albion1971:
Sorry but it has nothing to do with the companies. It is the responsibility of the driver how he or she drives.
I worked for a tipper company briefly in the West Midlands and did not change my style of driving just to suit them.
After all there is a driver shortage.
I can immediately think of one West Midlands tipper company where one of the owners demands to see drivers tachos if he feels they havenāt done enough loads and demands to know why drivers have one load less than other drivers. Being agency I donāt get involved with that, but it constant pressure on their regular drivers all of the time, keep pushing and pushing them all the while. They were actually on VOSAās āred listā a couple of years ago with drivers regular infringements, they were choosing to completely ignore. In that instance, I would suggest it has very much to do with the company. I have first hand experience of this company doing agency work for them, so know exactly what they like.
Another West Midlands tipper company pays the grand sum of just Ā£7 hour with the rest made up with a punitive load bonus. I have absolutely no idea how they would actually survive on that money without the bonus. When I do agency work for them, I am on Ā£100 week more than their regular drivers - go figure!
We have to remember that ādangerous drivingā is more about the fact the vehicle was in a dangerous condition - not particularly the way it was driven. If it was the way it was driven it would be more reckless or undue care.
shep532:
We have to remember that ādangerous drivingā is more about the fact the vehicle was in a dangerous condition - not particularly the way it was driven. If it was the way it was driven it would be more reckless or undue care.
Dangerous driving covers everything from driving standards to vehicle condition and load security etc.
shep532:
We have to remember that ādangerous drivingā is more about the fact the vehicle was in a dangerous condition - not particularly the way it was driven. If it was the way it was driven it would be more reckless or undue care.
Dangerous driving can also be the manner of driving, it is considered that the driver has fallen far below the standard expected and more so than the offence of careless or inconsiderate driving or due care and attention. I donāt know if there is an offence in UK law of Reckless driving.
The company owner has been charged with Aiding and Abetting and also charged with Dangerous Driving.
muckles:
I donāt know if there is an offence in UK law of Reckless driving.
I donāt think so. I think the levels are just āDriving without due care and attentionā, āCareless drivingā and āDangerous drivingā.
toby1234abc:
The authorities in this case have kept quiet about all the facts, I smell a rat
I suspect it is more likely to be a case of not wanting to fall foul of the sub judice rules and cause the case to be thrown out due to prejudicial media coverage.
I have my own opinions on the likely cause of the crash (and the reason why the company director has also been charged), but Iām waiting for the details to become public rather than joining the TNUKCSI ranks and speculating.
albion1971:
Sorry but it has nothing to do with the companies. It is the responsibility of the driver how he or she drives.
I worked for a tipper company briefly in the West Midlands and did not change my style of driving just to suit them.
After all there is a driver shortage.
I can immediately think of one West Midlands tipper company where one of the owners demands to see drivers tachos if he feels they havenāt done enough loads and demands to know why drivers have one load less than other drivers. Being agency I donāt get involved with that, but it constant pressure on their regular drivers all of the time, keep pushing and pushing them all the while. They were actually on VOSAās āred listā a couple of years ago with drivers regular infringements, they were choosing to completely ignore. In that instance, I would suggest it has very much to do with the company. I have first hand experience of this company doing agency work for them, so know exactly what they like.
Another West Midlands tipper company pays the grand sum of just Ā£7 hour with the rest made up with a punitive load bonus. I have absolutely no idea how they would actually survive on that money without the bonus. When I do agency work for them, I am on Ā£100 week more than their regular drivers - go figure!
I understand exactly what you are saying and I know there are companies that operate that way but a driver does not have to accept the job if they think they will be expected to break the law to earn a decent wage.
There are plenty of other jobs where you do not have to drive like an idiot to earn a living.
All responsibility is down to the driver the way he drives. I do not see anyway how a company can be held responsible for that.
albion1971:
I understand exactly what you are saying and I know there are companies that operate that way but a driver does not have to accept the job if they think they will be expected to break the law to earn a decent wage.
There are plenty of other jobs where you do not have to drive like an idiot to earn a living.
Even though I fly along in tippers, I am one of those rare breeds that sticks rigidly to the speed limits, not just in trucks but my car too. There is a world of difference between driving rapidly and driving recklessly. Sadly, many so called professional drivers have little concept of that.
