’t correct.
Frankydobo:
The simple rule must be check with the appropriate authority before doing something, it might save a lot of heartache later, in this case VOSA. I can’t understand why guys ask questions on here when they get several answers most of which aren’t correct.
Firstly because it is an open forum, and that is how they work, somebody poses a question, they get several answers which are then discussed openly and common sense prevails.
I spend much of my week either on the telephone or emailing VOSA or DVLA and if I do get a written reply it is normally signed off and ended with this or a similar proviso.
Ultimately of course, it is for the Courts to interpret the legislation. I hope this helps though.
Happydaze:
I have: A 2009 Ford Ranger (4X4 version)
A Class 1 Licence
A Need for a trailer
Please someone tell me what is the legal max I can tow (load and trailer) and also the max train weight.
A quick google suggests a maximum trailer weight (that is the ACTUAL weight, not the plated weight) of 3000kg. Can’t find about the train weight though but if you post a photo of the manufacturers plate (usually under the bonnet somewhere) that will help us tell you that.
LAW = As long as none of those weights are actually exceeded then the combination is LEGAL
The driver now has the capacity to distribute a maximum actual weight (GTW) of 6000 between the van and trailer as they see fit
There is no law which states that the capacity to load more than 6000 is illegal
If there was then the fact that the axle weights on a plate add up to more than the GVW on every vehicle I know of would make then all illegal !!!
There are only three reasons I can think of for downplating a trailer
To keep within the rukes for B licence towing
To keep out of the O licence regs
For cheaper road tax
That would need a B+E licence to tow any trailer over 750 kgs MAM
You have a B+E because you have C+E
3020-1850=1170 max load for the ranger - that includes driver passengers fuel etc etc
Max actual weight for the trailer would be 3000 so deduct whatever the uladen weight of the trailer is from the 3000 and it leaves what can be loaded onto it
The trailer can be plated to as much as 3500 but the 3000 towing limit (actual weight when loaded) must not be exceeded
