Scrapbook Memories

[ParkRoyal2100]

Hi Larry Kawasaki z650? Cheers Ray

I'll pay that.

[Spardo]

Thanks Gingerfold, I was almost sure there was a connection there. Also your mention of Crossley, another Australian connection that I mentioned in the Heavy Haulage thread the other day. When I worked in the Queensland back country I used to travel to work on a Crossley railmotor, a Crossley coach body re-mounted on railway running gear. Exactly the same as a bus but the driver had no steering wheel. I have never managed to find a photo though, even on an Australian railway forum.

Where abouts were you working? I'll try to track down the gen on it, if not a photo. Do you recall the fleet number, RM?? ?

Wow, now you're asking, over 60 years ago now.
I worked for the MRD near Sarina, south of Mackay, so it wasn't there because I was given a caravan to live in, so it might have been near Ayr, south of Townsville. Again, accommodation included, I lived with 4 other blokes in a very rural old house while cane cutting, the most likely candidate. I also had a job working in a sugar mill but can't remember exactly where. I was given a high sided Bedford tipper to run within the site disposing of 'gas'. This is a fine dust, a by product from the factory, and I just ran half a mile to tip it in a massive field where it burned slowly all the time.

Take your pick, somewhere between Mackay and Townsville. Years later I was really surprised that no-one on an Australian rail forum could ID the machine.

[Star down under.]

I'll give it my best shot, David.

[Spardo]

I'll give it my best shot, David.

The only clue I have is that it was definitely in the cane fields area, a pretty long shot I reckon. :
It was very strange seeing a 'bus' driver with nothing to do with his hands in between gear changes.

[Star down under.]

David, reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
RM 28, later renumbered RM 16 is the only fleet number that appears in a search, including Crossley. The odd thing, that was an Inspection Car/General Manager's personal car. It was an International truck chassis with a Napier car body mounted. Queensland Rail bought a number of petrol powered AEC truck chassis, that were converted to rail motors. Most of these were later converted to Gardner power.
By the mid 50s to the 60s, the Red Rattlers (RMs) were superseded by the 1800 class, stainless steel with royal blue trim front and rear, 1900, stainless steel with royal blue trim front, rear and sides and 2000 class, polished stainless steel.
Is it possible that your charabanc was operating on the 2' gauge, cane train network?
We're you working at the Farleigh Mill?

[Buzzer]

Sunday collection, Buzzer

[Spardo]

David, reliable information seems to be hard to come by.
RM 28, later renumbered RM 16 is the only fleet number that appears in a search, including Crossley. The odd thing, that was an Inspection Car/General Manager's personal car. It was an International truck chassis with a Napier car body mounted. Queensland Rail bought a number of petrol powered AEC truck chassis, that were converted to rail motors. Most of these were later converted to Gardner power.
By the mid 50s to the 60s, the Red Rattlers (RMs) were superseded by the 1800 class, stainless steel with royal blue trim front and rear, 1900, stainless steel with royal blue trim front, rear and sides and 2000 class, polished stainless steel.
Is it possible that your charabanc was operating on the 2' gauge, cane train network?
We're you working at the Farleigh Mill?

As you will have guessed, my memory is sadly lacking on this subject, but there is at least 1 thing of which I am certain. Definitely not the narrow cane gauge, this was to me the normal standard gauge which I think was common in Queensland at the time (I think by the 60s the states might have all been unified because I travelled on the Aurora express sleeper from Melbourne to Sydney and don't remember being woken up in the middle of the night by my carriage being lifted from one chassis (Vic, broad) to another (NSW, standard) at Albury, which used to be the case before). Plus this line was not part of the canefields setup, it was a separate one serving the general population of all the small stops along the way.

