Was listening to a piece on the radio about the mini budget and with everything that has gone on (ie lower taxes for the well off, crashing the pound, tanking the pension market, screwing the bond rates etc etc) its sort of gone unnoticed that the “Retained EU Law Bill” has been given a date and will come into effect from December 2023.
What does this mean? It means that automatically all workers rights bills to do with EU law will cease and to continue they will have to be put forward and voted on through Parliament individually.
Some favourites for the chop are…
The Working Time Directive. I understand that not many are fans and they’re not exactly aligned with our drivers hours but to me anything that limits your time at work is a thumbs up from me. Remembering the WTD is primarily a social thing to prevent people being forced to spend too much time at work…
But wait… there’s more.
TUPE is in for the bin. The result being that retained workers will migrate from any existing, maybe (usually) better terms and onto whatever the new company offers.
The agency workers regulations, primarily known for parity pay (and terms) is also included. Its reasonably self explanatory what will happen here…
There’s more too but I’ve sort of tried to pick out the ones we’d come across most often in this industry. Paid holiday is worth a shout but its included in the WTD as the original legislation was repealed and then replaced by what is also about to be repealed.
So yeah, not looking great. Bear in mind that here is an opportunity to tip the balance back towards any employer that I’m sure the government will gladly grab with both hands and say “it’s good for business” or whatever…
Don’t gaf about WTD as in this industry it is a fallacy,.a ‘seeing to be doing the right thing’ excercise but with no substance thanks to poa.
As for workers rights, they were here long before the ■■■■ EU reared it’s ugly head, worker s rights were fought hard for and achieved by our Grandfather 's generation with the advent of Trade Unions in the early 20th century.
However a number of things eradicated them in the last 30 or so years. Thatcher with her selling off of worker’s council homes so they had no stomach for a strike due to mortgages, and the anti union propaganda after the miner’s strike taught in schools and blanket coverage by the media which was all swallowed up by the next generation of workers.
So we have the divide and conquer scenario which was intentional,.where working people are condemning unions and in many cases have become subservient robots who will put up with and conform to any old sh…a great example is this industry that we are all in.
So there you have it as Freddie Mercury once said.
WTD try and find a single procecution in the UK for it. Rob Roy has it right, a prior generation fought for their rights, but were united, which unfortunately has been diluted.
Then add Sheep mentality generated through media BS, and a lack of individuals thinking for themselves, and looking at what was being fed to them, and seeing it for what it was and is, latest agenda is removing the ability to protest by publishing stories of extreme and most likely goverment funded muppets, that are gluing themselves to roads etc, causing mass anger and lack of foresight, and allowing laws to be created that eventually erode yet more abilities to keep things fair, helped by by an immediate gratification mentality now in place, instead of looking ahead.
Workers rights dont come through Law, but people standing united, and that’s the real issue, of how easily they devide us, just look at brexit, some are still rattling on about it, rather than focus on current issues to unite against, because their still arguing about past decisions, same as racial devide, gender devide, etc etc… all fuelled by media BS… because too many sheep today… if an individual calls out nonsense their named and shamed for it lol…
If history repeats wouldn’t worry about workers rights, as a World War usually comes next… types like Hitler gaining power due to mass poverty and sheep mentalities…
Nothing to do with drivers not believing in unions ( I don’t ) , this is simply to do with brexit , those who voted for it are now reaping what they sowed , but it seems it’s not there fault it’s everyone else’s , there’s a suprise
TonkaBoy:
WTD try and find a single procecution in the UK for it. Rob Roy has it right, a prior generation fought for their rights, but were united, which unfortunately has been diluted
True.
Not a single employer prosecuted for asking too much of workers.
Not one fine for expecting compulsory overtime, at risk of the sack.
None fined for workers doing excessive hours.
Without it an employer can tell a worker to carry on longer.
If they refuse they could be sacked. They no longer have the law behind them.
How many companies do you know that decided NOT to opt /sign out their workers from the WTD I bet not many.All down to workers prepared to work o/t for extra cash and companies needing work done.
A lot of the so called EU Rules where in place long before the EU stuck their noses in.
Not if you let the Gov take existing laws away they won`t !
Our employment laws are some of the poorest in the EU. The Gov wants to make them worse.
The race to the bottom is accelerating.
TonkaBoy:
Then add Sheep mentality generated through media BS, and a lack of individuals thinking for themselves, and looking at what was being fed to them, and seeing it for what it was and is, latest agenda is removing the ability to protest by publishing stories of extreme and most likely goverment funded muppets
Almost.
