So are you saying CF that if you are on a motorway it should be OK to full the fuse on the limiter and ignore the tacho and just keep going ■■ 
raymundo:
So are you saying CF that if you are on a motorway it should be OK to full the fuse on the limiter and ignore the tacho and just keep going ■■
No.I’m saying that minimum 12 hours daily rest with no seperate driving time limit and running at 60 mph might help to stop needlessly criminalising people regards hours.With the win win that drivers would also arguably get more sleep between shifts. 
Carryfast:
raymundo:
So are you saying CF that if you are on a motorway it should be OK to full the fuse on the limiter and ignore the tacho and just keep going ■■No.I’m saying that minimum 12 hours daily rest with no seperate driving time limit and running at 60 mph might help to stop needlessly criminalising people regards hours.With the win win that drivers would also arguably get more sleep between shifts.
Wowsers! That’s priceless. And complete and utter rubbish too. Whatever the rules are, planners will want to get the most out of their asset, and they wont suit some drivers, who have something to do that day…
Winseer:
toby1234abc:
Drivers running late, were told to drive with no digi cards.Late…
FFS This is what comes of PLANNING shifts for 15 bloody hours.
The 15 hours facility should be used only to give slippage to those drivers doing a max TWELVE hour shift, and running into delays…
Lobby your MP - because fining Storbart’s finest isn’t going to stop the next 16 hour guy delayed by only an hour - from crashing and being a danger to themselves and others.
The entire 15 hour planning bull needs to be removed from the CULTURE of professional driving.
Instead, we have a system where some fool yards think they need to get 3x15 hour shifts out of you “to get their money’s worth” every damned week. It’s not even as if Stobarts are the best payers.
Absoloutley agree winseer. After eleven or twelve hours on the card, followed by possibly another hour’s drive home in the car- by the time you’ve got showered, said hello to the wife and had your evening meal, its time for bed, because you need to be going down the road again by four in the morning.
There is simply no time left to do anything else with your day. Can’t stay awake much past eight o clock in an evening.
All the driver CPC did was that it illustrated how much the bosses and “planners” can push us, within the constraints of the law.
Reading a few threads on here give the impression that stobbies planners are putting drivers under to much pressure.
But in the end it’s down to the driver to say no, can’t be done, I’m tired, or my personal favourite " I know where you live’.
Course we have all gone the extra mile to get the job done (no medals awarded though), but there comes a time in every drivers life when they can no longer take it up the arse, even if the sweetener of a reach round is offered.
Trampers no doubt have less pressure on them as there’s no panic to get home, there’s always tomorrow etc.
If in doubt look at your digi card it’s your name on it and your job to stay legal. Easier said than done especially when green and wanting to impress or wanting to get home.
Back in the day when tacos where Frisbee’s I’m sure I’m not alone in having done some spectacular shifts, but different times, now arse covering is essential. It’s our job to know the regs and comply.
.
Butcher:
Winseer:
toby1234abc:
Drivers running late, were told to drive with no digi cards.Late…
FFS This is what comes of PLANNING shifts for 15 bloody hours.
The 15 hours facility should be used only to give slippage to those drivers doing a max TWELVE hour shift, and running into delays…
Lobby your MP - because fining Storbart’s finest isn’t going to stop the next 16 hour guy delayed by only an hour - from crashing and being a danger to themselves and others.
The entire 15 hour planning bull needs to be removed from the CULTURE of professional driving.
Instead, we have a system where some fool yards think they need to get 3x15 hour shifts out of you “to get their money’s worth” every damned week. It’s not even as if Stobarts are the best payers.Absoloutley agree winseer. After eleven or twelve hours on the card, followed by possibly another hour’s drive home in the car- by the time you’ve got showered, said hello to the wife and had your evening meal, its time for bed, because you need to be going down the road again by four in the morning.
There is simply no time left to do anything else with your day. Can’t stay awake much past eight o clock in an evening.
All the driver CPC did was that it illustrated how much the bosses and “planners” can push us, within the constraints of the law.
I’ve been at our place 9 year tramping and in that time had about 4 nights at home, always had 11 off and ive told them if I end up going home don’t expect me having a reduced rest as by the time I’ve drove home, had a ■■■■, shave and shower, had mi tea and spent some time with my daughter I’ll be lucky to get 6 hours kip and it ain’t happening.