The other thing is that I have never heard of Farleigh Mill, but then when I was cutting cane I wasn't actually at a mill of course. I can't even remember the name of the mill that I did work at with the Bedford tipper, which was a different place and time. I now believe that that mill must have been within reasonable striking distance of Townsville because I spent my weekends at a house I rented with a mate near the beach there. How I got back and forth I don't remember, not by railmotor though and probably collected and re-delivered by my mate who had a Ford ute, and he, a brickie in a state that hadn't yet really discovered bricks, was not working. He was offered work in the back country building with blocks and needed a mate to come with him labouring as part of the package, but we declined (too far from the beach ).

From what you say above I wonder if one or some of the AECs were rebadged as Crossleys for some reason. I must have seen a Crossley badge or at least name for it to be in my memory. I remember it being dark in colour so perhaps Royal Blue would chime with that.

I can only offer passage of time and extreme age as an excuse for my vagueness. I am now thinking that, although the vehicle and its running gear are firm in my memory, I may have used it on a few occasions travelling out to jobs while registered at the Mackay Labour Exchange, rather than a daily run to work once a job was found. This is because of my various accommodations. At Sarina I had a site caravan, at the mill with the Bedford I had a room on site and, when cutting cane we had an old house in a section of the fields. Not in danger of the flaming fields because we were cutting raw cane for supply to the lab for testing. Not such hard or dirty graft (burnt cane) as the cane gangs but in many ways harder because raw sugar cane is covered in tiny hairs (called hairy Mary, burnt off before harvesting) which got on the skin and was a terrible irritant.

Sorry, lots of useless disjointed meanderings and no hard facts to go on.

Edit: Just had an extensive read about gauges in Australia and what I said about unification by the '60s was complete rowlocks, it apparently took much longer, even into this century. However, I am immovable on the non canefield gauge of the railmotors in Queensland.

[Star down under.]

David, I seem to have led you astray a little. The 1800s were the last of the Red Rattlers, by 1960 they would have been on borrowed time, these were AECs, photo below.

300px-Railmotor93.jpg (22.32 KiB) Viewed 1747 times

The 1900s were Stainless with blue trim, some lacked the blue on the sides. These were introduced in the mid 50s. They were also AECs, but had problems with the gearbox. Photo below.

250px-RM_1901_waits_under_looming_skies_at_Texas_station,_Queensland,__1991.jpg (22.46 KiB) Viewed 1743 times

From 1959 the 2000 class superseded the 1900s. These were also AECs, fitted with SCG of Coventry four speed gearboxes. Photo below.

250px-2034atRSTsqaure.jpg (25.5 KiB) Viewed 1747 times

Your railcar must've been an 1800, as all other Red Rattlers would've been retired by 1960. Details of each individual unit would have varied as they were modified to fill their differing roles.
I fully empathise with your hazy recollections, who are you?

[Spardo]

David, I seem to have led you astray a little. The 1800s were the last of the Red Rattlers, by 1960 they would have been on borrowed time, these were AECs, photo below.

The attachment 300px-Railmotor93.jpg is no longer available

The 1900s were Stainless with blue trim, some lacked the blue on the sides. These were introduced in the mid 50s. They were also AECs, but had problems with the gearbox. Photo below.

The attachment 300px-Railmotor93.jpg is no longer available

The attachment 300px-Railmotor93.jpg is no longer available

From 1959 the 2000 class superseded the 1900s. These were also AECs, fitted with SCG of Coventry four speed gearboxes. Photo below.

The attachment 300px-Railmotor93.jpg is no longer available

Your railcar must've been an 1800, as all other Red Rattlers would've been retired by 1960. Details of each individual unit would have varied as they were modified to fill their differing roles.
I fully empathise with your hazy recollections, who are you?

Not sure you led me astray, but we have certainly been at some sort of cross purposes. None of those pictures look anything like what I travelled on. They look like trains to me, whereas what I rode looked just like a single decker bus coming down the road, with an interior engine but the Crossley radiator plainly in view, no fairing of any kind. And certainly no extra carriages towed behind. The driver sat next to his engine and the passenger entry was at the front, just like a bus. You paid the man and then took your seat as he took off to all intents and purpose just as in a lorry or a bus, but with no steering wheel. 3 pedals, gear lever and handbrake, but no steering wheel. He drove with his hands in his lap except when changing gear.