.
Those who mostly own the media tell us stories.
These same people also fund the Tory party.
The Tories arent there to help workers, they are there to help the rich. The media is there to help the Tories help the richest. . It isnt the Gov funding lying media, it is a small number funding both the media and the Gov.
toonsy:
TUPE is in for the bin. The result being that retained workers will migrate from any existing, maybe (usually) better terms and onto whatever the new company offers.
I was never a fan of this. I’ve known a few people who got TUPE over. (Usually they have a choice of taking a pay off or moving over) There is a time limit though, so your under existing conditions for usually like 1 year or 2 then they can cut your money.
toonsy:
The agency workers regulations, primarily known for parity pay (and terms) is also included. Its reasonably self explanatory what will happen here…
I have yet to work for an employer that pays me less than the full-timers. Usually I am on a few £ more an hour.
Franglais:
Our employment laws are some of the poorest in the EU. The Gov wants to make them worse.
The race to the bottom is accelerating.
I’m right there with you on that. I clearly remember the 1980’s, being told "You’re all working late tonight, the door’s not locked, but if you leave before I’ve said you can, don’t come back tomorrow morning"
Good original post Toonsy, you’re right, it covers a massive area, 2,400 pieces of retained EU law, across 300 policy areas and 21 sectors of the economy gov.uk/government/news/the- … -bill-2022
I can see this is going to cause a diametric split in the TN member-base: those of us who want a life outside of work will see loss of WTD etc as a bad thing; those who rage against the machine for ‘being forced to take breaks’ or being limited from working all the hours available, will be ■■■■-a-hoop (for a short while).
We’ve already seen the Government’s attitude to driver’s hours during covid - immutable laws suddenly “relaxed” when it suits officaldom. And what was Boris’s “solution” to the debt incurred by the Furlough Scheme? He would look at scrapping the Sunday hours laws so shops could open longer hours.
It’s not hard to imagine the Charles-ian/Truss era will be marked by a return to “traditional Tory values” ie Victorian values, with the working public firmly where they belong, cap-in-hand.
HGV driving I think will be disproportionately affected: an industry sector where unionization does not (meaningfully) exist, a workforce that (traditionally, IME) would more far more rapidly stab each other in the back than contemplate “sticking together”, plus lots of inexperienced new drivers willing to take a poor wage “to get the experience”. Not to mention the ever-increasing legislation in what must surely be one of the most heavily legislated sectors of the economy.
Many members of this board will have been glad to see that the IR35 Reforms, which rolled into the public and private sectors in 2017 and 2021 respectively will no longer apply from April 2023. Instead, the original rules will remain, and contractors will be responsible for assessing their own tax.
A poignant illustration of where our economy is heading: the Queen committed herself to a life of service to her country, this year we had two bank holidays to commemorate her reign, then a third to mark her passing.
A fellow TM posted in a TM FB group, asking how companies were dealing with the unexpected Bank Holiday, more than a few railed against it, one particularly obnoxious, self-styled entrepreneur character said this:
Bank holidays cost business owners thousands of pounds straight from their bottom line, there will be an 11th one this year for coronation too. They have a negative impact on GDP when the country is already [zb]'ed. Not to mention the queen herself was a stoic ‘keep calm and carry on’ attitude. I think people can pay their respects, be respectful, grieve, watch the funeral coverage and ensure a days business takes place, and those that feel strongly they need a day off can do so unpaid or use holiday. It should not be employers who consistently foot the bill for 3 additional bank holidays in one year.
The OP responded with these sentiments, which I am completely in agreement with: England and Wales have the fewest number of Bank Holidays in Europe, usually we have eight a year compared to average of 12.8 across the rest of the EU (China have 18). Other country’s economies consistently outperform ours (Germany, for example). Even Italy is outperforming us right now with lower inflation. I’d suggest your approach to Bank Holidays and their effect on the UK economy could stand some revision.
If our workers rights are the poorest in europe…by which is meant the european union…so how come we don’t make anything any more and all the previous industrial/factory areas have been re designated as warehousing for chinese made crap and production has been moved to other eu countries.
To hear some of you anyone would expect we still have dark satanic mills employing children not yet in puberty paid bare subsistence wages running around barefeet with only a fair chance of making middle age.
Juddian, basically because you can’t equate “workers” with “manufacturers”.
