e-petition thanks 
OK.
We drivers are part of âthe service industryâ, as are the companies we work for.
We supply the âmovement of goodsâ service for our companies customers.
You would like drivers hours to be reduced and our wages increased. So we end up with the same money (or preferably better) for fewer hours worked. Right ?
So how is this wage increase going to be financed ?
We are part of a Europe wide, free market.
Our companies customers, who pay our companies for services rendered, can also make use of this free market.
The only way our bosses can finance the increased costs of higher wages/fewer hours worked is to increase the rates they charge their customers.
Those same customers are free to go elsewhere to get their transport services, which they will do.
Plenty of haulage companies will undercut these new, higher, rates.
Your company will go bust due to lack of work. Youâll be redundant.
If British supplied transport is going to cost ÂŁ2.00 per km, due to wage and hours demands from British drivers. But foreign transport will cost ÂŁ1.50 per km, who do you think our customers are going to give their work too ?
Combat that by making it EU legislation and restricting none EU foreign vehicles from working here. (Or UK law and prevent everyone else from working here.)
As we know, everything is moved by truck.
If the cost of moving it by truck increases, the cost of the item increases.
Your wages will go up, but so will the cost of everything.
So youâll be in exactly the same position you are in now, skint.
Just the number of ÂŁ notes required will have increased.
So, as far as I can see, you want to cut your own throat.
On top of all that, there is nothing we can do to prevent companies removing themselves from the UK employment market altogether. Plenty have already.
Phone Help Lines moving to Asia. OK, no-one can understand them, but the company doesnât care, they have done their bit and supplied a help line.
Electronics etc moving to China. OK again, itâs cheap and nasty but its so cheap, when it breaks you just buy a new one.
Ship building moving to Taiwan, Japan etc. Weâve still just about got British navy ships being built here, but at the moment weâre borrowing part of a French built (I think) French Aircraft carrier because we havenât got one of our own (or did they change their mind on that one?).
British Steel became British/Dutch Steel (Corus) and is now Indian Steel (Tata). OK they still employ British steel workers, but theyâll soon stop that if the cost of moving it gets too high.
You may say Iâm a doom-monger, itâll never go that far.
Youâre entitled to your opinion.
Iâm entitled to mine.
I hope your e-petition gets the 100,000 sigs it needs to get your suggestion discussed in Parliament. Remember that âdiscussedâ doesnât mean theyâll act on it, theyâll talk about it.
My signature wonât be on it.
Trukkertone:
when we had log books, was the total daily limit not 12Ă½ hrs â â
Aye that was the limit 2 days of the week 11 for the rest of the week. And it worked well it was clear and easy to understand which is more than can be said for the present set-up having just read through 4 pages and there is a few diffrent interpretations of various sections in other words as we would say north o the border ITâs AS CLEAR AS SHUCH WATER. Eddie.
Iâm afraid someone here understands things. Hats off to Simon. Wholeheartedly agree.
Simon:
OK.
We drivers are part of âthe service industryâ, as are the companies we work for.
We supply the âmovement of goodsâ service for our companies customers.You would like drivers hours to be reduced and our wages increased. So we end up with the same money (or preferably better) for fewer hours worked. Right ?
So how is this wage increase going to be financed ?
We are part of a Europe wide, free market.
Our companies customers, who pay our companies for services rendered, can also make use of this free market.
The only way our bosses can finance the increased costs of higher wages/fewer hours worked is to increase the rates they charge their customers.
Those same customers are free to go elsewhere to get their transport services, which they will do.
Plenty of haulage companies will undercut these new, higher, rates.
Your company will go bust due to lack of work. Youâll be redundant.If British supplied transport is going to cost ÂŁ2.00 per km, due to wage and hours demands from British drivers. But foreign transport will cost ÂŁ1.50 per km, who do you think our customers are going to give their work too ?
Combat that by making it EU legislation and restricting none EU foreign vehicles from working here. (Or UK law and prevent everyone else from working here.)As we know, everything is moved by truck.
If the cost of moving it by truck increases, the cost of the item increases.
Your wages will go up, but so will the cost of everything.
So youâll be in exactly the same position you are in now, skint.
Just the number of ÂŁ notes required will have increased.So, as far as I can see, you want to cut your own throat.
By paying a small amount less of the profit to shareholders and/or the owner?
The cost of delivering something includes a large profit for someone⌠you could pay the driver a little more and still sell the item at the same price. But that would reduce the profit for the âsomeone.â
Iâm not saying it will happen. Only that it could do. 