Trouble is you have some idiots at our place who live only 10mins from the yard but will have reduced rests in the yard If they asked me to do this then I’d ask if I was getting paid a night out seeing as though I’m not at home and if the answer was no then I’d inform them my home address is Ward Green Barnsley not Baurgh Green and I’ll be off for 11 off. Once some drivers do what they do they expect others to follow suit like we are lemmings
Dipper_Dave:
Reading a few threads on here give the impression that stobbies planners are putting drivers under too much pressure.
not really, 
when said drivers " with backbone and 20/ 30 years experience " hand back the paperwork laughing saying " too far, trampers job! " planning manager wanders over " BULLYING " and says " are you refusing an reasonable request! " LOL then it ends up with threats of disciplinary action because the planner on the computer " who is 22, spotty faced and walks to work! " gives it large it’s only 4 hours 20 to Thurrock from Appleplop
Vicious circle I’m afraid, like a fanny with teeth! Then the issue of said day/ night drivers pulling their digis comes about 5/ 6 shift as there at Hilton park with an hour to drive, to Appleplop so guess what they do? So looking out of the square window, the planner sees no traffic on his 4 hours 20 min journey on Google, Atari or space invaders from ear to ear " because there’s nothing in between " and hey presto! 
they shouldn’t in this day and age be planning more than 12 hours work at least an hours back up plan if it goes slow, three hours for an emergency really but the driver " MAY REDUCE! " is the key phrase
Fridays I’d just park up at two in the afternoon, sack it off have nine off and stroll back in the wee hours after all the oxygen thieves had clogged up the motorways for seven hours on an Friday afternoon because the couldn’t check their mirrors before, during and after completing a single overtaking manoeuvre to progress down some Tarmac, just remembering what time I inserted my digi card on Monday morning so I didn’t go over my 120 hours on five nights out, bingo! It’s not hard driving a Lorry in 2016 you know!
F-reds:
Carryfast:
raymundo:
So are you saying CF that if you are on a motorway it should be OK to full the fuse on the limiter and ignore the tacho and just keep going ■■No.I’m saying that minimum 12 hours daily rest with no seperate driving time limit and running at 60 mph might help to stop needlessly criminalising people regards hours.With the win win that drivers would also arguably get more sleep between shifts.
Wowsers! That’s priceless. And complete and utter rubbish too. Whatever the rules are, planners will want to get the most out of their asset, and they wont suit some drivers, who have something to do that day…
Great.So you think it’s better to ‘maximise’ a regime which stops drivers at 9 hours driving time but lets them start a new shift after possibly less than 6 hours sleep. Rather than the idea of ‘maximising’ more driving time with more sleep.The driving time issue probably more likely to be the problem in this case of creating an offence where no offence is needed.
Carryfast:
Great.So you think it’s better to ‘maximise’ a regime which stops drivers at 9 hours driving time but lets them start a new shift after possibly less than 6 hours sleep.
Not what I said at all, old chum, I wish you could read my post as well you could read Wikipedia.
I was merely pointing out that whether the daily limits imposed on drivers by the rules are 900km/10hour drive/15hour shift/9hour rest, or if if was your 1200km/12hour drive/12hour shift/12hour rest, it makes absolutely no odds to a company like Stobart. They will plan the maximum for a given asset, for the truck and or the driver. Addtionally whatever a driver was doing at work they would still have commitments outside of work that they would attempt to bend the rules for. Your notion that because you have extended certain limits and lessened others would somehow make certain cretins not criminal in the eyes of the law is frankly ludicrous. The limits will always be pushed, whatever they are, that’s the nature of Stobarts work. Changing the goal posts won’t help.
You’d know that, if you drove anything other than a Search Engine these days…
I should point out, I do not work to maximum hours as they are now, nor do I think people should be really, but that is the way it is, so it’s our job to know the rules we use day in day out, so we don’t get caught out.
Cue a CF essay I reckon 
F-reds:
Carryfast:
Great.So you think it’s better to ‘maximise’ a regime which stops drivers at 9 hours driving time but lets them start a new shift after possibly less than 6 hours sleep.Not what I said at all, old chum, I wish you could read my post as well you could read Wikipedia.
I was merely pointing out that whether the daily limits imposed on drivers by the rules are 900km/10hour drive/15hour shift/9hour rest, or if if was your 1200km/12hour drive/12hour shift/12hour rest, it makes absolutely no odds to a company like Stobart. They will plan the maximum for a given asset, for the truck and or the driver. Addtionally whatever a driver was doing at work they would still have commitments outside of work that they would attempt to bend the rules for. Your notion that because you have extended certain limits and lessened others would somehow make certain cretins not criminal in the eyes of the law is frankly ludicrous. The limits will always be pushed, whatever they are, that’s the nature of Stobarts work. Changing the goal posts won’t help.