Admittedly, this graph is from 2018, the more recent stats are only (AFAICS) only provided as a tables or datasets, and that’s not as helpful as a graph.
As we can see, Manufacturing is #6 on the list, retail is #1.
To paraphrase the old slur on Brits, (usually attributed to Napolean’s dismissal of the threat from the British military) “We are a nation of shoppers”
Juddian:
If our workers rights are the poorest in europe…by which is meant the european union…so how come we don’t make anything any more and all the previous industrial/factory areas have been re designated as warehousing for chinese made crap and production has been moved to other eu countries.
Where has production gone?
Production has gone where there is a more productive workforce.
Now don`t jump to conclusions!
The UK is unproductive.
Not as the arch-Muppets, Truss/Rees-Mogg/Kwarteng say, because Brit workers sit around on tea breaks.
(I suspect that some merely say that, but that Truss actually believes it too!)
It is because UK industry has not invested in plant and machinery. It is cheaper to employ bodies here because they can be put on zero hours contracts, sacked on a whim, paid a pitance on the dole. No need to invest in high tech.
This has been the trend for years. International “investors” are not encouraged through taxation to re-invest here. They are allowed to cash in profits. Those profits are re-invested where they are more tax efficient…in EU countries.
In another country the same company will be investing more in new plant. Jobs are exported.
When the ERG were talking of making the UK more competitive, they didn`t mean by asking for more cash for investment. They meant by making UK labour even cheaper.
The only economist they could find to support their viewpoint actually said that it was to be expected for the UK to lose manufacturing and farm production…
I guess it is all going according to plan then.
Juddian:
If our workers rights are the poorest in europe…by which is meant the european union…so how come we don’t make anything any more .
We’re the world’s fifth largest manufacturing nation.
To hear some of you anyone would expect we still have dark satanic mills employing children not yet in puberty paid bare subsistence wages running around barefeet with only a fair chance of making middle age.
Exactly. Paid holidays and restrictions on working hours were first introduced before we’d even fought the Germans the first time around, long before the EU existed to grant us any rights. And all successive governments did over the following century and a bit, whether Conservative, Labour or Liberal, was improve them.
Agency Workers Regulations parity pay rules were a joke. Until Boris Johnson repealed the Swedish Derogation in 2019 which came into effect on 6th April 2020 the agencies had a get out of jail free card they were able to use to get around paying parity pay, the Swedish Derogation which stated as long as agencies paid workers a minimal amount when there was a week with no work - 8hrs in many cases - that they didn’t have to pay parity pay. I had just 3 weeks in all the time the AWR was in effect where I wanted to work and had no work and that Swedish Derogation cost me about £80k.
Talking of agency pay before the EU Freedom of Movement descended upon us in scale in 2014 agency workers always used to get paid more than permanent but a flood of Eastern European migrants happy to work for agencies for minimum wage ended that. Given the demands there are for agency workers currently due to there being more job vacancies than people looking for work I can’t see agency wages going down.
Conor:
Until Boris Johnson repealed the Swedish Derogation in 2019 which came into effect on 6th April 2020 the agencies had a get out of jail free card they were able to use to get around paying parity pay, the Swedish Derogation which stated as long as agencies paid workers a minimal amount when there was a week with no work - 8hrs in many cases - that they didn’t have to pay parity pay. I had just 3 weeks in all the time the AWR was in effect where I wanted to work and had no work and that Swedish Derogation cost me about £80k.
The Swedish derogation cost you £80K over ten-ish years? Wow, that`s a lot.
I bet you`re mad at the people who enabled the UK to get out of the EU rules in 2011?
I when I posted about the WTD I used to start with (silly WTD ) I can not think of any thing as daft as the silly WTD, Dozy when you blame Brexit I see why you picked the name .I started 73 so just before the introduction of the spy in the cab, we now have the super spies digi tacho and driver facing camera,s along with trackers ,and longer hours…I still think the tachograph had more to do with getting every second out of the driver and very little to do with safety or the powers that be would have reduced the hours worked as with the silly WTD there was no real hours reduction just the use of POA what a joke that is.with a log book and none of the other (safety) stuff one could always make sure you could take all the advantages to be gained.We have a situation where folks a running courses and inventing gadgets and signs ect a new industry has been spawned where they do better than the people in the transport industry.
As for the know alls that say we make nothing what about nissan in Sunderland…I a few years we will rule the world when all the talent from the boat people computer experts surgeons ,scientists ect are put to good use