Just a quick question Overworked and UnderpayedâŚhow long have you been in the transport game and where did you work before you joined the long hours lorry driving crusadeâŚ
Truckulent:
Simon:
OK.
We drivers are part of âthe service industryâ, as are the companies we work for.
We supply the âmovement of goodsâ service for our companies customers.You would like drivers hours to be reduced and our wages increased. So we end up with the same money (or preferably better) for fewer hours worked. Right ?
So how is this wage increase going to be financed ?
We are part of a Europe wide, free market.
Our companies customers, who pay our companies for services rendered, can also make use of this free market.
The only way our bosses can finance the increased costs of higher wages/fewer hours worked is to increase the rates they charge their customers.
Those same customers are free to go elsewhere to get their transport services, which they will do.
Plenty of haulage companies will undercut these new, higher, rates.
Your company will go bust due to lack of work. Youâll be redundant.If British supplied transport is going to cost ÂŁ2.00 per km, due to wage and hours demands from British drivers. But foreign transport will cost ÂŁ1.50 per km, who do you think our customers are going to give their work too ?
Combat that by making it EU legislation and restricting none EU foreign vehicles from working here. (Or UK law and prevent everyone else from working here.)As we know, everything is moved by truck.
If the cost of moving it by truck increases, the cost of the item increases.
Your wages will go up, but so will the cost of everything.
So youâll be in exactly the same position you are in now, skint.
Just the number of ÂŁ notes required will have increased.So, as far as I can see, you want to cut your own throat.
By paying a small amount less of the profit to shareholders and/or the owner?
The cost of delivering something includes a large profit for someone⌠you could pay the driver a little more and still sell the item at the same price. But that would reduce the profit for the âsomeone.â
Iâm not saying it will happen. Only that it could do.
the trouble is that the so called large profits are not on the haulage side and thatâs who pays the drivers wages, the rates have been driven down over the years by the large companies on small profit but large turnover, so how are you going to get the money out of the chain and back to the haulier I do not know 
Truckulent:
The cost of delivering something includes a large profit for someoneâŚ
It does? Who exactly?
I used to drive for BRS Taskforce, NFCs in house driver agency.
NFC was the umbrella company name of BRS, Exel Logistics, Tankfreight, Lynx and Pickfords.
I worked on all sorts of jobs for all sorts of household names and saw Wincanton taking over contracts left right and centre. They got those contracts by cutting their profit margin against what NFC were taking. The remains of NFC were later bought over by DHL.
So big, international logistics companies sell their services by undercutting the other guys.
Just the same as the little guys who want to be on the up.
eddie snax:
Euro:
more than one hgv driver per week is killed at work
fatigue is a major factor in traffic accidents
More than half of truckers marriages fail
hgv wages are less than other professionals
hgv drivers work longer hours than average workers
the value of driver hours would increase if their supply was reduced
the price of driver hours is in-elastic. i.e. a reduction in supply of driver hours would cause a proportionately greater rise in driver hour prices.I think youâll find that the stat on logistic workers death at over 60 a year, is not all driver, this includes other workers working for logistic/hualage operations, but I am prepared to be re-educated on that, though any death at work is a tragedy.
Many drivers relationships that fail would most likely fail regardless of hours done in this industry. It is possible to have a decent marriage tramping, I know because I do, I also know that relationships fail, done that aswell, but the job just enhances underlying problems, but the job gets the blame.
The sooner we stop this high minded attitude off Professionalism, and realise like so many other so called professionals that we are skilled tradesmen, then the sooner we might get a dose off reallity. I did not go to University for several years to get my qualification, and find it an insult to true professionals (doctors, lawyers, teachers etc) that I wish to consider my trade as at the same level as theirs. I know I could not do their jobs, but for the sake off a couple of grand for couple off weeks training they couild do mine.
It isnt as cut and dried as that, many" proper professionals" and other tradesmen do long hours, or even work away, but they dont spend time bleating about it. Lots of people dont realise the hours truckers work, and probably think that if we start early we go home at the same time as the milkman. I know, that as today were Iâm at a premises for a 4 hour tip, quite often guys say to me âthats allright for you just sitting aboutâ, I normaly respond with something like âyou wouldnt have said that at 2am when I was loading your boxâ. so we shouldnt assume we are the only long hours workers.
It never has been the case, or at least in my expeirience that if there is a shortage off drivers for what ever reason, reduction in working time(not happened yet), or lack off replacment through poor working conditions, causes an increase in wage rates, their is allways someone coming along to do the job. recently its east europeans, back in nineties it was ex squaddies ( just to say this is no dig at anyone looking for work for what ever reason), soon itâl be someone else. They come and the good ones stay, and the bad ones get filtered out. Which I feel kinda backs up my veiws on professionalism.