You’d know that, if you drove anything other than a Search Engine these days…
I should point out, I do not work to maximum hours as they are now, nor do I think people should be really, but that is the way it is, so it’s our job to know the rules we use day in day out, so we don’t get caught out.
[/quote]
Exactly how do you reach the conclusion,that the infringements in question don’t involve interfering with a tacho record in order to just get round the ridiculous 9 hour driving time limit.Or that the infringements in question had anything to do with ‘maximising’ planned hours potential in that regard.Or that getting rid of said ridiculous 9 hour driving time limits wouldn’t de criminalise what is currently a needless artificially created offence and thereby reduce pressures on drivers to falsify/interfere with records in that regard.
Bearing in mind that the exact details of the infringements in question and the motivation regards same in this case aren’t actually there.
As for the idea of getting rid of the 9 hours driving and reduced daily rest in favour of no driving time limit,but minimum 12 hours daily rest,how can that possibly be any worse,as opposed to much better,than what we’ve got now even ‘if’ operators are supposedly ‘maximising’ hours potential.When at worse,as I said,it would just reduce the pressures on drivers to interfere with hours records in the most likely situation of running out of driving time.While imposing the advantageous situation of drivers getting more sleep between shifts in addition to a much simpler hours regs calculation regime.
As usual you are just repeating yourself, and attempting to bluster your point across.
I didn’t decide it was them not going over 9 hours, it seems to be you who has decided they were running out of drive time. What about shift time? Just as likely as long we are slinging assumptions around willy nilly.
I fail to see how you are relieving pressure on drivers by handing him or her a different limit. Its still a limit. You as a driver would feel just stressed at 11:45 as you would at 8:45.
You also seem to have decided they felt pressured into breaking the rules, actually i would postulate that it was a combination of ignorance and chronic lack of backbone on behalf the drivers.
I’ll couch it in absolute terms for you. You can plan me for a run to The Moon. But I’m pulling over for a rest at 9hours drive, or 15hours shift, and I will not undertake any work off card at all. No problem. These drivers allowed themselves to be taken advantage off, and Stobart let them off because it either it suited them, or they did not care.
F-reds:
I’ll couch it in absolute terms for you. You can plan me for a run to The Moon. But I’m pulling over for a rest at 9hours drive, or 15hours shift, and I will not undertake any work off card at all. No problem. These drivers allowed themselves to be taken advantage off, and Stobart let them off because it either it suited them, or they did not care.
EU hours regs don’t apply to NASA.But as you’ll be single manned it’s best to make sure that you don’t compromise on your daily rest periods to make sure that you’re awake to carry out the Lunar Orbit Insertion burn. 
The important thing to me, without going over it all is this…
Curtailing the licence, the TC said that he did not accept the argument that there was insufficient advice available to operators.
Now i think this may be a first for an operator to have knowingly had drivers working off their card only get a short temporary curtailment of vehicles on their O licence and such a small percentage too. All the ones i’ve ever read have usually resulted in a lack of repute scenario and a prosecution. Infact when it happened where i worked about 6 years ago, they reduced the fleet by half. 50 vehicles down to 25, which meant redundancies.
In the scheme of things the company here has had no punishment really. Its pretty much business as usual.
Winseer:
FFS This is what comes of PLANNING shifts for 15 bloody hours.The entire 15 hour planning bull needs to be removed from the CULTURE of professional driving.
Instead, we have a system where some fool yards think they need to get 3x15 hour shifts out of you “to get their money’s worth” every damned week. It’s not even as if Stobarts are the best payers.
Not only that but some drivers are so thick, or maybe brainwashed by their boss, they actually think they (15hr shifts) are compulsory.
You often hear (well I do anyway) … ‘‘Had my 2 11s off so that’s them out of the way’’ …like a 15 is the norm and a 13 is a ballache.to them
robroy:
Winseer:
FFS This is what comes of PLANNING shifts for 15 bloody hours.The entire 15 hour planning bull needs to be removed from the CULTURE of professional driving.
Instead, we have a system where some fool yards think they need to get 3x15 hour shifts out of you “to get their money’s worth” every damned week. It’s not even as if Stobarts are the best payers.Not only that but some drivers are so thick, or maybe brainwashed by their boss, they actually think they (15hr shifts) are compulsory.
You often hear (well I do anyway) … ‘‘Had my 2 11s off so that’s them out of the way’’ …like a 15 is the norm and a 13 is a ballache.to them
You’ve been in the game a while, i’m sure you’ll answer this easy for me.
If the law allows…
2x15
3x13
=69 hours per week. (we’ll forget weekends for now)
What sort of employer in the hire and reward sector would factor on say 55 hours work in the same time frame and expect to compete given the same fixed costs ?
Mike-C:
robroy:
Winseer:
FFS This is what comes of PLANNING shifts for 15 bloody hours.The entire 15 hour planning bull needs to be removed from the CULTURE of professional driving.
Instead, we have a system where some fool yards think they need to get 3x15 hour shifts out of you “to get their money’s worth” every damned week. It’s not even as if Stobarts are the best payers.Not only that but some drivers are so thick, or maybe brainwashed by their boss, they actually think they (15hr shifts) are compulsory.
You often hear (well I do anyway) … ‘‘Had my 2 11s off so that’s them out of the way’’ …like a 15 is the norm and a 13 is a ballache.to themYou’ve been in the game a while, i’m sure you’ll answer this easy for me.
If the law allows…
2x15
3x13
=69 hours per week. (we’ll forget weekends for now)What sort of employer in the hire and reward sector would factor on say 55 hours work in the same time frame and expect to compete given the same fixed costs ?
See your point (I think 
) but is the ‘incentive’ of time + £1 after 50 hrs, or some similar ■■■■ poor wage structure that most are on today, enough to encourage a driver to do it. So what do they expect.
In the days of time + a half after 40 maybe so.
robroy:
Mike-C:
robroy:
Winseer:
FFS This is what comes of PLANNING shifts for 15 bloody hours.The entire 15 hour planning bull needs to be removed from the CULTURE of professional driving.
Instead, we have a system where some fool yards think they need to get 3x15 hour shifts out of you “to get their money’s worth” every damned week. It’s not even as if Stobarts are the best payers.Not only that but some drivers are so thick, or maybe brainwashed by their boss, they actually think they (15hr shifts) are compulsory.
You often hear (well I do anyway) … ‘‘Had my 2 11s off so that’s them out of the way’’ …like a 15 is the norm and a 13 is a ballache.to themYou’ve been in the game a while, i’m sure you’ll answer this easy for me.
If the law allows…
2x15
3x13
=69 hours per week. (we’ll forget weekends for now)What sort of employer in the hire and reward sector would factor on say 55 hours work in the same time frame and expect to compete given the same fixed costs ?
See your point (I think
In the days of time + a half after 40 maybe so.
I’m not sure mate. But sure the decent hours can be done in regular delivery work, Brakes, Bookers, 3663 etc…ok i know they can all push ya but you know what i mean they can just factor in a days work. In the chase the next job game its always never ending, you’ll never catch up, you’ll always be late or chasing it, always have to do more hours than you “thought” . And yes sadly for various reasons the extra £1 per hour is worth it to many. While i’ve always been delighted to go home early at 3pm, after starting at 6am, the amount of guys that complain…thats no good to me i need more hours than that,tells me and probably you that we’re in a minority, Employers want the max out the truck, younger guys eager to earn more wonga want to do the same. Its only us old fuddy duddys that want to slow it all down !!!
robroy:
Mike-C:
If the law allows…
2x15
3x13
=69 hours per week. (we’ll forget weekends for now)What sort of employer in the hire and reward sector would factor on say 55 hours work in the same time frame and expect to compete given the same fixed costs ?
See your point (I think
In the days of time + a half after 40 maybe so.
Bearing in mind a 9 hour driving time limit it can only be an operation based on a definition of productivety other than tonne/miles carried and which time spent by both truck and driver taking nothing no where pays.Let alone an hours regime based on the idea that minimising drivers’ sleep periods between shifts as part of that is supposedly good.
On that note I think direct link trunking operations would probably fit the description of minimising overall shift times while maximising miles run per shift = more competitive. 
Looking back through my work day history on my driver hours, I’m doing between 8-10 hours in a day. Some are more, some are less. Day runs are normally longer for me as two day’ers let me finish at say 3pm rather than 5-6pm. Today was a 12 hour day though, started at 5am, by the time I’m sorted its 17:04 when the card comes out.