If you can imagine this but without the half cab and wheels and with the entry door at the front. The engine hump was not so high probably because the whole body was set higher on the rail bogies. I was not familiar with Crossleys which is why I know for certain it was one, because how else would I have known without seeing it written across the top of the rad? I can't find a better picture on Google, maybe the one I saw was a complete one off and rarity.

Crossley single decker.jpg (32.23 KiB) Viewed 1720 times

Were you around at the time, and where were/are you?

[Star down under.]

I was around, but a bit too young to be taking too many notes of my surroundings.
I grew up in Brisbane and Redcliffe, but as an adult lived and worked in FNQ and the Gulf, later in WA's Pilbara and Kimberly.

Try this one.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4 ... n__=%2B%3D

[Spardo]

Thanks for the link SDU, very interesting, I suppose the one on the left here is the nearest to 'mine', without the angled corners and trailer of course.

Except of course it won't allow me to copy it. It was an RM 70 uploaded by Anthony Winstone in 1970.

[Buzzer]

Lovely bright sunny Monday morning, Buzzer

[Dipster]

[quote="Star down under."]I was around, but a bit too young to be taking too many notes of my surroundings.
I grew up in Brisbane and Redcliffe, but as an adult lived and worked in FNQ and the Gulf, later in WA's Pilbara and Kimberly.

Nice place to grow up. Queensland is my favourite State.

[Kempston]

I like Dexter’s Atki, only a bit of rope front and rear with nothing in between.

[Star down under.]

David, you should be able to download this one. It's obviously an AEC, but I'm wondering if it was nicknamed Crossley.

Dipster, that's why we call it Godzone.

[Spardo]

David, you should be able to download this one. It's obviously an AEC, but I'm wondering if it was nicknamed Crossley.

images (55).jpeg

Dipster, that's why we call it Godzone.

Of course I don't need to, because it was only to show you and now you have shown me.
But yes, that is the closest we are going to get I reckon, but as I said before, without the angled corners and with the door opposite the driver.
But definitely not an AEC. I knew AECs very well having driven a 6 wheeler for Wimpey on the M1 contract and also did the majority of my journey to Oz overland as far as Karachi sharing the driving of a 1956 Regent (I think) bus, so there is no way I would have mistaken that triangular badge if it had one. On the other hand I knew nothing about Crossleys other than the infamous Crossley tenders that the Black and Tans used in Ireland during the war of independence. I suppose it could have been a re-badged AEC in the fashion of the day sometimes with overseas sales which allowed me to spot the LAD cabbed AEC Mustang in the Territory beforehand.

As regards favourite States, I suppose Queensland has to come high on the short list, but I suppose it depends on what I was doing in each one which colours the decision. NT, not a state of course, was my first love I suppose with its easy going (lawless?) ways and the world of road trains which it opened up to me. WA meant little as I was only in and out at the extreme top end near Kununurra and Wyndham. SA I barely saw driving through from the NT border to Victoria but reputed to be a favourite of Brits. Victoria, definitely not but there again just personal experience. After being dropped just inside the border by my 2 mates heading home from Buntines I hitched into Melbourne intending to look up a mate, Pete, from the overland bus. I walked down an east/west street towards the building where he worked and then turned a corner southwards. I was promptly almost cut in half by an icy blast straight from the Antarctic and turned on my heel straight to the rail station to book my ticket for the night sleeper to Sydney. NSW became where all my best mates were, on various odd jobs, living in a boarding house and then finally after studying hard, on Yellow Cabs. Great times those were and I was touched by the large group that came to the airport when I decided to go back to Blighty for a holiday. Only later did it occur to me that maybe they just wanted to make sure that I got on the bloody plane.