We just keep on trucking, its a good job. I love it, havent liked all the firms iâve worked for. havent allways been on good money, or had top range trucks, driven Renaults for 15 years in one form or another.got a globby at the mo
Thanks for typing all this. It saves me doing it.
Simon:
Truckulent:
The cost of delivering something includes a large profit for someoneâŚIt does? Who exactly?
I used to drive for BRS Taskforce, NFCs in house driver agency.
NFC was the umbrella company name of BRS, Exel Logistics, Tankfreight, Lynx and Pickfords.
I worked on all sorts of jobs for all sorts of household names and saw Wincanton taking over contracts left right and centre. They got those contracts by cutting their profit margin against what NFC were taking. The remains of NFC were later bought over by DHL.
So big, international logistics companies sell their services by undercutting the other guys.
Just the same as the little guys who want to be on the up.
Makes you wonder then, if they are making nothing why they bother trading doesnât it? And itâs clearly their own fault! As a driver, I would simply not work for them. Problem solved.
And yes, I know folk have to earn. But there are jobs out there that pay decently. So if what you are saying is always true, how come the firms who pay decently are still trading?
overworked/underpaid:
Is it not time the 15 hour rule should be changed to 12 hours,as more and more companies are planning 15 hour work loads every day, Tesco and many others, by the time you have done 15 hours work plus travel to and from work had a shower and something to eat, you are around the 17+ hours mark before you hit the sack, surely this is wrong!, is it not time we did something about this like an e-petition or something, is 12 hours not enough!E-petition is now ready to be signed please tell others and follow link to sign
epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48547Thankyou.
p.s dont forget to click on your email link to confirm you signature
Quit moaning FFS ⌠You get paid by the hours donât you ? If you donât want to do it all you have to do is say âNOâ
Driving lorries has always been associated with long hours. Why start doing a job like this then complain about the hours?
Itâs like jumping in the sea then complaining about being wet.
Itâs not even working for 15 hours. driving is the working part, and you can only do that for 10 hours at the most.
thereâs far too many soft arsed, canât do, wonât do fools that call themselves lorry drivers nowadays.
For once , I totally agree with you Phil 
Too many moaners in this industry , you have a choice to be a truck driver . Why expect a 9-5 lifestyle in a 24/7/365 job ?
Iâve only read bits of this thread, but if you donât like doing 15 hour days then youâre in the wrong job. I agree with Simon.
Personally, if I got paid by the hour then bring it on. It would make up for the average wage in some cases. If you want shorter hours and more money, go work in the supermarket warehouses.
Well said limyphil. Too many people want something for nothing these days.
limeyphil:
Driving lorries has always been associated with long hours. Why start doing a job like this then complain about the hours?
Itâs like jumping in the sea then complaining about being wet.
Itâs not even working for 15 hours. driving is the working part, and you can only do that for 10 hours at the most.
thereâs far too many soft arsed, canât do, wonât do fools that call themselves lorry drivers nowadays.
Driving, loading/unloading, paperwork, securing loads, dealing with customers/office staff, cab minding if youâre night-ing outâŚitâs not just driving is it? Not hard stuff but still time consuming, and time youâre not at home.
Agreed, the job is a known quantity. But if all industries took the same view on improving the lot of workers, weâd all still be working 6.5 days a week and sending kids into the factoriesâŚ
I reckon some of you would be happiest with Victorian working hours and conditions by the sound of it!!
limeyphil:
Driving lorries has always been associated with long hours. Why start doing a job like this then complain about the hours?
Itâs like jumping in the sea then complaining about being wet.
Itâs not even working for 15 hours. driving is the working part, and you can only do that for 10 hours at the most.
thereâs far too many soft arsed, canât do, wonât do fools that call themselves lorry drivers nowadays.
Thatâs a bit of a sweeping statement. When you drive a car transporter, driving is the break! 
If the working day was reduced to 12 hours, Then drivers would have less time at home. Theyâd be having more nights in the lorry due to the shorter working day, They would also be weekended more often.
Then thereâs the idiots that park up the road from a delivery thatâs booked in for 10am but they set off at 6am, drive for 10 minutes, then toss the job off all morning. Companies would be going under much quicker than they do now.
grumpybum:
Thatâs a bit of a sweeping statement. When you drive a car transporter, driving is the break!
WHS! For me, the driving time between drops gives me a chance to have a rest