LICENCE/TEST CHANGES - OFFICIAL INFO

[Pete S]

The following is an extract from the GOV>UK website. No more rumours and guesswork!!


Some rules about learning to drive an HGV and bus or coach are going to change on 15 November 2021 (subject to Parliamentary approval). The changes affect:

what you’re allowed to learn to drive and take your driving test in
how the driving test works
What you can learn to drive and take your driving test in
Lorries
You currently have to learn to drive and pass a driving test in a large rigid lorry (category C) before you can learn to drive and take a test in a large articulated lorry (category CE).

The law is going to change so that you’ll be able to:

learn to drive in an articulated lorry when you get your first provisional lorry licence from 15 November 2021 (if you already have a provisional licence, you’ll need to take extra steps to upgrade your provisional licence)
take your test in a large articulated lorry without having to pass one in a large rigid lorry first
You’ll still be able to learn to drive and take a driving test in a large rigid lorry (category C) if you do not want to drive anything larger.

When you pass your test in a large articulated lorry, you’ll then be allowed to drive:

a medium-sized lorry (C1)
a medium-sized lorry towing a trailer (C1E)
a large rigid lorry (C)
a large articulated lorry (CE)
Medium-sized lorries
This change will also apply to medium-sized lorries towing a trailer (category C1E).

This means you’ll be able to learn to drive a medium-sized lorry towing a trailer (category C1E) and take your test in one, without having to pass a test in a medium-sized lorry (category C1) first.

When you pass your test in a medium-sized lorry towing a trailer, you’ll then be allowed to drive:

a medium-sized lorry (C1)
a medium-sized lorry towing a trailer (C1E)
Buses and coaches
You currently have to learn to drive and pass a driving test in a bus or coach (category D) before you can learn to drive and take a test in a bus or coach towing a trailer (category DE).

The law is going to change so that you’ll be able to:

learn to drive in a bus or coach towing a trailer when you get your first provisional bus licence from 15 November 2021 (if you already have a provisional licence, you’ll need to take extra steps to upgrade your provisional licence)
take your test in a bus or coach towing a trailer without having to pass one in just a bus or coach first
You’ll still be able to learn to drive and take a driving test in a bus or coach (category D) if you do not want to tow trailers.

When you pass your test in a bus or coach towing a trailer, you’ll then be allowed to drive:

a minibus (D1)
a minibus towing a trailer (D1E)
a bus or coach (D)
a bus or coach towing a trailer (DE)
Minibuses
This change will also apply to minibuses towing a trailer (category D1E).

This means you’ll be able to learn to drive a minibus towing a trailer (category D1E) and take your test in one, without having to pass a test in just a minibus (category D1) first.

When you pass your test in a minibus towing a trailer, you’ll then be allowed to drive:

a minibus (D1)
a minibus towing a trailer (D1E)
What you can do until the law changes
Until the law changes on 15 November 2021, you must continue to follow the current rules about what you’re allowed to drive when you’re a learner driver.

You can be fined up to £1,000, be banned from driving and get up to 6 penalty points on your driving licence if you drive a vehicle that’s not on your driving licence.

What you need to do about your provisional licence
The changes mean that you’ll get extra provisional categories when you apply for your provisional licence for an HGV or bus.

What you need to do depends on when DVLA processes your application for a provisional licence.

If you already have a provisional vocational licence or if DVLA processes your application before 15 November
Your provisional licence will not be automatically upgraded to allow you tow if either:

you already have a provisional licence
DVLA processes your application for a provisional licence before 15 November
You will need to apply to DVLA from 15 November to get your provisional licence upgraded so you can take a trailer test without first taking a rigid test.

If DVLA processes your first provisional vocational licence from 15 November
If DVLA processes your first provisional vocational licence from 15 November you’ll automatically be allowed to tow a trailer as a provisional licence holder.

Changes to the Driver CPC part 3 (driving ability) test
The Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC) part 3 (driving ability) test is 1 of the 4 tests you have to pass to drive a lorry or bus for a living.

The test is going to be split into 2 parts from 15 November 2021:

Driver CPC part 3a (off-road exercises) test
Driver CPC part 3b (on-road driving) test
Until the rules change, you need to continue following the existing rules about learning to drive an HGV or bus.

Driver CPC part 3a (off-road exercises) test
The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) will allow training organisations to carry out the Driver CPC part 3a test.

The person who trains you will not be allowed to carry out your Driver CPC part 3a test - it will need to be another trainer.