And so to Queensland, ruled with an iron fist they told me by a bloke called Bjelke-Petersen, though I knew little of that.
Apart from the jobs already mentioned a favourite time was with my mate Brian in the house rented near the beach in Townsville. Beachcombing for 5 days Sunday to Thursday then intense studying of form early till late on Friday. We had all the form books and the Courrier newspaper from Brisbane and concentrated on one meeting, the sand track in Brisbane (you'll no doubt remind me of the name ) each Saturday. Part of the task was to listen to endless commentaries of previous races. With no TV in the north in those days we recorded all the Saturday races and studied them intently. The system was to double the stake after every loss and go back to the lowest after each win. We didn't make a fortune but it did keep us in fruit and veg (he was a veggie as I discovered when I opened our giant fridge and saw my few cans of corned beef shoved aside by an avalanche of pineapples and cabbages ) and enough petrol to get us to the drive-in every Saturday night. Also maybe a few stubbies along the way. So yes, you could say QLD was a favourite.

[Star down under.]

David, when were you in Australia, particularly Queensland? Bjelke Pedersen didn't become Premier until 1968.

[Spardo]

David, when were you in Australia, particularly Queensland? Bjelke Pedersen didn't become Premier until 1968.

After arriving in Darwin I worked in the NT and then eventually to Sydney where I had trouble finding a decent job partly because NSW wouldn't accept my NT heavy licence (there were many one day wonders, painting fences, flipping pigs in an iron foundry, running beer from Reches (sp?) brewery down to the trains at Darling Harbour, Yellow Express parcels etc. etc.) so I finally volunteered to go to Israel for the 6 day war. So that would be '67. Refused a free flight because of their excitement when they thought I had said 'crane driver' when I had in fact said 'road train driver' (if I'd know they wanted people to unload Yank tanks at Tel Aviv docks but didn't need truck drivers, I'd have said crane driver, how hard can it be?), so I headed north jumping trains and hitch hiking to Mackay. So I reckon around '67/'68 arriving in Queensland. Took no interest in politics but kept hearing people going on about B-P. I think he was a bit right wing wasn't he? Must have spent a year or more there before returning to Sydney.

[ParkRoyal2100]

David, when were you in Australia, particularly Queensland? Bjelke Pedersen didn't become Premier until 1968.

After arriving in Darwin I worked in the NT and then eventually to Sydney where I had trouble finding a decent job partly because NSW wouldn't accept my NT heavy licence (there were many one day wonders, painting fences, flipping pigs in an iron foundry, running beer from Reches (sp?) brewery down to the trains at Darling Harbour, Yellow Express parcels etc. etc.) so I finally volunteered to go to Israel for the 6 day war. So that would be '67. Refused a free flight because of their excitement when they thought I had said 'crane driver' when I had in fact said 'road train driver' (if I'd know they wanted people to unload Yank tanks at Tel Aviv docks but didn't need truck drivers, I'd have said crane driver, how hard can it be?), so I headed north jumping trains and hitch hiking to Mackay. So I reckon around '67/'68 arriving in Queensland. Took no interest in politics but kept hearing people going on about B-P. I think he was a bit right wing wasn't he? Must have spent a year or more there before returning to Sydney.

David, it's Resch's ("The Beer We Drink Round Here") - their ales were always an acquired taste . I'm enjoying the conversation btw you and "Star down under", all before my time cos I only turned up here in 1988. They haven't thrown me out yet either.

[ParkRoyal2100]

Just to add a little something to the Australian rail-car convo, here's a couple of snaps I took of a '30s NSW 'Rail Pay Bus'. Originally designed and built by Waddington (Granville, Sydney) in the 30s as railbuses for use on branch lines in Central Western NSW, these had petrol powered 221cu in (3.6l) Ford V8s and were built on truck chassis. The experiment failed and all six were converted for use as paymaster's vans, and apparently were used all over the NSW rail network right up till the late 60s.

Photos taken at the NSW Rail Museum at Thirlmere (NSW), a place well worth a visit if you're in that neck of the woods, especially on Steam Days.

