2-1 or 1-1 training?

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
21

When I had my training I did 2:1 on Cat C and 1:1 on CE. Having experienced both I can honestly say that I don’t know which is better than the other.

On 2:1 I was able to learn from the other trainees mistakes as well as the things he did well whilst he was driving.

I had the same instructor for my 1:1 CE training and felt comfortable straight away and liked the more intense but shorter days.

I passed both tests first time so I don’t think it’s possible for me to say which type of training is better.

22

I think 2-1 can work well, IF the instructor is fair about carving up the time equally and offers decent structured training. I did 2-1 for both rigid and artic. For rigid, I did nothing the first morning as the other guy had a test and I actually got 1-1 all afternoon which made up for it.
For artic, the other candidate was an old school taxi driver in his 60’s. Lovely guy but drove like a man possessed and it took me 2.5 days to stop gripping the door handle. He ran a red light on a roundabout once and I was on the point of jumping out. Also liked approaching stationary traffic at 20pmh and then testing the brakes. He actually got advised not to take the test without more training. None of this affected my training, I still learned from his mistakes and he simply didn’t progress onto the harder routes until much later in the week. It gave me a confidence boost and I passed.

My conclusion - like all aspects of training - it all depends on the school/instructor and how they work. Having a good instructor is more important than whether they teach 2-1 or 1-1 in my opinion.

23

It’s good to read other people’s views on this subject. My personal opinion is that 2:1 is the better option although we do offer both choices. There are several reasons for this.

  1. Our courses are normally 16 hours inc test, often less subject to assessment. Because they are short I find the time is better spent explaining key points to 2 people rather than covering them twice in a single day to each person separately.

  2. The test drive is 1 hour long. By rotating drivers in 1 hour shifts starting at the test centre they are able to concentrate for the same amount of time as a test takes. The actual test just feels like another lesson.

3.most people take the whole day off work for training. Why not therefore spend the whole day being trained.

  1. When observing from the passenger seat it is clear to see the other person drive from the examiners point of view.

  2. Every single day many situations occur that could potentially destroy a test. A candidate will see far more of these in 8 hours than in 4.

These are just some of the benefits of 2:1 training. Passing the test is about a lot more than just driving ability. It requires an understanding of the examiners thought process. Many factors like weather, traffic volume, school times, even position of sun in the sky affect the outcome. The more time spent in the truck the better.

24

Quite often the discussions between both trainees can mean that they both progress quicker

25

Think i’m converting to the idea of 2:1 training. Some valid points raised, and with Elmet Training being one of my potential trainers, its something i’ll be seriously considering.

26

ROG:
Quite often the discussions between both trainees can mean that they both progress quicker

100% agree. The other thing on a similar note is that on the reversing and drop/catch our instructor would manage to effectively teach both at once e.g. Tim, what does Harry need to do to sort out that mess, and I’d say “left hand down quickly”, or Harry, watch Tim’s drop and catch and score him out of ten, thereby covering can Tim do it and does Harry knows what Tim should be doing both at once.

For the record I’m sure 1-1 also has benefits but felt the point should be made that 2-1 is not an automatic disaster. It’s also likely that different people are suited to the different methods.

27

bagz:
Think i’m converting to the idea of 2:1 training. Some valid points raised, and with Elmet Training being one of my potential trainers, its something i’ll be seriously considering.

It’s looking like I’m going to give it a trial at the start of the new year. Of course if someone wants the 1-1 option I will accommodate them.

The 2-1 option will be quite a bit cheaper than 1-1 training.

Paul

28

elmet training:
The 2-1 option will be quite a bit cheaper than 1-1 training.

Hi Paul. I would love to understand the business model that makes the above statement possible. I should have thought that if you need to charge £? for 4 hours then you would need to charge £? X 2 for 8 hours with each student paying half the total cost. Maybe i’m missing something.

29

Your not missing anything John. Just me offering value for money training.

Paul :smiley:

30

Quite often the discussions between both trainees can mean that they both progress quicker

Wow! How dodgy is that!! I’ve heard such conversations and they can be based on total misinterpretation of what has been said. Or one trainee “helping” the other by quoting correctly what they have been told - but not understanding the contextual differences.

I’ll stick firmly with 1:1 and know that the information the trainee is getting is direct from a trainer who knows what he’s talking about for the surrounding circumstances.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

31

Just reading some training diaries on here and there’s comments like “Tuesday morning we took Joe for a retest, so I drove all afternoon instead”. What a waste of a Tuesday morning! And, if I was Joe, I wouldn’t appreciate someone else in the cab when I’m trying to get a test passed.

Over the last 40 years I’ve done plenty of both modes of training. I am convinced that 1:1 is better. Folk need to figure this out: if you are unlucky enough to fail, how does your retest happen? Assuming a one man operation (nothing wrong with that) who has 2 candidates booked week after week, something somewhere has to give. The only alternative is for the trainer to operate very uneconomically by not booking solid.

We’re fortunate that we have enough vehicles to be able to get around this situation.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

32

Peter Smythe:

Quite often the discussions between both trainees can mean that they both progress quicker

Wow! How dodgy is that!!