The off-road exercises will still include:

an ‘S’ shaped reverse into a bay
showing the uncoupling and recoupling procedure if you’re taking a test with a trailer
The test will still be assessed to the same standard.

You will need to pass the Driver CPC part 3a test before you can take the Driver CPC part 3b test.

Driver CPC part 3b (on-road driving) test
DVSA will continue to provide the Driver CPC part 3b test.

The test will still include:

vehicle safety questions (known as the ‘show me, tell me’ questions)
practical on-road driving
The driving test appointment time will reduce slightly because the off-road exercises will have already been tested.

Published 17 September 2021

[ROG]

You will need to pass the Driver CPC part 3a test before you can take the Driver CPC part 3b test.

So reverse & un/couple test must be passed before attempting the on road driving test .....

Is that going to be an issue for some trainers Pete

[1van]

Hopefully you will be able to apply online to have your provisional C upgraded to CE. If that's the case it should happen very easily and quickly

[Pete S]

So reverse & un/couple test must be passed before attempting the on road driving test .....

Is that going to be an issue for some trainers Pete

I dont see that as a problem - quite the opposite. Folks will get their reverse etc out of the way and then concentrate solely on the drive.

An additional bit of detail: only one attempt at 3a is allowed each day. So no multiple quick fire attempts until it goes correctly!

Better trainers say they will be using bodycams to ensure that the test is operated "to the book".

Pete

[rearaxle]

So reverse & un/couple test must be passed before attempting the on road driving test .....

Is that going to be an issue for some trainers Pete

I dont see that as a problem - quite the opposite. Folks will get their reverse etc out of the way and then concentrate solely on the drive.

An additional bit of detail: only one attempt at 3a is allowed each day. So no multiple quick fire attempts until it goes correctly!

Better trainers say they will be using bodycams to ensure that the test is operated "to the book".

Pete

So Pete, it's open to abuse basically.

Sent from my SM-T976B using Tapatalk

[Pete S]

it's open to abuse basically.

I didn't say that!

Pete S

[Noremac]

It sounds as if the training company can trot out another one of its trainers to examine the couple / uncouple and the reverse.

I guess on the positive side, a candidate could go for this training and only proceed to learning on the road once he /she has CPC part 3a already in the bag. It is also positive for the sad occasions we hear about where a person has previously passed the reverse, but failed on the road and then proceeds to fail on the reverse on the next occasion.

[TruckerGuy]

Hopefully you will be able to apply online to have your provisional C upgraded to CE. If that's the case it should happen very easily and quickly

You're optimistic! Can I wait 15 days? I guess it depends the earliest I can get a practical driving course booked.

[Pete S]

Doubtful if any good trainer has much capacity this year.

Pete S

[Dolphin85]

Will these changes have any benefit to those who are already trained/training for Class 2 or is it just for the benefit of new trainees from the change date?
I'm not even sure if I want to do Class 1 yet but as it currently stands now that'd cost me an additional £1400 on top of the £1800 (all inclusive) I've paid for the Class 2 training. It'd be nice if the benefits filtered down but it doesn't look like it to me.

[flammen]

Pete, do you reckon the provisional form will be updated to reflect any changes?

Cos I got my D2/D4 in the post just recently but wasn't going to fill it in pending the November 15th changes.

Think I'll be able to just send it off after 15th November with the forms I have, or should I get new ones after Nov 15th before I send it off?

[jonathan_dyane]

It’s interesting that they specify articulated lorry which implies that the with the new route it will not be possible to take the test with wagon and drag

[ROG]

Pete, do you reckon the provisional form will be updated to reflect any changes?

Cos I got my D2/D4 in the post just recently but wasn't going to fill it in pending the November 15th changes.

Think I'll be able to just send it off after 15th November with the forms I have, or should I get new ones after Nov 15th before I send it off?

If you can wait until 15 Nov then do so as it will make is less hassle if you are intending to go direct to CE

[Pete S]

Will these changes have any benefit to those who are already trained/training for Class 2 or is it just for the benefit of new trainees from the change date?

No benefit to those with a CAT C licence or training towards it. But, if they then decide to move on to CE, it is possible the trainer may be able to sign off the reverse, uncouple and recouple.

It’s interesting that they specify articulated lorry which implies that the with the new route it will not be possible to take the test with wagon and drag

W+D will still fall within the rules.

Pete, do you reckon the provisional form will be updated to reflect any changes?

Sorry, not a clue. I was under the impression, from discussions with folks who are meant to know, that the C provisional would be accepted as CE provisional. But yesterday's announcement scuppers that. They will have to update the form at some point. Who knows, may even go electronic? But maybe not.

Personally, I see no reason why DVLA cant simply upgrade all provisional C licences to CE provisionals. That would save the inevitable melt down at Swansea.

The important bit is that no-one knows the optimum time to post the application. If it is processed on or after 15th November it should be CE. But prior to that it's C. Sometimes it can take 6 or 8 weeks to be processed. Other times it's returned within a week. So it's pot luck.

Hope this helps, Pete S

[Pete S]

If you can wait until 15 Nov then do so as it will make is less hassle if you are intending to go direct to CE

Absolutely.

Pete S

[flammen]

Pete, do you reckon the provisional form will be updated to reflect any changes?

Cos I got my D2/D4 in the post just recently but wasn't going to fill it in pending the November 15th changes.

Think I'll be able to just send it off after 15th November with the forms I have, or should I get new ones after Nov 15th before I send it off?

If you can wait until 15 Nov then do so as it will make is less hassle if you are intending to go direct to CE

Well that's what I plan to do, but since I haven't sent for the provisional off yet and the forms are sat here, I was just wondering if I'd need a new form after the date to qualify as a "post Nov 15th" provisional application.

Been fluting on about driving trucks for years, the idea they got rid of trailer work in the test made me think "now or never", coupled with the current crisis. Don't have an issue with reversing trailers, done it before and my old man was a driver for 20 years but it just felt like one less obstacle. Obviously it's not quite the case with the trailer work test being done 3rd party anyway so the "obstacle" is still there but it doesn't deter me eitherway.

At least now you don't have to diddle about with Class 2, though I do wonder what that means for Class 2 and Class 1 going forward, surely the wages will even out, since they'll have to attract people qualified to drive artics to drive Class2 vehicles

[Pete S]

I guess, and it's no more than a guess, that a D2 requesting a Prov C will end up with a CE prov if processed from Nov 15th. The gamble is in when to post your forms.

I will try and get more information, but it's a struggle!

Pete S

[flammen]

I guess, and it's no more than a guess, that a D2 requesting a Prov C will end up with a CE prov if processed from Nov 15th. The gamble is in when to post your forms.

I will try and get more information, but it's a struggle!

Pete S

Appreciate the input either way!

[stu675]

So reverse & un/couple test must be passed before attempting the on road driving test .....

Is that going to be an issue for some trainers Pete

I dont see that as a problem - quite the opposite. Folks will get their reverse etc out of the way and then concentrate solely on the drive.

An additional bit of detail: only one attempt at 3a is allowed each day. So no multiple quick fire attempts until it goes correctly!

Better trainers say they will be using bodycams to ensure that the test is operated "to the book".

Pete

So Pete, it's open to abuse basically.

Sent from my SM-T976B using Tapatalk

Anyone know a trainer who won't be using a body cam?

[mitch.102]

hi all need some advice i am having a carer change
im in my mid 50s had enough of my job so i have started the process of learning for class 2 at a local hgv training center
i have payed my money up front and they have booked me in to a medical on 3rd nov they have sent me my d4 and d2 to fill in and hand it in on my medical
so at the moment im swotting my theory at home on my laptop my idea was to try and get a class 2 job for 12 months then take my class 1
so is it a bad time to have my medical and send my d4 and d2 off at the moment not sure as i am new to this game any advice would be appreciated
thank you

[Pete S]

is it a bad time to have my medical and send my d4 and d2 off at the moment

It is absolutely the right time to have your medical. As for sending the forms to Swansea, bear in mind that you need them to be processed from November 15th (assuming you want CE). Unfortunately, some forms are processed virtually by return whilst others can take several weeks. To be safe, hold on to just before 15th. But if you're a gambler, send them earlier.

Sorry that's not very helpful - but it's as good as it gets at the moment.

Pete S

[stu675]

Firstly at the stage you are at, I presume you now want to go straight to CE without C first? It's what I'm doing, I was booked for a course from the 8th and C test 12th nov I have rebooked 14th Feb, hopefully that will be brought forward
I don't think think the physical forms will change that quickly so I would do as Pete says.

[mburt 80]

Firstly at the stage you are at, I presume you now want to go straight to CE without C first? It's what I'm doing, I was booked for a course from the 8th and C test 12th nov I have rebooked 14th Feb, hopefully that will be brought forward
I don't think think the physical forms will change that quickly so I would do as Pete says.

So you have cancelled your November C test and rescheduled to February? I take it you are going to send your license off on or around 15th November to get your C+E provisional entitlement?