[Buzzer]

Another sunny morning, Buzzer

[Spardo]

Just to add a little something to the Australian rail-car convo, here's a couple of snaps I took of a '30s NSW 'Rail Pay Bus'. Originally designed and built by Waddington (Granville, Sydney) in the 30s as railbuses for use on branch lines in Central Western NSW, these had petrol powered 221cu in (3.6l) Ford V8s and were built on truck chassis. The experiment failed and all six were converted for use as paymaster's vans, and apparently were used all over the NSW rail network right up till the late 60s.

8460846190_21b87579b1_c.jpg

8459745299_52f0dda5ec_c.jpg

8460843434_174935fe63_c.jpg

Photos taken at the NSW Rail Museum at Thirlmere (NSW), a place well worth a visit if you're in that neck of the woods, especially on Steam Days.

That is really interesting, PR, although it is a Ford and not exactly the same thing but the principle is there, a forward control bus on rails. Do you remember where the passenger entrance was, was it in the normal place at the front, opposite the driver?
Just out of interest though, what part of it failed? Obviously not the vehicle itself as they were used for the next 30 years, so was it passenger resistance for some reason?

[Buzzer]

Two new trucks, one Australian the other is ours in the old colours, Buzzer

[Star down under.]

David, when were you in Australia, particularly Queensland? Bjelke Pedersen didn't become Premier until 1968.

After arriving in Darwin I worked in the NT and then eventually to Sydney where I had trouble finding a decent job partly because NSW wouldn't accept my NT heavy licence (there were many one day wonders, painting fences, flipping pigs in an iron foundry, running beer from Reches (sp?) brewery down to the trains at Darling Harbour, Yellow Express parcels etc. etc.) so I finally volunteered to go to Israel for the 6 day war. So that would be '67. Refused a free flight because of their excitement when they thought I had said 'crane driver' when I had in fact said 'road train driver' (if I'd know they wanted people to unload Yank tanks at Tel Aviv docks but didn't need truck drivers, I'd have said crane driver, how hard can it be?), so I headed north jumping trains and hitch hiking to Mackay. So I reckon around '67/'68 arriving in Queensland. Took no interest in politics but kept hearing people going on about B-P. I think he was a bit right wing wasn't he? Must have spent a year or more there before returning to Sydney.

David, it's Resch's ("The Beer We Drink Round Here") - their ales were always an acquired taste . I'm enjoying the conversation btw you and "Star down under", all before my time cos I only turned up here in 1988. They haven't thrown me out yet either.

You came for expo and never left, or sentenced to the term of your natural life? We will find you.

[essexpete]

Lovely bright sunny Monday morning, Buzzer

What would be in the shallow boxes with the two men up on the loaf. I am surprised they could stand on the.

[Buzzer]

Lovely bright sunny Monday morning, Buzzer

What would be in the shallow boxes with the two men up on the loaf. I am surprised they could stand on the.

Blew it up and used a magi glass and it looks like it was canned produce of some sort & it was 3 shillings a go, Buzzer

[Buzzer]

Wednesdays wonders, Buzzer

[Buzzer]

Todays input, Buzzer

[windrush]

The Slaters pic brings back memories from 1976 when I sat in the lecture room on the first floor in the building behind the Foden doing my HGV training, it was February and I lodged in Pickering for two weeks and did my driving and test in Scarborough. The building is still there as I passed it last year. I think that Arthur Slater was still alive then, he had lost an arm driving in the Monte Carlo Rally but ran a fine transport company although they were changing over to Volvo's ( ) by that time. Slaters came out of the Tilling Group of companies soon after. Staying in the same digs as me were the lads who were rebuilding the North Yorks Moors railway, I remember it being blooming cold!

Pete.

[J.F.G]

Todays input, Buzzer

The Waterworths Bedford 1389KD was a Liverpool based fruit and vegetable merchant, long since gone.

Regards

John