Afternoon guys,
I’m living over in NI and I’ve began to notice a few major companies pay with a daily rate ‘after tax’ method. Not sure if this is something that is sometimes done in England.
Unsure if this is some sort of ‘smoke and mirrors’ that benefits the company in some way or is actually beneficial to the driver.
My guess is that the more days worked, the more tax etc, but this wouldn’t be the case.
Wondering on peoples thoughts and maybe some explanation on advantages.
Thanks guys
I would expect they’re doing it to try to disguise what the pizz poor hourly rate is by giving you what the take home pay is after certain tax allowances have been applied like meal allowances etc. They’re praying on the ignorance of people when it comes to income tax. Yes you’ll pay more if you do more days but no different than if you got paid more for the days you’re currently doing…when you’ve used up your personal allowance you’re paying 20% income tax on everything then up to £50,700 regardless of how many hours or days you’re working.
Generally companies that need to do this tend to be crap payers. Stobarts were the one in GB that immediately come to mind. When advertising what the hourly rate was they’d not put the hourly rate but the equivalent when applying tax free meal allowances etc so they could claim they paid £10 odd an hour when it was actually £9.50 plus £15 a day tax free meal allowance.
If a company refuses to state what their hourly rate is clearly without any shenanigins like “after tax” or “equivalent hourly rate” then I personally wouldn’t want to work for them because you’re already starting from a position where the employer is being sly, underhanded and feeding you crap before you’ve even started to work for them.
Depending on the exact deal…
A day rate means you get the same whether you work 15 hrs or 15 minutes. If its a reasonable rate for 15 hrs, it should be OK. Some jobs may have a mix of long days and short days. On a day rate you know where you are come the months end.
No one should be analysing your time sheets looking to snip time, and money, off herenthere.
When youre working, for no extra, after your mates have gone to the pub, you may get a bitter taste. That may change when the tables turned. Glass half full/half empty?
If the “day rate, after tax” includes allowances for meals etc, then you won`t be getting those when on holidays. (Covered by Conor above)
It can work OK if you go in with your eyes open.
Daily rate, job rate, per mile rate or per hour rate it makes no difference.Its all about the work load and duties expected ‘in a day’.
IE £15 per hour class 2 based on an 8 hour day local multi drop all handball.
Or £10 per hour based on a 12 hour day distance trailer swaps only trunking regardless of how it’s calculated hourly or job rate.
Which would you prefer.
Day rate set payment for days work be in 1 hour or 15 hours.
It has its advantages if you have an easy run get back early.
Disadvantages are you get stuck behind an accident on M6 for hours get back later than normal don’t get any extra for it.
Hourly paid your obviously being paid for sitting in traffic jam.
Years ago I was on day rate which on hours worked was great at first. but over time they expected more n.more from you and some days when worked it out was earning just above minimum wage.
I eventually left went to jobs hourly paid. Least if was sat on M6 or having longer days was earning money for it.
Sooner or later - working folk in all lines of toil will realize that earning £12ph and losing a third of it to tax and insurance puts you on <£9ph takehome, which is below minimum wages really, ain’t it? 
(Anyone on base rate tax, for example working pensioners…)
On the other hand, actually BEING on minimum wages these days - not only sees one paying little or no NICs and Income tax, but also qualifies for certain benefit top-ups, especially if you have tribes of kids, brudder coloured skin, any random non-christian faith, or are diverse enough to be considerered “honorary non-white”… 
Carryfast:
Daily rate, job rate, per mile rate or per hour rate it makes no difference.Its all about the work load and duties expected ‘in a day’.
IE £15 per hour class 2 based on an 8 hour day local multi drop all handball.
Or £10 per hour based on a 12 hour day distance trailer swaps only trunking regardless of how it’s calculated hourly or job rate.
Which would you prefer.
£15 X 8.
Get more time to yourself, saves on a gym membership and driving is tiring, so you could be as worn out from either.
stu675:
Carryfast:
Daily rate, job rate, per mile rate or per hour rate it makes no difference.Its all about the work load and duties expected ‘in a day’.
IE £15 per hour class 2 based on an 8 hour day local multi drop all handball.
Or £10 per hour based on a 12 hour day distance trailer swaps only trunking regardless of how it’s calculated hourly or job rate.
Which would you prefer.£15 X 8.
Get more time to yourself, saves on a gym membership and driving is tiring, so you could be as worn out from either.
If anyone finds 9 hours driving tiring then the job of ‘driver’ probably isn’t the best option.
While if they want the best hourly rate for heavy labouring work then the construction industry is the place for it not driving.
It’s not the hourly rate but how much and/or what type of work is expected in an hour that matters is a good mantra to go by.
I consider myself extremely well paid at around £9 per hour for the job and the duties expected of me.
Another way at looking at it is that a day rate is called a salary, that’s a set rate in other professions
Any hours you go over is given as time in lieu, ie holidays,
All well and good when you’re working in a job that the contract says 40 hours a week but that’s Never going to be in a drivers contract who is on a daily rate
It’s an outdated way of paying a wage just like the way trip money is now
If you work for a haulier that pays only a days rate you don’t have any come back, ie doing all the hours that suits him not you, and it usually ends up your working for below minimum wage
If it was me I would work out max hours a week and then compare it to what he’s paying and that should give you an idea of how much he can run your into the ground for peanuts
Carryfast:
stu675:
Carryfast:
Daily rate, job rate, per mile rate or per hour rate it makes no difference.Its all about the work load and duties expected ‘in a day’.
IE £15 per hour class 2 based on an 8 hour day local multi drop all handball.
Or £10 per hour based on a 12 hour day distance trailer swaps only trunking regardless of how it’s calculated hourly or job rate.
Which would you prefer.£15 X 8.
Get more time to yourself, saves on a gym membership and driving is tiring, so you could be as worn out from either.If anyone finds 9 hours driving tiring then the job of ‘driver’ probably isn’t the best option.
While if they want the best hourly rate for heavy labouring work then the construction industry is the place for it not driving.
It’s not the hourly rate but how much and/or what type of work is expected in an hour that matters is a good mantra to go by.
I consider myself extremely well paid at around £9 per hour for the job and the duties expected of me.
Of course it’s tiring, why else are there rest rules? It’s not just 9 hours, you said it was a 12 hour ‘day’.
You come across as someone failing to understand hourly rate.* Why would anyone be choosing between class 2 multidrop and class 1 trunking? You go for the best paying sector that you are capable of and then find the best example from jobs available.
I’m down in South Wales on just over £14 an hour for class 2. Good wage for this area. There’s a lot of drivers with us that have their Class 1 just the money isn’t there especially when we are home every night.
stu675:
Of course it’s tiring, why else are there rest rules? It’s not just 9 hours, you said it was a 12 hour ‘day’.
You come across as someone failing to understand hourly rate.* Why would anyone be choosing between class 2 multidrop and class 1 trunking? You go for the best paying sector that you are capable of and then find the best example from jobs available.
- Probably why someone gets away with paying you below the minimum wage.
The ‘rules’ you are referring to rightly say that you can drive for 9 hours in a day.
People don’t generally get a class 1 licence to do local work also involving lots of load handling.But by your logic they’d choose class 2 local multi drop if the hourly rate was more.
Since when was minimum wage more than ‘‘around £9 per hour’’.
So now I get paid minimum wage to drive high end cars around the country and for sitting on trains.As opposed to driving an artic a couple of hours each way up the road to a hub and the rest the shift working as a warehouse labourer for not much more in real terms.Again hourly rates mean nothing it’s what’s expected of you in terms of duties and workload to earn it that matters.
Winseer:
Sooner or later - working folk in all lines of toil will realize that earning £12ph and losing a third of it to tax and insurance puts you on <£9ph takehome, which is below minimum wages really, ain’t it?
(Anyone on base rate tax, for example working pensioners…)
First of all you don’t pay a third. Secondly no it doesn’t put you below minimim wage because the minimum wage figure is specified as the gross hourly rate, not net.
On the other hand, actually BEING on minimum wages these days - not only sees one paying little or no NICs and Income tax, but also qualifies for certain benefit top-ups, especially if you have tribes of kids, brudder coloured skin, any random non-christian faith, or are diverse enough to be considerered “honorary non-white”…
Oh look, Winseer is being back to being the usual prejudiced racist bigot again. You are aware we’re no longer living in the 1970s?
Winseer:
Sooner or later - working folk in all lines of toil will realize that earning £12ph and losing a third of it to tax and insurance puts you on <£9ph takehome, which is below minimum wages really, ain’t it?
(Anyone on base rate tax, for example working pensioners…)On the other hand, actually BEING on minimum wages these days - not only sees one paying little or no NICs and Income tax, but also qualifies for certain benefit top-ups, especially if you have tribes of kids, brudder coloured skin, any random non-christian faith, or are diverse enough to be considerered “honorary non-white”…
Stone cold crazy, you are.
Rather than give you a top line figure that you then have to deduct your tax , National Insurance and pension to find out what your actually left with - Your employer is telling you if you do a days work for me this is what you will take home with you.
In any wage negotations I’ve ever had I always make it clear that I’m talking in a "after tax " senario ie "i want £180 a day after tax and national insurance . From that £180 the only thing left to deduct is my pension . It keeps them from giving you what looks like a good rate but then you lose out when your tax and \national Insurance is deducted . Its up to them to sort out your tax and N.I (and possibly pension )
How can your employer know all your personal tax affairs that affect how much tax you are liable for?
beefy4605:
In any wage negotations I’ve ever had I always make it clear that I’m talking in a "after tax " senario ie "i want £180 a day after tax and national insurance . From that £180 the only thing left to deduct is my pension . It keeps them from giving you what looks like a good rate but then you lose out when your tax and \national Insurance is deducted . Its up to them to sort out your tax and N.I (and possibly pension )
Hope you’re not married and with a married persons tax code because if you are they’d be paying you £1000 less gross per year than someone on the standard 1270L code. And if someone had gone to university and had a student loan to pay then if they’re getting the same net day rate as you they’re getting paid at least 9% more gross pay. And if you hadn’t worked at all since the beginning of the tax year and joined the company in November time other employees would be on 20% more gross pay than you. And when it came to getting a mortgage or a loan they’d stand a better chance than you because the gross figure on their P60 would be more than yours.
Oh and here’s more food for thought. If you’re getting paid a day rate like you want when a tax cut comes into effect like was announced on Friday you won’t benefit a penny, only your employer will. So whereas someone on £30k gross getting paid the normal way would be £400 a year better off in your case only your employer will because they’ll give you the same net £180 pay you wanted and pocket the tax/NI reduction.
Is under the table, cash in hand, black economy a thing over there?
It could be a daily earn that only you and the employer know about. 
stu675:
How can your employer know all your personal tax affairs that affect how much tax you are liable for?
HMRC issues a tax code every year to me and my employer - all personal deductions are included in it .
Conor:
beefy4605:
In any wage negotations I’ve ever had I always make it clear that I’m talking in a "after tax " senario ie "i want £180 a day after tax and national insurance . From that £180 the only thing left to deduct is my pension . It keeps them from giving you what looks like a good rate but then you lose out when your tax and \national Insurance is deducted . Its up to them to sort out your tax and N.I (and possibly pension )Hope you’re not married and with a married persons tax code because if you are they’d be paying you £1000 less gross per year than someone on the standard 1270L code. And if someone had gone to university and had a student loan to pay then if they’re getting the same net day rate as you they’re getting paid at least 9% more gross pay. And if you hadn’t worked at all since the beginning of the tax year and joined the company in November time other employees would be on 20% more gross pay than you. And when it came to getting a mortgage or a loan they’d stand a better chance than you because the gross figure on their P60 would be more than yours.
Oh and here’s more food for thought. If you’re getting paid a day rate like you want when a tax cut comes into effect like was announced on Friday you won’t benefit a penny, only your employer will. So whereas someone on £30k gross getting paid the normal way would be £400 a year better off in your case only your employer will because they’ll give you the same net £180 pay you wanted and pocket the tax/NI reduction.
Conor when your paid by the day the risk is with your employer - they need to try and work you for as long as they legaly can . If a trailer misses a boat , a load gets cancelled and we end up getting parked up with 6-8 hours spreadover and 4-5 hours driving left on the card then its their loss - they take the risk . Now that we are being paid by the hour the driver takes the risk as if a trailer misses a boat , a load gets cancelled we end up getting parked up and no pay -when you work away all week that can and does happen . We come out on a boat on a Monday morning work all over the UK all week tipping and loading trailers and running them back to the ferry ports . Theres a thousand reasons why a trailer won’t be there when you need it - delays loading , breakdowns etc etc but if that trailer isn’t in Cairnryan , Heysham or Liverpool if Im paid by the hour I loose , paid by the day I win . The trick is to make sure you have a day rate where you win most of the time .