That is quite a gamble man lol - hope it works out

[stu675]

So you have cancelled your November C test and rescheduled to February? I take it you are going to send your license off on or around 15th November to get your C+E provisional entitlement?

That is quite a gamble man lol - hope it works out

Exactly. I've started working with my C1, and looking around class 2 jobs are not always paying anymore, I spoke to my trainer and they'll do my class 1 for £500 over and above, when I was expecting £1500 for my second training and test.

I can understand you still going for class 2 first if it's paid for.

[mburt 80]

So you have cancelled your November C test and rescheduled to February? I take it you are going to send your license off on or around 15th November to get your C+E provisional entitlement?

That is quite a gamble man lol - hope it works out

Exactly. I've started working with my C1, and looking around class 2 jobs are not always paying anymore, I spoke to my trainer and they'll do my class 1 for £500 over and above, when I was expecting £1500 for my second training and test.

I can understand you still going for class 2 first if it's paid for.

Ah ok, well in that case I totally agree lol.

I haven't drive anything bigger than a Luton tbh mate, so I am quite happy doing the C first- just to get an eye in if nothing else hahaha

[MDW]

Any advice for people in my situation?
My Cat C training starts this coming weekend. My cat C test is on Tuesday.
My guess is, even if I wanted to change things, I probably couldn't at such late notice. I'm a little perplexed in what to do. Anyone who's gone through the application process this year has been on a bit of a rollercoaster ride already. I don't particularly want to go through the hassle of applying for my provisional C+E. With this in mind my head says carry on regardless and learn from the experience. Hopefully it will put me in a good position for when I do C+E.
Your thoughts please.

[bugger.lugs]

Any advice for people in my situation?
My Cat C training starts this coming weekend. My cat C test is on Tuesday.
My guess is, even if I wanted to change things, I probably couldn't at such late notice. I'm a little perplexed in what to do. Anyone who's gone through the application process this year has been on a bit of a rollercoaster ride already. I don't particularly want to go through the hassle of applying for my provisional C+E. With this in mind my head says carry on regardless and learn from the experience. Hopefully it will put me in a good position for when I do C+E.
Your thoughts please.

I start my Cat C tomorrow and my test is next week also. I'm just cracking on anyway. The changes mean nothing to me.

I'll do my C+E at some point in the future.

[stu675]

Any advice for people in my situation?
My Cat C training starts this coming weekend. My cat C test is on Tuesday.
My guess is, even if I wanted to change things, I probably couldn't at such late notice. I'm a little perplexed in what to do. Anyone who's gone through the application process this year has been on a bit of a rollercoaster ride already. I don't particularly want to go through the hassle of applying for my provisional C+E. With this in mind my head says carry on regardless and learn from the experience. Hopefully it will put me in a good position for when I do C+E.
Your thoughts please.

What are you doing for work now?
Do you have C1 already?

Like bugger.lugs says, I think I would carry on if you think you could use your C test for work fairly soon.

At the end of the day the new regime is saving something like £1k over 2 separate tests, you could earn that in 2 weeks work and we are still a month or two away from being able to be booked onto a "straight to CE" course.

Maybe the saving is not as much as a Grand? and I am booked on the earliest straight to CE which is 4 months away! ( hopefully it will be brought forward )

[MDW]

What are you doing for work now?
Do you have C1 already?

I already have C1 & C1E through Grandfather rights.
I currently work as a field based traveling
rep. The price is obviously a part of my concern, It's also the knowing an easier path to C + E is available so soon after my test date. A part of me can't help feeling doing C will be a waste of effort. I know the official line is to carry on with the current training program. It's one of those situations where I don't know what to do for the best. Pros and cons either way.

[mburt 80]

Any advice for people in my situation?
My Cat C training starts this coming weekend. My cat C test is on Tuesday.
My guess is, even if I wanted to change things, I probably couldn't at such late notice. I'm a little perplexed in what to do. Anyone who's gone through the application process this year has been on a bit of a rollercoaster ride already. I don't particularly want to go through the hassle of applying for my provisional C+E. With this in mind my head says carry on regardless and learn from the experience. Hopefully it will put me in a good position for when I do C+E.
Your thoughts please.

Do what I'm doing, just crack on as normal. Like you say, this year has been strange to say the least, and you are going to be heavily delayed if you wait till after 15th imo. Plus, after you get your C just go to work till you get your C+E.

I can understand wanting to wait, but as your C is so close, then just crack on mate.