0%

They chat about their experiences in training not what must or must not be done in regards to the training as they know that is the job of the instructor

33

Interesting, we have always trained customers 1:1 like Pete, but we start with the customer at 8:30 and finish at 16:00, they get approx 7 hours training per day. Drivers don’t get tired especially now as our lorry training vehicles are all automatics and sooooooo easy to drive.

We set up business in the 1970’s and back then every company trained full days, didn’t half day 1:1 training come about as customers started demanding 1:1 training and as the majority of schools all trained 2:1 they had to find a way round the problem. As an instructor that trains one person all day i know it works well, our C courses are not the industry standard of 16 hours, ours are 21 hours over 3 days. Less time off work for the customer, businesses seem to prefer it and it gets great results. The only disadvantage is that we earn less money!

I did once train 9 school teachers to pass their tests in 3 hired minibuses, they all passed!

We have upgraded to auto gearboxes because with the manual trucks we needed 5 days 35 hour courses to get a 70%+ passrate, I really don’t know how any company can get above 50% with 4 half days (16 hours), I can’t see how the average driver could be confidently ready in that short time (but i’m sure instructors will try to put me right on this!). But now we have automatics we don’t have to concentrate on gears but can advance their driving ability much earlier and quicker, leading to better pass rate and a cheaper course than before, with less time off work.

Every customer is different, training multiples at once can be good, we try to do all our module 4 tests 2:1 as it works best due to the trainees being able to role play with each other. All comes down to choice.

34

What has come to light is that their is no wrong way.

All trainers on here have different ways of training which is great for the customer to have that choice.

All I can do is give 2-1 a little trial and see how it works for my business and customer.

At the moment the 1-1 training works great with excellent pass rates. So one does tend to think if it’s not broke why fix it.

Paul :smiley:

35

There clearly is no right or wrong way. Some trainers are restricted by only having 1 passenger seat in the vehicle. Some trainers like the flexibility of using 1 type of vehicle AM and another PM. As we have seen some find a whole day with 1 student works well.

As has been stated untold times on here a candidate should have several assessments and decide what they think will suit them best.

You only get 1 shot at choosing a trainer, it’s vital to get it right.

36

I’m quite surprised to see how this topic has developed. Normally all the trainers on here come to the same conclusion straight away. It’s interesting to see you all fighting your own corners for what works best for you/your trainee.

37

Good Afternoon.

I watch this forum regularly and with great interest. I believe it is an excellent resource for the new and aspiring drivers.

I have only ever responded to trainees of ours who have been on this forum to acknowledge their comments.

I would however like to add my comment to this debate although I do not believe there really is any right or wrong ratio, more relevant considerations are poor vehicles, poor tuition among other things.

I have been a Driver Trainer for twenty plus years and we have always run all our vehicles on a 2-1 ratio, my own opinion was/is that this is the industry norm and those that chose not to run this way were doing so due to vehicular operational reasons (single passenger seat) or the fact that they had insufficient workload to give a 2-1 training regime.

However there seems to be so many trainers out there now who prefer to offer this ratio irrespective of my above comment but I do feel that when a trainee goes through a three to four hour threshold the learning curve does drop dramatically.

The comment about a differing skill level I believe should be easily addressed by a competent trainer and when there is a marked difference in ability level the stronger trainee helps pull the weaker trainee up very well in my opinion.

The cost and time spent driving references as covered by earlier comments should be a moot point as cost and driving time should be the same for a 1-1 or a 2-1 trainee ratio pro rata.

The re-test comment I cannot quite understand, a re-test should never encroach on any programmed vehicle usage irrespective of a one vehicle operation or not, the earlier comments about 2-1 profiteering and this statement of non economical vehicle usage fly in each others face.

We have an enviable pass rate and I firmly believe that but one of the reasons for this is the fact that one trainee learns from the other as an observant passenger as mentioned earlier, just a couple of examples, if one or both trainees have limited knowledge of the the local road network as the non driver they have ample opportunity to gather good local knowledge without the need to be controlling the vehicle at the same time, another is the fact that drivers in general have their own opinion on how they are operating any given vehicle in their own minds eye and often nothing could be further from the truth so when guidance is offered to the trainee who is driving this will often trigger an understanding of a similar driving circumstance and therefore offering more clarity to the trainee, and the 2-1 ratio offers this and so much more.

What all training providers should consider is what is best for the trainee concerned and adapt to those needs accordingly if at all possible.

Alex McAra

Alex McAra HGV Training
www.hgv-psvtraining.co.uk

38

For those that do not know … ALEX MCARA is on the recommended list of training providers on this site :smiley:

39

After careful thought I have decided to continue with 1-1 training. This years first time pass rate is at 87% so I would be foolish to change what is working well for me.

Thanks for all the comments it’s been interesting reading :open_mouth:

Paul :smiley:

40

elmet training:
After careful thought I have decided to continue with 1-1 training. This years first time pass rate is at 87% so I would be foolish to change what is working well for me.

Thanks for all the comments it’s been interesting reading :open_mouth:

Paul :smiley:

Impressive pass rate Paul, think i’ll be giving you a call early next year :smiley: :smiley: