Hello,i have 2 questions regarding 10 hour driving days that i would be grateful if anyone could answer.
Q1)If i drive 10 hours in a shift which starts about 21.00 on a sunday and finishes about 09.00 on a monday morning which week does that 10 hour driving shift belong to?The law allows you to drive 10hours twice in a fixed week and as a fixed week runs from 00.00 on a monday to 23.59 on a sunday i was wondering which week that 10 hour shift belonged to?
Q2)If i start my working week on a saturday after a 45 hour rest period(in a week which i have not done any 10 hour driving days so far)would it be legal for me to drive for 10 hours on the saturday,sunday,monday and tuesday?Some drivers say i would be breaking the law by driving for 10hours four days in a row but i say its legal as i am driving between 2 separate weeks-would i be legal or not??
CALUM:
Hello,i have 2 questions regarding 10 hour driving days that i would be grateful if anyone could answer.
Q1)If i drive 10 hours in a shift which starts about 21.00 on a sunday and finishes about 09.00 on a monday morning which week does that 10 hour driving shift belong to?The law allows you to drive 10hours twice in a fixed week and as a fixed week runs from 00.00 on a monday to 23.59 on a sunday i was wondering which week that 10 hour shift belonged to?
This may help
Have to say though that other people may disagree with what I’ve written in that thread, but I’ll stick with it until shown to be wrong (could be some-time soon)
CALUM:
Q2)If i start my working week on a saturday after a 45 hour rest period(in a week which i have not done any 10 hour driving days so far)would it be legal for me to drive for 10 hours on the saturday,sunday,monday and tuesday?Some drivers say i would be breaking the law by driving for 10hours four days in a row but i say its legal as i am driving between 2 separate weeks-would i be legal or not??
I believe you would be legal to drive for ten hours on Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, It’s clearly twice in each week and therefore legal.
tachograph:
but I’ll stick with it until shown to be wrong (could be some-time soon)
not getting involve in that one mate
Del I’m disappointed and shocked
We should be able to reach at least 4 pages on a topic like this one
Seriously though it would be interesting to hear other peoples opinions on this one
all i would like to say is that a day is 24 hours and if you drive in that 24 hours that the day it would count and as a new 24 hour period does not start till you had a rest if you started work on sun and you worked in to Mon it would still be a sun if you get my meaning
cos if you did count it in to the other week on that day you would only be able to drive 9 hours cos the other hour would be there, well that’s my take on it
I can only see it as my 10 hours drive would be the first one of my second week (B).
As for my last week. Sunday 21.00 till 00.00 is 3 hours.
Let’s say last weeks (A) total driving was 41 hours. I think I need to add the 3 hours to that, so I can now only drive 46 hours from midnight Sunday in my week (B) using one more 10 hour drive. By the beginning of my week (C) I will have only 44 hours available.
My simple explanation may be crap, and I am willing to be publicly horsewhipped for it.
CALUM:
Hello,i have 2 questions regarding 10 hour driving days that i would be grateful if anyone could answer.
Q1)If i drive 10 hours in a shift which starts about 21.00 on a sunday and finishes about 09.00 on a monday morning which week does that 10 hour driving shift belong to?
The second week, you won’t exceed the 9 hour limit until you are into week 2.
CALUM:
Q2)If i start my working week on a saturday after a 45 hour rest period(in a week which i have not done any 10 hour driving days so far)would it be legal for me to drive for 10 hours on the saturday,sunday,monday and tuesday?Some drivers say i would be breaking the law by driving for 10hours four days in a row but i say its legal as i am driving between 2 separate weeks-would i be legal or not??
ROG:
I would like to know how VOSA would view the following three senarios as that would be the rules for us to follow in the UK -
All 10 hours of driving done in the same working period
A) 5 hours driving prior to Sunday midnight and 5 hours afterwards
B) 1 hour driving prior to Sunday midnight and 9 hours afterwards
C) 9 hours driving prior to Sunday midnight and 1 hour afterwards
Coffeeholic:
The second week, you won’t exceed the 9 hour limit until you are into week 2.
Is that the way that VOSA will regard ALL the above
That’s an interesting question ROG, but if you check the definition of “week” in the Regs, the question kind of answers itself…
Just for completeness, I’d add that it’s provided that all other definitions and limits are complied with. (Just before you thought of asking… )
I’m happy to wait for an answer from geebee45, but even VOSA have to use the definitions and limits as written in the Regs, because…
Article 4
(i) ‘a week’ means the period of time between 00.00 on Monday and 24.00 on Sunday;
(k) ‘daily driving time’ means the total accumulated driving time between the end of one daily rest period and the beginning of the following daily rest period or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period;
(l) ‘weekly driving time’ means the total accumulated driving time during a week;
Article 6
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.
The weekly driving time shall not exceed 56 hours and shall not result in the maximum weekly working time laid down in Directive 2002/15/EC being exceeded.
The total accumulated driving time during any two consecutive weeks shall not exceed 90 hours.
Looking at the above regs -
Article 6 1 refers to a fixed week
Article 4 (i) tells us what a week is
As long as the driving time is compliant for Articles 4 (k), 4 (l), 6 2. & 6 3. then it is possible to say that the 10 hour daily driving that is mentioned at the top of this post counts in neither fixed week.
Coffeeholic:
The second week, you won’t exceed the 9 hour limit until you are into week 2.
I still think this is a very interesting point…
I follow your logic Coffeeholic, which means that I agree AND I’m not arguing.
Just to develop your point a little, it would seem implied that when a 10hr driving period completely spans the boundaries of a fixed week (by more than 1hr on both sides of 00:00,) it doesn’t look like it can be counted as a complete ‘10’ that falls into either week for the purposes of the number of ‘10s’ allowed per week.
My reasoning is that the relevant daily driving limit for the driving day contained in week #1 doesn’t contain a ‘10’ either, which IMHO is the reverse, but not the opposite, of your point.
(As long as ALL relevant daily, weekly and fortnightly driving limits are complied with.)
Coffeeholic:
The second week, you won’t exceed the 9 hour limit until you are into week 2.
I still think this is a very interesting point…
I follow your logic Coffeeholic, which means that I agree AND I’m not arguing.
Just to develop your point a little, it would seem implied that when a 10hr driving period completely spans the boundaries of a fixed week (by more than 1hr on both sides of 00:00,) it doesn’t look like it can be counted as a complete ‘10’ that falls into either week for the purposes of the number of ‘10s’ allowed per week.
It’s not about a complete ‘10’, that’s not strictly what the regulations allow. The regulations allow the driver to extend the 9 hour driving day twice per fixed week. In the case of the shift starting on Sunday night the OP asked about he will extend the 9 hours driving in week 2, in his case probably sometime between 07:30 and 08:00 on Monday morning. Simples.
ROG:
As long as the driving time is compliant for Articles 4 (k), 4 (l), 6 2. & 6 3. then it is possible to say that the 10 hour daily driving that is mentioned at the top of this post counts in neither fixed week.
No it’s not. Stop thinking in terms of ‘10’s’, it’s not about ‘10’s’. The regulations allow you to extend the 9 hour driving day twice in a fixed week so It is the extension that counts, not the amount of hours or the daily driving limit, the 10 is simply the maximum you can extend a 9 hour driving day to.
The section of the regulations you quoted confirms this.
Article 6
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.
And in the OP’s case the extension will take place toward the end of his shift on Monday morning, probably between 07:30 and 08:00 if he is doing a full 10 or close to it, which Article 4 tells us is several hours into a new fixed week.
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.
Coffeeholic:
The regulations allow the driver to extend the 9 hour driving day twice per fixed week.
Is the keyword here - DURING
I’m thinking back to the difference between IN and WITHIN …
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.
Coffeeholic:
The regulations allow the driver to extend the 9 hour driving day twice per fixed week.
Is the keyword here - DURING
I’m thinking back to the difference between IN and WITHIN …
No the key word(s) is extend(ed) and you can make use of the facility to extend twice between 00:00 Monday and 24:00 Sunday. Doesn’t matter if you say during, in, within, per or any other word to describe something which is allowed twice between 00:00 Monday and 24:00 Sunday. In the case of the OP he extends his daily driving time around 7.5 8 hours after 00:00 Monday when a new week began.
I’m saying 7.5 - 8 hours because by the time he extends beyond 9 hours driving he will have had a minimum 90 minutes of break and 9 hours driving. He started at 21:00 so adding 10.5 hours onto that gives 07:30 and there is probably a bit of time at the start of the shift for daily checks, say 10 - 15 minutes. So best guess is actually 07:45, which the extra hours drive takes to 08:45 and leaves 15 minutes before he clocks off at 09:00.
Coffeeholic:
The second week, you won’t exceed the 9 hour limit until you are into week 2.
I still think this is a very interesting point…
I follow your logic Coffeeholic, which means that I agree AND I’m not arguing.
Just to develop your point a little, it would seem implied that when a 10hr driving period completely spans the boundaries of a fixed week (by more than 1hr on both sides of 00:00,) it doesn’t look like it can be counted as a complete ‘10’ that falls into either week for the purposes of the number of ‘10s’ allowed per week.
It’s not about a complete ‘10’, that’s not strictly what the regulations allow. The regulations allow the driver to extend the 9 hour driving day twice per fixed week. In the case of the shift starting on Sunday night the OP asked about he will extend the 9 hours driving in week 2, in his case probably sometime between 07:30 and 08:00 on Monday morning. Simples.
Ahh, so in the OP’s case, does this mean that the extension being discussed would be treated as the first of two allowable extensions in the second fixed-week?
My reasoning is that the relevant daily driving limit for the driving day contained in week