There just seems to be a plethora of lorry accidents nowadays, where no other vehicle is involved and tipper lorries seem to be in a disproportionate amount of these accidents, especially where pedestrians or cyclists end up as casualties.
albion1971:
I understand exactly what you are saying and I know there are companies that operate that way but a driver does not have to accept the job if they think they will be expected to break the law to earn a decent wage.
There are plenty of other jobs where you do not have to drive like an idiot to earn a living.
Even though I fly along in tippers, I am one of those rare breeds that sticks rigidly to the speed limits, not just in trucks but my car too. There is a world of difference between driving rapidly and driving recklessly. Sadly, many so called professional drivers have little concept of that.
There just seems to be a plethora of lorry accidents nowadays, where no other vehicle is involved and tipper lorries seem to be in a disproportionate amount of these accidents, especially where pedestrians or cyclists end up as casualties.
Good to hear about you stick to the limits especially in your truck. Would not call 30 40 50 or 60 flying along though kinda know what you mean.
Kr79 is right the other driver is the company director and yes they were in a restriction but delivering to a school site (Iāve been reliably informed they were following the approved route too). The lorry has been practically rebuilt and dismantled by investigators (as Iāve been told). Iāve not worked with Grittenhams but I used to see them on Hillsā tip at Shorncote and their lorries always looked tidy, albeit older ones (the one in the crash was ex Chris Miller of Lechlade, hence the āCMTā on the reg plate. Their drivers always seemed nice enough too, no jumping the potholes etc on the tip to get past you like so many do.
Liberty Guy, you werenāt referring to a certain Nuneaton firm that run MANs were you? They are a bunch of (mainly EE) nutcases.
Best drivers I have met in my life have been Tipper Drivers.
Worst drivers I have met in my life have been Multi Droppers for āsoldier companiesā, - P&H, Bidwest, Reynolds etcā¦
Claiming Tipper Drivers are bad drivers is pure stupidity - widely spread stupidity.
I have met driving instructors and examinors that donāt know what liquids can go where in engine room of a truckā¦ that only knows how to talk how bad tipper drivers areā¦
I have met many overrated - self proclaimed decade, Europe, Alp trampers supertruckers that are worse in driving than 19 year old tipper driver but only knows how to talk bad about tipper driversā¦
I have met overpriced specialist drivers on 4k a month that only knows how to talk bad about tipper driversā¦
This is complete BS what is going on in talks about tipper driversā¦
But they know themselves how good they are so it doesnt matter what you all talkā¦
Good tipper driver working in right company knows better than average hgv driver how to drive, how to check vehicle, how to feel when something is wrong with vehicle and in some situations - if required how to fix things.
Albion tipper firms around here are starting to monitor harsh braking, believe it or not. They still push their drivers though, then use the tracker data as a means to sack them.
Regarding the rushing about the trouble is, thereās always a firm willing to do the muck shift at a loss just to stop someone else getting it. They tend to pay day rates to the drivers which also gets the drivers into the mindset of getting the job done faster, meaning their hourly rate appears better.
Iām happy with my hourly wage, though many of the big firms around here pay more, plus unfathomable bonuses that vary from driver to driver even if theyāve done the same jobs all week and same number of loads. Me and an ex colleague proved this on comparing wage slips. Iād earned Ā£10 bonus more.
Things are slowly improving, I think down to a lot of drivers starting out in the tipper game but bringing a relaxed attitude from other areas in transport.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Even though I fly along in tippers, I am one of those rare breeds that sticks rigidly to the speed limits, not just in trucks but my car too.
Good to hear about you stick to the limits especially in your truck. Would not call 30 40 50 or 60 flying along though kinda know what you mean.
I said I rigidly stick to the speed limits, I didnāt say I slow down from themā¦
Muckaway:
Liberty Guy, you werenāt referring to a certain Nuneaton firm that run MANs were you? They are a bunch of (mainly EE) nutcases.
No, these two are another company - with one hundred percent home grown nuttersā¦
Whilst many might disagree, as long as companies (not just tippers) keep offering load bonus schemes, or other performance related bonus payments, or even just the office bod keep constantly chasing drivers on the cabphone, then they create an environment where some drivers are likely to do stupid things.
They still push their drivers though, then use the tracker data as a means to sack them.
